What is it with the $ tanking against the ? these days?

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BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: Craig234
Wild speculation is that there may be a move in anticipation of countries like China buying less US debt - something that's reportedly already quietly started.

It seems a pretty clear picture that the old saying 'power tends to corrupt' was followed when the US got power after WWII to be the dominant global currency, and then proceeded to spend so far beyond its means so as to move from the world's biggest creditor to the biggest debtor and run the risk now of crashing even further.

Nothing like 'narrow short-term interests' getting to hijack the nation's political system for the purpose of enabling bad economic policies that benefit them.

You have to be kidding me? Me and Creig agree on something?


You just described bailing out the auto unions down to the letter!

Haha, well played.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,029
2
81
Originally posted by: Evan
Americans know what they want and in many cases what they need. The fringe loonies who don't vote with either party are, frequently, the most poorly educated and ignorant. Comes with being a conspiracy theorist.

1. Are you saying independents are worse voters than those who vote down the party lines? If not, what exactly are you saying?

2. WTF does "conspiracy theorist" have to do with anything I mentioned above?
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
271
136
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: Evan
Americans know what they want and in many cases what they need. The fringe loonies who don't vote with either party are, frequently, the most poorly educated and ignorant. Comes with being a conspiracy theorist.

1. Are you saying independents are worse voters than those who vote down the party lines? If not, what exactly are you saying?

No I'm not.

2. WTF does "conspiracy theorist" have to do with anything I mentioned above?

The fact that you link/visit Lew Rockwell's web site and link/listen to anything Peter Schiff has to say.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,029
2
81
Originally posted by: Evan
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: Evan
Americans know what they want and in many cases what they need. The fringe loonies who don't vote with either party are, frequently, the most poorly educated and ignorant. Comes with being a conspiracy theorist.

1. Are you saying independents are worse voters than those who vote down the party lines? If not, what exactly are you saying?

No I'm not.

Then, if I may repeat myself, what exactly are you saying?

2. WTF does "conspiracy theorist" have to do with anything I mentioned above?

The fact that you link/visit Lew Rockwell's web site and link/listen to anything Peter Schiff has to say.
[/quote]

So libertarianism is a conspiracy theory?

I don't even know why I bother with you.
 

LumbergTech

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2005
3,622
1
0
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: OCguy
Its called Obama printing money.


You print fiat currency, you devalue that currency.

Originally posted by: OCguy
You have to be kidding me? Me and Creig agree on something?


You just described bailing out the auto unions down to the letter!

And how much new money was created when Bush and Greenspan were in charge? You have any idea at all?

Interesting Democracy we have. Two parties, same policies. The people won't do anything to change it. Guess they're getting what they want, eh?

including yourself...or are you planning a revolution i was unaware of?
 
Dec 30, 2004
12,553
2
76
Originally posted by: Carmen813
Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
Originally posted by: Slick5150
Originally posted by: OCguy
Its called Obama printing money.


You print fiat currency, you devalue that currency.

Um, no. It actually has nothing to do with that.

Yes it does. More money in circulation = money worth less.

Only if the money circulates at the same rate.

:thumbsup:
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
86
91
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: OCguy
Its called Obama printing money.


You print fiat currency, you devalue that currency.

Originally posted by: OCguy
You have to be kidding me? Me and Creig agree on something?


You just described bailing out the auto unions down to the letter!

And how much new money was created when Bush and Greenspan were in charge? You have any idea at all?

Bush is no longer running the country. Obama has quadrupled Dubya's deficit. The U.S. is going to have to print money and borrow from China.

At some point you are going to have to stop worshipping the One and realize he is fucking the nation.
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
271
136
Originally posted by: bamacre

Then, if I may repeat myself, what exactly are you saying?

That you're not as intelligent, well educated, or experienced as most people who vote for parties like the Republicans or Democrats, making your original contention bunk to begin with.

So libertarianism is a conspiracy theory?

No, Peter Schiff and Lew Rockwell are for believing the Fed and U.S. gov't have been conspiring for decades (despite administrations on both sides of the political spectrum and multiple different Fed chairmen) to lie and distort inflation for some completely inexplicable reason. Oh, and they both have used Alex Jones to get their message out. They're nuts, that's why no one but fringe nuts takes them seriously (mostly rightwing ideologues).

I don't even know why I bother with you.

Because you know in your heart that I'm probably right, but are too weak to do your own, unique research. After all, it's easier to tout party line nonsense (libertarians are no different than D's or R's in that respect), much harder to spend the years getting educated, getting out in the real world, thinking for yourself, etc.
 

gingermeggs

Golden Member
Dec 22, 2008
1,157
0
71
Originally posted by: Craig234
Wild speculation is that there may be a move in anticipation of countries like China buying less US debt - something that's reportedly already quietly started.

It seems a pretty clear picture that the old saying 'power tends to corrupt' was followed when the US got power after WWII to be the dominant global currency, and then proceeded to spend so far beyond its means so as to move from the world's biggest creditor to the biggest debtor and run the risk now of crashing even further.

Nothing like 'narrow short-term interests' getting to hijack the nation's political system for the purpose of enabling bad economic policies that benefit them.

In a nutshell, the way out is some justice to go down or should I say 'up.
 

gingermeggs

Golden Member
Dec 22, 2008
1,157
0
71
Originally posted by: Firebot
The US is about to put up an extra 100$ billion dollars of treasury bonds by the end of next week. Crude oil is going higher, and the effect of all of the bailout money and stimulus money actually going out on the market is starting to have its effect. In reality, the dollar should never have shot up like it had, it was seen as a safe haven when the stock market plummeted for little reason other then fear. Reality is setting in.

The canadian dollar is at 89 cents now. It went down to 78 cents for little reason, beforehand it was actually at par before the stock crash.

It really is worth more....on paper. If you look at resource assets, canada is #1 and australia is #2 russia/territories is #3. the reason the Usd was worth so much was it has/had alot of private ownership of those resources through corporate holdings and a stranglehold on world finance, funny when the Chinese try the same moves on they are blocked at the sxc through political power, wonder what happens if the B.O.C goes international?
Us access to resource is slowly drying up.
It's like flowers in a vase. I feel it's a good thing to see money "rationalize", high time as it's been arse up for a long time......me luv u longtime!
For the little guy housing will become a viability again in my country at lest-au

The Us has been a faux democracy for a fair while, it's good to see this all unwind.
Hell china is more democratic! if it's about the majorities needs and wishes.....
You(USA) gave the world a lot
'-smith&western, gangsta rap, porno, bourbon and casino!
"goodbye sweet liberty"
you can now start throwing your tomatoes and eggs'
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Originally posted by: gingermeggs
Originally posted by: Firebot
The US is about to put up an extra 100$ billion dollars of treasury bonds by the end of next week. Crude oil is going higher, and the effect of all of the bailout money and stimulus money actually going out on the market is starting to have its effect. In reality, the dollar should never have shot up like it had, it was seen as a safe haven when the stock market plummeted for little reason other then fear. Reality is setting in.

The canadian dollar is at 89 cents now. It went down to 78 cents for little reason, beforehand it was actually at par before the stock crash.

It really is worth more....on paper. If you look at resource assets, canada is #1 and australia is #2 russia/territories is #3. the reason the Usd was worth so much was it has/had alot of private ownership of those resources through corporate holdings and a stranglehold on world finance, funny when the Chinese try the same moves on they are blocked at the sxc through political power, wonder what happens if the B.O.C goes international?
Us access to resource is slowly drying up.
It's like flowers in a vase. I feel it's a good thing to see money "rationalize", high time as it's been arse up for a long time......me luv u longtime!
For the little guy housing will become a viability again in my country at lest-au

The Us has been a faux democracy for a fair while, it's good to see this all unwind.
Hell china is more democratic! if it's about the majorities needs and wishes.....
You(USA) gave the world a lot
'-smith&western, gangsta rap, porno, bourbon and casino!
"goodbye sweet liberty"
you can now start throwing your tomatoes and eggs'

The US still has the largest coal reserves, not to mention the largest lumber, fresh water, and geographically diverse area on the planet. Technology going into shale oil production would also put us far above SA in oil fields.

China is hurting, you can look at any of the real economic reports coming out of there. Credit Suisse recently showed that despite their stimulus, economic activity is falling far faster than anybody even predicted.

The US never had a "stranglehold" on world finance. London has always vied for title and several other centers were very competitive, including Tokyo. What's funny is that people like you parroted the same stuff back in the 80s when Japan was going to rule the world.

What's worse is that China still has massive internal problems to surmount. They don't have enough food or land to feed or house their people. Their population is starting to become dangerously outweighed by men. They have a lack of resources, since they really have no oil, gold, or metal production of their own.

Essentially, they depend 100% on exports. They have no middle class or massive amounts of middle/lower class wealth. Take away exports and they can't even cashflow. They've only been able to do so thus far by artificially keeping their currency low.

Russia. Are you kidding me? Their government is fucked. Their economy is fucked. Their "capitalism" (which is nothing more than a government controlled oligopoly) ignores property rights. Their population is in the death throes of negative population growth, apathy, and alcoholic/drug addled decline. What's sad is that they then took the oil "profits", projected out $100bbl oil forever, and tossed shit-tons of money at the former balkans, which is now falling flat on their asses because oil is well below $100 and the balkans are defaulting on the loans.

What's even more sad is that they, like the Middle East, doesn't invest jack shit into their people to build education, infrastructure, and a future. Instead, they, like the ME, place all of the wealth into the hands of a very flew while the rest of the population goes further into a death spiral.

All you've got left is Canada (limited population, but they're pretty healthy otherwise) and Australia, which is going through their own problems.
 

gingermeggs

Golden Member
Dec 22, 2008
1,157
0
71
yesssss.... china is hurting with only 8% growth this year.
Russia too is growing, despite the comments about social decay- europe is dependant on russian fuel and food supply.
Canada and Australia's biggest problems are how their currencies are undervalued and that "free trade" is US negotiated.
You want to talk about coal? you open cut coal in seams only a meter(3foot, hell get metric nigahs!)
Here coal is in deposits your country could only rub a lamp for Larry Hagman style.
shale oil, wow.....we are now extracting gas from coal(black coal not brown, like ure president!)
The biggest problem for both Canada and Australia would be being "tooled" by the US.
If the led shown by countries like Argentina is followed a happy life for the majority is the final outcome- worker co-operatives, even in the Usa, but just as talk about an oligarchy in the former soviet union, you don't touch on your own backyards mirror of those same problems, hell life for you must be white picket fenchs, a Labrador dog, flapjacks, daisies and Doris Day songs(happy go lucky springs to mind).
Maybe you should wear a sarong on your yacht on Wednesdays?
For the world to change for the better, the Usa must led the way.....and not be ghey!
And what craigie said needs to be sorted out Pronto, this is the "obama test".
Pardon me I do look like Rembrandt, not chopper Reid-good movie for you seppos' to watch-Chopper- the krauts loved it!-both took a knife to their ears and so have I, lucky the knife was blunt in my case!
Nobody likes to think things will be worse for themselves, but hallooo........ welcome to life it's a terminal illness.
Don't get me wrong I don't hate the people, its the system that's all fucked up, I love america's diversity(especially ugly george).
We have a lot of cultural parallels, so a lot of what I say to you now is only self hating.

Seriously, a set of standards need to be applied and your country should be the pioneer of those things, because you got all the s&w's!
In the meantime have fun ol'mate.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
126
Originally posted by: gingermeggs

We have a lot of cultural parallels, so a lot of what I say to you now is only self hating.
Do these words sound like someone else who hangs here to anyone else but me? I thought multiple accounts were verboten.
 
Dec 30, 2004
12,553
2
76
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: gingermeggs
Originally posted by: Firebot
The US is about to put up an extra 100$ billion dollars of treasury bonds by the end of next week. Crude oil is going higher, and the effect of all of the bailout money and stimulus money actually going out on the market is starting to have its effect. In reality, the dollar should never have shot up like it had, it was seen as a safe haven when the stock market plummeted for little reason other then fear. Reality is setting in.

The canadian dollar is at 89 cents now. It went down to 78 cents for little reason, beforehand it was actually at par before the stock crash.

It really is worth more....on paper. If you look at resource assets, canada is #1 and australia is #2 russia/territories is #3. the reason the Usd was worth so much was it has/had alot of private ownership of those resources through corporate holdings and a stranglehold on world finance, funny when the Chinese try the same moves on they are blocked at the sxc through political power, wonder what happens if the B.O.C goes international?
Us access to resource is slowly drying up.
It's like flowers in a vase. I feel it's a good thing to see money "rationalize", high time as it's been arse up for a long time......me luv u longtime!
For the little guy housing will become a viability again in my country at lest-au

The Us has been a faux democracy for a fair while, it's good to see this all unwind.
Hell china is more democratic! if it's about the majorities needs and wishes.....
You(USA) gave the world a lot
'-smith&western, gangsta rap, porno, bourbon and casino!
"goodbye sweet liberty"
you can now start throwing your tomatoes and eggs'

The US still has the largest coal reserves, not to mention the largest lumber, fresh water, and geographically diverse area on the planet. Technology going into shale oil production would also put us far above SA in oil fields.

China is hurting, you can look at any of the real economic reports coming out of there. Credit Suisse recently showed that despite their stimulus, economic activity is falling far faster than anybody even predicted.

The US never had a "stranglehold" on world finance. London has always vied for title and several other centers were very competitive, including Tokyo. What's funny is that people like you parroted the same stuff back in the 80s when Japan was going to rule the world.

What's worse is that China still has massive internal problems to surmount. They don't have enough food or land to feed or house their people. Their population is starting to become dangerously outweighed by men. They have a lack of resources, since they really have no oil, gold, or metal production of their own.

Essentially, they depend 100% on exports. They have no middle class or massive amounts of middle/lower class wealth. Take away exports and they can't even cashflow. They've only been able to do so thus far by artificially keeping their currency low.

Russia. Are you kidding me? Their government is fucked. Their economy is fucked. Their "capitalism" (which is nothing more than a government controlled oligopoly) ignores property rights. Their population is in the death throes of negative population growth, apathy, and alcoholic/drug addled decline. What's sad is that they then took the oil "profits", projected out $100bbl oil forever, and tossed shit-tons of money at the former balkans, which is now falling flat on their asses because oil is well below $100 and the balkans are defaulting on the loans.

What's even more sad is that they, like the Middle East, doesn't invest jack shit into their people to build education, infrastructure, and a future. Instead, they, like the ME, place all of the wealth into the hands of a very flew while the rest of the population goes further into a death spiral.

All you've got left is Canada (limited population, but they're pretty healthy otherwise) and Australia, which is going through their own problems.

This post checks out; all the facts are good.

I still have a feeling people are growing weary of financing our debt. World moving to other places to secure wealth, etc.
 

freegeeks

Diamond Member
May 7, 2001
5,460
1
81
Originally posted by: soccerballtux
Those guys don't have much of an economy, a lot of European states run banks; finance; produce little else. They're dependent on the American economy doing well.

LOL, Germany (80 million people) is the biggest exporting country in the world
 

Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
11,366
2
0
Originally posted by: Evan
Originally posted by: bamacre

Then, if I may repeat myself, what exactly are you saying?

That you're not as intelligent, well educated, or experienced as most people who vote for parties like the Republicans or Democrats, making your original contention bunk to begin with.

So libertarianism is a conspiracy theory?

No, Peter Schiff and Lew Rockwell are for believing the Fed and U.S. gov't have been conspiring for decades (despite administrations on both sides of the political spectrum and multiple different Fed chairmen) to lie and distort inflation for some completely inexplicable reason. Oh, and they both have used Alex Jones to get their message out. They're nuts, that's why no one but fringe nuts takes them seriously (mostly rightwing ideologues).

I don't even know why I bother with you.

Because you know in your heart that I'm probably right, but are too weak to do your own, unique research. After all, it's easier to tout party line nonsense (libertarians are no different than D's or R's in that respect), much harder to spend the years getting educated, getting out in the real world, thinking for yourself, etc.


Evans . Most would agree I have lost my way. I have to say your true blue . You are a outstanding member of the flock. There are only two Flocks that make you educated as to what world policy should be. You stand ontop of history but have not the ability to look back at its course. Evans you are that which leads to destruction. You have taken the ROYAL WE and set it as your code of arms. I feel bad for ya. When the reality of your world comes crashing threw . Your limited intelligance will lead you to Pastures that you richly deserve.

 

Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
11,366
2
0
Sorry this may seem Ot , but it is not. Policy is set by 1 of 2 parties in this country.

Evans you point to haveing more WISDOM than others based on what I am not sure . But let me point out something if I may.

The ROYAL WE Is not the same AS WEthe PEOPLE.

YOU have choosen the Royal WE path.

This Video. Should help ya! It won't change ta. But it shows how little weight your words carry . Even tho those words may be prevailing idealism. I know nothing about Grass Roots . Just good video.

These just average americans . Everyone who is talked to is more intellegent than yourself. Why? Because they KNOW things have gone wrong. and they KNOW real CHANGE is needed . Obama brought nothing more than what we have had under Bush . Now Obama has added to that weight greatly . Our foolish in your Wisdom.

I say everyone of these people is more intelligent than yourself . Because they KNOW . This system is BROKEN .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...xuplSs&feature=related

 
Dec 30, 2004
12,553
2
76
Originally posted by: freegeeks
Originally posted by: soccerballtux
Those guys don't have much of an economy, a lot of European states run banks; finance; produce little else. They're dependent on the American economy doing well.

LOL, Germany (80 million people) is the biggest exporting country in the world

No duh sherlock, I'm talking about the other ones. Czech Republic, Italy, Poland etc.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
The stupid president Mr O'Bamma has been talking about instituting free health care for everyone. The only way he can do this is to borrow more money. Face it, the more money you print by the trillions, the less the dollar is worth. The more time the President of the United States and Chairman of the Federal Reserve talk about how much trouble the USA is in and how we are in a crisis, the less confidence the World has in the USA Dollar. The idiot O'Bamma administration is destroying the US $$$ just the same way as the Bush Administration did. The real issue is the current administration is not doing enough to take responsibility for their actions. O'Bamma administration blames Bush for all of their Spending problems. Then Congress and the House led by Big-Mouth Pelosi is spending money like there is no tomorrow.

The O'Bamma administration needs to change their ways and start to use firm and responsible speech to convince the World that the USA is overcoming the financial problems and quit blaming Bush for everything. Everytime President O'Bamma blames the last administration, the administration is stating that they have no clue or confidence in themselves being responsible or having the ability to overcome the financial problems.

In the long run the poorly run companies will fail and only the strong companies will survive. By allowing the weak poorly run companies to fail, the economy will rebound on its own. However, if we keep bailing out poorly run companies, the pain and misery in the USA will be prolonged even longer.
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
Originally posted by: soccerballtux

This post checks out; all the facts are good.

Could you or LK post me some links. At least on largest lumber, fresh water, and geographically diverse area on the planet part. All my googles point to Canada

Thanks Earl

 
Dec 30, 2004
12,553
2
76
Originally posted by: Orignal Earl
Originally posted by: soccerballtux

This post checks out; all the facts are good.

Could you or LK post me some links. At least on largest lumber, fresh water, and geographically diverse area on the planet part. All my googles point to Canada

Thanks Earl

Hm, I don't know about those so much. To me they don't matter. But basically everything else in the post was correct. We do have the most coal, which you seem to know. Geographically diverse is not hard to believe. None of these matter to me though, it was the other points in the post. I took him at his word for these points you mentioned.
 

Schadenfroh

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2003
38,416
4
0
Originally posted by: Orignal Earl
Could you or LK post me some links. At least on largest lumber, fresh water, and geographically diverse area on the planet part. All my googles point to Canada

Thanks Earl

He may have been comparing the US and China to each other rather than the US to the world.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Originally posted by: Orignal Earl
Originally posted by: soccerballtux

This post checks out; all the facts are good.

Could you or LK post me some links. At least on largest lumber, fresh water, and geographically diverse area on the planet part. All my googles point to Canada

Thanks Earl

You can split hairs between the US and Canada, considering the GLs will make up a huge portion of Canada's fresh water supply. Canada does have far more lumber, but that comparison was more towards China. As far as geographically diverse, Canada doesn't have a desert akin to Arizona/Texas, nor a semi-tropical akin to Miami or the south in general. While it may have more arctic conditions, so does the US with Alaska.
 

gingermeggs

Golden Member
Dec 22, 2008
1,157
0
71
Originally posted by: soccerballtux
Originally posted by: Orignal Earl
Originally posted by: soccerballtux

This post checks out; all the facts are good.

Could you or LK post me some links. At least on largest lumber, fresh water, and geographically diverse area on the planet part. All my googles point to Canada

Thanks Earl

Hm, I don't know about those so much. To me they don't matter. But basically everything else in the post was correct. We do have the most coal, which you seem to know. Geographically diverse is not hard to believe. None of these matter to me though, it was the other points in the post. I took him at his word for these points you mentioned.

Largest deposit-maybe, thats open to further exploration in other countries, but in spread out in fine amounts, either thin seamed or deep down, that is either environmental vandalism to extract or very dangerous for the workers involved and what about bauxite, lead, zinc, nickle, cadmium or uranium? give us some links ones which are non-bias.
My info is first hand from a senior geologist who works all over the world.