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[magomago]

I don't think the K200D is water sealed. You need a K20D, or a K10D. the K200D is just the K10D in the old K100D body IIRC. What you get for the K20D though is just amazing.
As for batteries - I've taken 400 consecutive shots with SR turned on with some high powered MAHAS and I never ran out of juice ~ I ran out of memory card space first
And in all honesty...shoot RAW, not JPG Yes it takes more memory, but the ability to do WB correction on the fly using any (free or not) raw editor, as well as grab some more highlight information is always welcome when post processing.
As for the high ISO quality - you have to know that Pentax and Sony both do it VERY differently...almost diametric opposites in that regard. Sony likes to crank up the NR a lot - the image doesn't have as much noise but it is more smeared and you lose detail. Pentax only sprinkles NR on its photo so the results capture more detail, but at the expense of more noise. I prefer less applied NR b/c I enjoy the details - if I want i can apply some NR on my own. Other people I know who are more casual and don't want to spend time dealing with that prefer an image with less noise even if it is more smeared. Go look at low light shots (iso1600 or higher) on both cameras and you'll see it pretty clearly!

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: magomago
I don't think the K200D is water sealed.

it's weather sealed, but i don't know if i'd wash it under a faucet like people have done with their olympus E-1s.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: magomago
I don't think the K200D is water sealed.

it's weather sealed, but i don't know if i'd wash it under a faucet like people have done with their olympus E-1s.

Ah, my mistake =) I've been spending more time shooting than i have reading on the latest cameras

That would be nice to be able to wash a camera under the faucet...too bad Oly sales seem to be tanking

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: magomago
I don't think the K200D is water sealed. You need a K20D, or a K10D. the K200D is just the K10D in the old K100D body IIRC. What you get for the K20D though is just amazing.
As for batteries - I've taken 400 consecutive shots with SR turned on with some high powered MAHAS and I never ran out of juice ~ I ran out of memory card space first
And in all honesty...shoot RAW, not JPG Yes it takes more memory, but the ability to do WB correction on the fly using any (free or not) raw editor, as well as grab some more highlight information is always welcome when post processing.
As for the high ISO quality - you have to know that Pentax and Sony both do it VERY differently...almost diametric opposites in that regard. Sony likes to crank up the NR a lot - the image doesn't have as much noise but it is more smeared and you lose detail. Pentax only sprinkles NR on its photo so the results capture more detail, but at the expense of more noise. I prefer less applied NR b/c I enjoy the details - if I want i can apply some NR on my own. Other people I know who are more casual and don't want to spend time dealing with that prefer an image with less noise even if it is more smeared. Go look at low light shots (iso1600 or higher) on both cameras and you'll see it pretty clearly!

You are shooting a K20D?

What's SR?

Edit: OK, Shake Reduction.

I have 8 Maha Powerex 2300 mah, and they've made my Samsung V3 Digimax P&S (which uses SD, BTW) far more than a usable camera. 400 shots I don't get, but well over 100 generally, and I always use the top settings and shoot JPEG, and the files come out around 1.5 MB. The camera will shoot RAW (actually TIFF, is that the same thing?) but I haven't experimented with it yet. What's the relative size? How many RAW shots can you get on, say, a 4 MB card?

That Samsung digicam evidently produces far superior pictures than my sister's Canon SD750 Elph, comparing many shots we took in the same conditions last weekend. The pictures were outdoors in the sun and her shots with highlights from the sun all had a haze surrounding the highlights that was very annoying. My shots had almost none of that.

I have no intension of shooting under water but it would be nice to be able to wash a DSLR under the faucet!

And what's WB correction?

Edit: Um, White Balance!

Where can I find high ISO photos for both the Sony's and the Pentax's to compare?

Like I said, I got a chance to look at and hold the Sony A200 and A350 yesterday, also the XSi, XTi, D40, D80. But neither the Circuit City nor Best Buy in Emeryville, CA had any Pentax's. I would really like to have a chance to handle the Pentax's.

 

[ElFenix]

pentax is hard to come by in chain stores. even the fry's around here don't seem to carry them anymore. you should try a dedicated camera store.

 

[Heidfirst]

In order to really compare high ISO output you would have to have shots taken at exactly the same time, under the same conditions, with the same lens & that's unlikely to happen but it wouldn't surprise me if the Pentax JPEG engine is better at high ISO.
the A200/A300 & K200D all use the same Sony sensor afaik so if you shoot RAW then the high ISO performance between any of the 3 should be pretty indistinguishable.

If AF performance is a consideration to you then Sony have better AF than Pentax.

Whilst the Sony uses a Sony Nimh battery (& it will come with 1) all their bodies & grips take the same 1 (certainly not true of Canon & Nikon not sure about Pentax) which I find to be very good on battery life & similarly all Sony bodies take CF (again CaNikon don't, not sure about Pentax) & that means that if you upgrade you can carry both of those over to your new body.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
pentax is hard to come by in chain stores. even the fry's around here don't seem to carry them anymore. you should try a dedicated camera store.

Thanks. A local one was highly recommended to me (The Looking Glass, IIRC, in Berkeley). I'll have to go in there soon! People seem to be saying (Amazon reviews) that the K200D is bigger and heavier than its competition but feels better made, plus the weatherproofing. In body shake reduction seems like a very nice feature. I haven't determined what people are using for wireless flash with it. It may be limited to Pentax flashes. People seem pretty high on the kit lens. Just about everybody who reviewed it was more or less a DSLR newbie, though.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: Heidfirst
In order to really compare high ISO output you would have to have shots taken at exactly the same time, under the same conditions, with the same lens & that's unlikely to happen but it wouldn't surprise me if the Pentax JPEG engine is better at high ISO.
the A200/A300 & K200D all use the same Sony sensor afaik so if you shoot RAW then the high ISO performance between any of the 3 should be pretty indistinguishable.

If AF performance is a consideration to you then Sony have better AF than Pentax.

Whilst the Sony uses a Sony Nimh battery (& it will come with 1) all their bodies & grips take the same 1 (certainly not true of Canon & Nikon not sure about Pentax) which I find to be very good on battery life & similarly all Sony bodies take CF (again CaNikon don't, not sure about Pentax) & that means that if you upgrade you can carry both of those over to your new body.

I've never shot RAW. My current P&S shoots JPEG and TIFF, and I experimented yesterday finally with TIFF, taking 4 shots in what is for me typical conditions. The ~10 MB files appear no better than the JPEGs, no sharper certainly. I presume I can do more with them in terms of processing, but I'm not really into that yet. I crop, have done some manipulations occasionally with brightness, contrast, maybe a few other things with run of the mill freebie image editing software that came with my scanners and P&S camera. I have Photoshop now and will have to start exploring it.

I presume that by improved AF performance with the Sony you are referring to the speed. Or maybe accuracy, I don't know. The Pentax is supposed to be decent AF-wise. The Pentax uses AA batteries and they evidently include rechargeable lithium AA's and a charger. Reports from users of the Pentax indicate pretty good battery life, a lot better than I'm used to with my P&S. The biggest downside to the Pentax for me, used to a fairly compact P&S these days (or any DSLR, but especially the Pentax K200D) is the sheer size and weight. With batteries and memory card it weighs 690g (24.3oz.).

 

[Heidfirst]

Originally posted by: Muse

I've never shot RAW. My current P&S shoots JPEG and TIFF, and I experimented yesterday finally with TIFF, taking 4 shots in what is for me typical conditions. The ~10 MB files appear no better than the JPEGs, no sharper certainly.

RAW files straight out of the camera should be softer as they won't have been processed to the same extent by the camera. However, they are ultimately more flexible & capable of yielding higher quality results with post-processing.

I presume that by improved AF performance with the Sony you are referring to the speed. Or maybe accuracy, I don't know. The Pentax is supposed to be decent AF-wise.

both afaik. Pentax AF performance is certainly behind CaNikon & Sony, not sure about Oly but I suspect that the latest Olys' AF are better than Pentax.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: magomago
I don't think the K200D is water sealed. You need a K20D, or a K10D. the K200D is just the K10D in the old K100D body IIRC. What you get for the K20D though is just amazing.
As for batteries - I've taken 400 consecutive shots with SR turned on with some high powered MAHAS and I never ran out of juice ~ I ran out of memory card space first
And in all honesty...shoot RAW, not JPG Yes it takes more memory, but the ability to do WB correction on the fly using any (free or not) raw editor, as well as grab some more highlight information is always welcome when post processing.
As for the high ISO quality - you have to know that Pentax and Sony both do it VERY differently...almost diametric opposites in that regard. Sony likes to crank up the NR a lot - the image doesn't have as much noise but it is more smeared and you lose detail. Pentax only sprinkles NR on its photo so the results capture more detail, but at the expense of more noise. I prefer less applied NR b/c I enjoy the details - if I want i can apply some NR on my own. Other people I know who are more casual and don't want to spend time dealing with that prefer an image with less noise even if it is more smeared. Go look at low light shots (iso1600 or higher) on both cameras and you'll see it pretty clearly!

You are shooting a K20D?

What's SR?

Edit: OK, Shake Reduction.

Nah, K100D

I have 8 Maha Powerex 2300 mah, and they've made my Samsung V3 Digimax P&S (which uses SD, BTW) far more than a usable camera. 400 shots I don't get, but well over 100 generally, and I always use the top settings and shoot JPEG, and the files come out around 1.5 MB. The camera will shoot RAW (actually TIFF, is that the same thing?) but I haven't experimented with it yet. What's the relative size? How many RAW shots can you get on, say, a 4 MB card?

RAW and TIFF is not the same thing. RAW is just data that can be made into an image, TIFF is an actual image. Different formats.

On a 4MB card, I won't get a single RAW shot I use 2 gig SD cards, and I get around 250 shots or so - could be a little more or a little less. I don't remember exactly - I do remember that Pentax apparantly doesn't compress its RAW images so the files are pretty big

That Samsung digicam evidently produces far superior pictures than my sister's Canon SD750 Elph, comparing many shots we took in the same conditions last weekend. The pictures were outdoors in the sun and her shots with highlights from the sun all had a haze surrounding the highlights that was very annoying. My shots had almost none of that.

Maybe DR is bigger on the V3? I dunno. I do know the SD line is made for compactness - not necessarily image quality. Comparing my friends many SD cameras, the images often look "hazy" and a little dull - but I'm not looking at any calibrated monitors so I don't know how much weight that holds in absolute terms. Check a site like dpreview to see if the range is smaller than what usually exists.

I have no intension of shooting under water but it would be nice to be able to wash a DSLR under the faucet!

Olympus FTW

Where can I find high ISO photos for both the Sony's and the Pentax's to compare?

check out dpreview.com for the Pentax and sony dslr reviews~ they like to compare the two together although with oly and canon. Be careful though...because they take images (the coin one for example) that really isn't indicative of real world photography. It still gives a general gauge though.

Like I said, I got a chance to look at and hold the Sony A200 and A350 yesterday, also the XSi, XTi, D40, D80. But neither the Circuit City nor Best Buy in Emeryville, CA had any Pentax's. I would really like to have a chance to handle the Pentax's.

try a ritz. careful though and close your ears to anything they say - i've found their opnions to be uprofessional and flat out inaccurate. The one I took my friend to (i wanted him to find out what grip he liked the most) had a K100D and a K10D but no K200D or K20D. It should still give a general idea as I don't think the body was totally redesigned.


As far as flashes, ther is the AF360 and the 540. I have the 540. I'm not a flash expert, but some people don't like PTTL and shoot only in M. I really don't know, because I'm not a flash expert


As for AF....if you plan to do sports, don't take Pentax. Each system has its strengths and weakness, and while people seem to have coped with it well, its generally accepted that AF speed while not terribly slow, is pentax's weak point

 

[GoSharks]

Originally posted by: Muse
I presume that by improved AF performance with the Sony you are referring to the speed. Or maybe accuracy, I don't know. The Pentax is supposed to be decent AF-wise. The Pentax uses AA batteries and they evidently include rechargeable lithium AA's and a charger. Reports from users of the Pentax indicate pretty good battery life, a lot better than I'm used to with my P&S. The biggest downside to the Pentax for me, used to a fairly compact P&S these days (or any DSLR, but especially the Pentax K200D) is the sheer size and weight. With batteries and memory card it weighs 690g (24.3oz.).

The K200D does not come with rechargeable lithium AAs or a charger (these in fact do not exist as AA replacements). It does come with single use lithium AA batteries though.

I do not have any complaints about the autofocus of the K200D. I have it paired with the DA* 16-50mm f/2.8 lens though, and that is an entirely different beast than the kit lens.

Most of the Pentax AF "complaints" are centered around speed in very low light/contrast conditions. Accuracy has never been a problem IME through the *ist DS, K10D, and K200D (actually they all use the same AF sensor system, different drive system between the *ist and K series).

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: GoSharks

Originally posted by: Muse
I presume that by improved AF performance with the Sony you are referring to the speed. Or maybe accuracy, I don't know. The Pentax is supposed to be decent AF-wise. The Pentax uses AA batteries and they evidently include rechargeable lithium AA's and a charger. Reports from users of the Pentax indicate pretty good battery life, a lot better than I'm used to with my P&S. The biggest downside to the Pentax for me, used to a fairly compact P&S these days (or any DSLR, but especially the Pentax K200D) is the sheer size and weight. With batteries and memory card it weighs 690g (24.3oz.).

The K200D does not come with rechargeable lithium AAs or a charger (these in fact do not exist as AA replacements). It does come with single use lithium AA batteries though.

I do not have any complaints about the autofocus of the K200D. I have it paired with the DA* 16-50mm f/2.8 lens though, and that is an entirely different beast than the kit lens.

Most of the Pentax AF "complaints" are centered around speed in very low light/contrast conditions. Accuracy has never been a problem IME through the *ist DS, K10D, and K200D (actually they all use the same AF sensor system, different drive system between the *ist and K series).

Steve's Digicams says it does come with "Rechargeable Li-Ion Battery D-LI50:"

In the box:

* K200D Body
* USB Cable I-USB17
* Video Cable I-VC28
* Rechargeable Li-Ion Battery D-LI50
* Battery Charge Cradle D-BC50
* Camera Strap O-ST53
* Hot shoe Cover FK
* Eyecup FO
* Body Mount Cover
* Finder Cap for ME
* Focusing Screen LF-80 Frame Matte
* 4 AA Lithium batteries
* Software CD-ROM S-SW74


That's not the same as rechargeable AA's, granted, but it is Lithium Ion and rechargeable. I presume it gives more shots than a couple of NiMH AA's.

 

[GoSharks]

Steve's Digicams is wrong. The D-LI50 is the battery for the K10D/K20D.

I have a K200D.

What's in The Box

K200D Body (19541) or K200D w/18-55mm Lens Kit (19554), USB Cable I-USB17 (39233), Video Cable I-VC28 (39262), Strap O-ST53 (39323), Hotshoe Cover FK (31040), Eyecup FO (30147), Body Mount Cover (31016), Finder Cap ME (31011), Software CD-ROM S-SW74, AA Lithium Batteries (4)

http://www.pentaximaging.com/p...ubsection--digital_slr