What is it with Christianity?

[LumbergTech]

You answer my question, and I'll be happy to address yours.

Well, to answer your question, I would need to know the percentage of income being taken in tax where it becomes stealing.

 

[Red Squirrel]

It's called hypocrisy, and it has nothing to do with religion or the Christian faith, it has to do with self centered, arrogant people who are more concerned with power and politics.

Note that Jesus decried this, and spoke more against the hypocrisy of the Pharisees than any other topic (including money). They were a group who claimed super religiosity, but were more concerned with the external appearance. They loved money, prestige, and power rather than truly being holy before God or practicing true righteousness.

These people you speak of are not true Christians, they just happen to grow up in a Christian atmosphere. If they had to undergo real persecution (i.e. the type that happened during Roman times and happens in other countries today) they would fall away from the faith fast.

Ignorant people who think they are knowledgeable say that religion causes wars, violence, etc. (and I have heard that argument many times here) but really it's just manipulated by evil people just as any other institution (like economic or political ones) can be.

Jesus wasn't involved in politics. He simply preached the gospel and did good works. Anyone following his example (which is what it means to be a Christian, to follow Jesus) wouldn't care about liberal vs conservative politics, but instead preach the gospel and help those who need the most help.

:thumbsup:

 

[Dari]

OP, this is about the best post you can get in four minutes, without us knowing your perspective or motivation for posting the question.

Accordingly,
/thread

Well, he only focused on one part of the OP. he did not address the disdain liberals have for religions or Christ.

 

[sixone]

Well, to answer your question, I would need to know the percentage of income being taken in tax becomes stealing.

I'm interested in what Jesus had to say about taking from someone unwilling to give. Please feel free to quote anything that seems related.

 

[brianmanahan]

I'm interested in what Jesus had to say about taking from someone unwilling to give. Please feel free to quote anything that seems related.

give to cesar what is cesar's

 

[LumbergTech]

I'm interested in what Jesus had to say about taking from someone unwilling to give. Please feel free to quote anything that seems related.

So if someone is unwilling to pay taxes, then it is stealing?

I don't believe that Jesus specifically advocated for taking from the unwilling. I believe that he advocated for not being the unwilling. Which touches on the subject of this thread, which is Christian hypocrisy.

 

[busydude]

It's called hypocrisy, and it has nothing to do with religion or the Christian faith, it has to do with self centered, arrogant people who are more concerned with power and politics.

Note that Jesus decried this, and spoke more against the hypocrisy of the Pharisees than any other topic (including money). They were a group who claimed super religiosity, but were more concerned with the external appearance. They loved money, prestige, and power rather than truly being holy before God or practicing true righteousness.

These people you speak of are not true Christians, they just happen to grow up in a Christian atmosphere. If they had to undergo real persecution (i.e. the type that happened during Roman times and happens in other countries today) they would fall away from the faith fast.

Ignorant people who think they are knowledgeable say that religion causes wars, violence, etc. (and I have heard that argument many times here) but really it's just manipulated by evil people just as any other institution (like economic or political ones) can be.

Jesus wasn't involved in politics. He simply preached the gospel and did good works. Anyone following his example (which is what it means to be a Christian, to follow Jesus) wouldn't care about liberal vs conservative politics, but instead preach the gospel and help those who need the most help.

So I'll treatment of women? Justification of slavery? 50 coins of silver if a man rapes a woman? Women should not think or take decisions on their own? AIDS is bad but condoms are even worse. Baptizing children before they can think rationally. Physical abuse is OK if children do not listen to their parents.

Jesus was certainly interested in an individual's personal life than anything else.

Oh and the picking and choosing of Bible quotes.. at the same time preaching that the Bible is word of God. Yup, nothing to see here people, Jesus was awesome and everything is just fine and dandy.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Lock or move this thread. It belongs in Politics and News

No it does not!! It is niether Political in nature nor is it News.....it`s pure conjecture== OT!!

 

[sixone]

give to cesar what is cesar's

If that means that it's okay to take from unwilling donors, then do you advocate punishing people who don't give anything to "Caesar" - limited, of course, to those who chose not to, and excluding those who can't?

 

[LumbergTech]

If that means that it's okay to take from unwilling donors, then do you advocate punishing people who don't give anything to "Caesar" - limited, of course, to those who chose not to, and excluding those who can't?

The thing that interests me about this debate is the anger of conservatives towards the use of tax to "help the poor". They don't seem to ever get quite as upset about other misuses of tax money as they do when it is used to help the supposedly less fortunate. If they spent a little more time bemoaning the other invalid uses, while at the same time not being so immature as to pretend that we don't need to tax people, I might be able to take their gripes a bit more seriously.

I will side with you to an extent and say that I also don't like my tax money being used for bullshit reasons. War is a great example. I do not wish for my money to be used on war. I am completely against initiating wars such as the Iraq war and my tax money is STILL being used to kill people in other lands in wars that I do not agree with. I agree that tax money is often abused in the name of helping the poor, but I am much more comfortable with my tax money being used on a gamble that it might help someone who deserves it as opposed to assuredly using it to kill people in places across the globe.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

Define's Crono's position as ridiculous, even though Crono didn't take that position.

The bible without historical context is like trying to read Latin without the ability to speak it. some few of the words/ideas are exactly how we use them today most make sense if you understand their etymology some few require a deeper understanding of the context to understand.

Getting a strong handle on what Jesus actually said and how it relates to the old testament takes some earnest study because it's freeking 2k years old! No wonder people (left and right) are so easily lead to believe evil things about the greatest man in history.

 

[sixone]

So if someone is unwilling to pay taxes, then it is stealing?

I don't believe that Jesus specifically advocated for taking from the unwilling. I believe that he advocated for not being the unwilling. Which touches on the subject of this thread, which is Christian hypocrisy.

Yes, it is stealing, using the police power of the state. If you don't donate, the IRS and state revenue departments will come take it from you. They will lock up your bank accounts and assets, and even put you in jail.

 

[sixone]

The thing that interests me about this debate is the anger of conservatives towards the use of tax to "help the poor". They don't seem to ever get quite as upset about other misuses of tax money as they do when it is used to help the supposedly less fortunate. If they spent a little more time bemoaning the other invalid uses, while at the same time not being so immature as to pretend that we don't need to tax people, I might be able to take their gripes a bit more seriously.

My post didn't specifically didn't mention "the poor". What does your response have to do with my question?

 

[sandorski]

Yes, it is stealing, using the police power of the state. If you don't donate, the IRS and state revenue departments will come take it from you. They will lock up your bank accounts and assets, and even put you in jail.

Ridiculous.

 

[Fritzo]

And then, one Thursday, nearly two thousand years after one man had been nailed to a tree for saying how great it would be to be nice to people for a change, a girl sitting on her own in a small café in Rickmansworth suddenly realized what it was that had been going wrong all this time, and she finally knew how the world could be made a good and happy place. This time it was right, it would work, and no one would have to get nailed to anything.

-The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy

 

[LumbergTech]

My post didn't specifically didn't mention "the poor". What does your response have to do with my question?

I apologize if that did not represent your specific viewpoint. I was just explaining my thinking about taxes and what I perceive to be Christian hypocrisy.

 

[sixone]

I apologize if that did not represent your specific viewpoint. I was just explaining my thinking about taxes and what I perceive to be Christian hypocrisy.

That's a better answer than I was expecting, thank you.

So I'll explain it to you. Some of your "less fortunate" have chosen that way of life, and ought not be using the IRS as a weapon to take money from the people who earned it.

I have yet to meet anyone - Christian or otherwise - who doesn't want to help people who really have a need. But no one wants to be taken advantage of, either.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

Perhaps you can point to where Jesus advocated stealing from one group in order to benefit another.

He doesn't;

Some of your "less fortunate" have chosen that way of life, and ought not be using the IRS as a weapon to take money from the people who earned it.

but he does advocate paying your taxes. Further ecc says that governments exist in-order to help protect the righteous from the wicked, Finally Paul says that we should NOT engage in revolution against our governments, but respect their right to rule our bodies (this is just before they killed his ass) and spread the love of Christ through faith.

Also, being less fortunate is, by definition, not a life-choice.

 

[SillyOReilly]

This thread really makes me question my infractions, when it's an infraction in itself.

LOL @ infractions and moderation on ATOT

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I find it ironic that people that commit arson and support vigilante murder care about the moral hypocrisies of others.

 

[sixone]

He doesn't;

but he does advocate paying your taxes. Further ecc says that governments exist in-order to help protect the righteous from the wicked, Finally Paul says that we should NOT engage in revolution against our governments, but respect their right to rule our bodies (this is just before they killed his ass) and spread the love of Christ through faith.

Also, being less fortunate is, by definition, not a life-choice.

That's why I used the phrase as a quotation. Not everyone who is poor is less fortunate, so the two descriptions should not be used interchangeably.

Paul made that statement when the only known form of government was tyranny, either by kings or by Romans. We don't know what he would have said if he'd experienced any kind of democracy. Context is important.

When the safety net is being used as a hammock, it's time to revolt - in the ballot box.

 

[LumbergTech]

That's why I used the phrase as a quotation. Not everyone who is poor is less fortunate, so the two descriptions should not be used interchangeably.

Paul made that statement when the only known form of government was tyranny, either by kings or by Romans. We don't know what he would have said if he'd experienced any kind of democracy. Context is important.

When the safety net is being used as a hammock, it's time to revolt - in the ballot box.

I agree, but I am concerned that neither liberal nor conservatives are presented with options to vote for people who can understand the nuance of helping in a way that is not so easily abused. Politicians are concerned with obtaining power and keeping that power and the true will of the people is not respected no matter how you look at it. I don't agree with many things that are going on now, just as it seems that you do not either, but I think that we (both sides) make the mistake of responding to trigger words and phrases and it ends up that no one gets the results they want. We are stuck simply voting for those who pay lip service to the ideas we support. I think that we must quit taking what they offer at face value and VERIFY that their deeds match their words and that we feel that they are truly representing OUR views as opposed to exploiting our views.

 

[sixone]

I agree, but I am concerned that neither liberal nor conservatives are presented with options to vote for people who can understand the nuance of helping in a way that is not so easily abused. Politicians are concerned with obtaining power and keeping that power and the true will of the people is not respected no matter how you look at it. I don't agree with many things that are going on now, just as it seems that you do not either, but I think that we (both sides) make the mistake of responding to trigger words and phrases and it ends up that no one gets the results they want. We are stuck simply voting for those who pay lip service to the ideas we support. I think that we must quit taking what they offer at face value and VERIFY that their deeds match their words and that we feel that they are truly representing OUR views as opposed to exploiting our views.

Amen, brother. But as long as there are voters who are more interested in taking and not giving, our elected officials will reflect that.

 

[SlitheryDee]

Jesus was rude to his mother.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

Jesus wasn't involved in politics. He simply preached the gospel and did good works. Anyone following his example (which is what it means to be a Christian, to follow Jesus) wouldn't care about liberal vs conservative politics, but instead preach the gospel and help those who need the most help.

I absolutely believe God, or Jesus or Muhammed or etc., absolutely would have spoken out about politics but it would not have been for a side, it would have been to discern how the government can better serve the people because that is the concept behind government.

Jesus was not fortunate, nor any other prophet, enough to have lived in a time where political discourse was allowed or even slightly tolerated. The concept of it's existence was not following with anything they thought was possible. I do firmly believe that any of these people would have debated politics from time to time, but only to try to enlighten the insensitive, egotistical, and narcicistic people who throw beliefs at you to shield you from their actual lack of personality and insight.

Of course I could be wrong.