What is it about being shot that actually kills people?

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: SunnyD
Anyway - just curious why bullets are so deadly.

Turning someone's brain into a wall decoration is pretty deadly.

At least it is in COD4; never tried it in real life.

 

[911paramedic]

Depends on the caliber and speed of the projectile.

A .45 handgun will cause a lot of damage along its (rather wide) path, perhaps severing, puncturing, or rupturing "solid" organs. (solid=liver, spleen, kidney, etc.)
A rifle projectile moves very fast and causes a cone of damage, which can rupture solid organs without touching them.
Armor piercing rounds from an assault rifle will usually simply pass straight through, only causing damage along it's path. (a lesson learned in Somalia)

So, depends on the caliber, bullet composition (hollow point, etc.), speed, and path it takes. Some slower moving projectiles will literally bounce around inside you and tear all kinds of things up.

You can die instantly, or not...

This is all a part of kinematics of trauma. In my practical experience, it was the location of the projectile that killed a person or not. Others made it back (with internal bleeding) for surgery. Simply getting shot is not going to kill you, it depends on a lot of factors.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: SunnyD
Anyway - just curious why bullets are so deadly.

Turning someone's brain into a wall decoration is pretty deadly.

At least it is in COD4; never tried it in real life.

well headshot crime scene photos and war journalism photos are pretty gross compared to what you see in film

 

[Ruptga]

Originally posted by: MrLee

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: daveymark
Large bullets, and small bullets that travel very fast, such as those from an M-16 rifle, can kill almost instantly, mainly by reducing the region of impact literally to hamburger. They also generate something known as "hydrostatic shock." The body is composed largely of water and as such may be viewed as a hydraulic system. Liquid being noncompressible, the shock caused by the high-velocity entry of a large projectile (don't you love this technobabble?) is transmitted throughout the body, causing widespread organ damage and disruption of nervous functions. Even a wound to an arm or leg can be fatal in some instances.

See, THIS is what I'm asking. INSTANT death, as in do not pass go, go directly to the pearly gates...

I know that internal damage to a severe enough level will cause death, and bleeding will cause death - but I'm talking about the people that drop as soon as their hit. Bye bye. Dead.

Bleeding out, well I suppose if something major is hit and you're bleeding out profusely, your blood pressure nosedives and you basically expire. But still, bleeding out should give you a few seconds to gasp your last.

My guess is that movies and videogames play up the instant death aspect. In reality (I think), people don't die right away from gunshots. Often the pain and shock associated with taking a bullet will drop somebody right away, but they'll still be alive on the ground.

I think the true stopping power has been debated for quite some time. Probably on this forum even. A drop to the ground, instannt dead sort of an instance will only occur of the mere shock of the event makes the victim pass out or if there is nerve damage from the bullet penetration.

Stopping power in itself, the stuff that takes someone to the ground immediately, can only be found with a higher caliber hand gun. In all reality, nothing is truely stopping someone from being shot and then continuing on with their actions. In severe incidents, a victim might have enough adreneline pumping throught them that they may not even care enough to stop whatever they are doing.

The stuff that makes them drop all the time? Movies.

Yup, yup, and yup. Short of blowing out an artery or something bullets operate by shock, that's why they often stay in the target, they're made to transfer all their energy into the target. Arrows on the other hand generally go clean through the target, they kill by bleeding them out, so naturally you want it to penetrate as far as possible. Of course sometimes bullets will go clean through (esp. full metal jackets), and sometimes an arrow will stay stuck inside a deer if it nails a shoulderblade or something like that, but those are less than ideal results if your aim is to kill whatever you're shooting at.

 

[judasmachine]

Originally posted by: vi edit
You'd be amazed at what *doesn't* kill you instantly.

My wife has worked some trauma rounds where people have be wheeled into the ED with half their face missing, holes in their head, gutshots with shotguns, ect from failed(at least immediately) suicide attempts and gang shootings.

Most of these are from handguns and less devistating rounds than you would see from high caliber rifles though.

Yeah my old roommate was an EMT, and has seen even suicide attempts where a large part of the cranium and sinus area was missing. Yet the 'victim' survived.

 

[cubeless]

when u watch the 'shoot the water bottle' clips and the 'shoot the sheep' clips it generally points to the greater the hydrostatic shock, the better the "drop 'em" factor is...

lower hydrostatic shock (small calibre) , they have time to bleed to death... middling hydrostatic shock (.40 hollowpoint), they drop from shock... massive hydrostatic shock (headshot with a .50), they just explode...

bigger calibre generally means faster drop...

 

[Jessica69]

Originally posted by: judasmachine

Originally posted by: vi edit
You'd be amazed at what *doesn't* kill you instantly.

My wife has worked some trauma rounds where people have be wheeled into the ED with half their face missing, holes in their head, gutshots with shotguns, ect from failed(at least immediately) suicide attempts and gang shootings.

Most of these are from handguns and less devistating rounds than you would see from high caliber rifles though.

Yeah my old roommate was an EMT, and has seen even suicide attempts where a large part of the cranium and sinus area was missing. Yet the 'victim' survived.

Pretty easy to do....take out your frontal lobe(s), or most brain above the brain stem, and that doesn't guarantee death at all. Blow out your brain stem and you're dead.....no matter what.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: daveymark
Large bullets, and small bullets that travel very fast, such as those from an M-16 rifle, can kill almost instantly, mainly by reducing the region of impact literally to hamburger. They also generate something known as "hydrostatic shock." The body is composed largely of water and as such may be viewed as a hydraulic system. Liquid being noncompressible, the shock caused by the high-velocity entry of a large projectile (don't you love this technobabble?) is transmitted throughout the body, causing widespread organ damage and disruption of nervous functions. Even a wound to an arm or leg can be fatal in some instances.

See, THIS is what I'm asking. INSTANT death, as in do not pass go, go directly to the pearly gates...

The ONLY time you can reasonably expect "instant" death from a bullet is if you hit the person in the head or in the cervical vertebrae (the vertebrae in the neck) and sever the spinal cord, and even then it's not guaranteed.

ZV

 

[Chiropteran]

It's actually the soundwaves from the gunshot that kill you, not the actual bullet. Thats why real-life criminals don't use silencers, in reality a silencer would turn a gun into a non-lethal toy.

 

[rh71]

So women have it right... suicide by gunshot is really a sucky method. Pills are where it's at eh?

 

[mitchel]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: daveymark
Large bullets, and small bullets that travel very fast, such as those from an M-16 rifle, can kill almost instantly, mainly by reducing the region of impact literally to hamburger. They also generate something known as "hydrostatic shock." The body is composed largely of water and as such may be viewed as a hydraulic system. Liquid being noncompressible, the shock caused by the high-velocity entry of a large projectile (don't you love this technobabble?) is transmitted throughout the body, causing widespread organ damage and disruption of nervous functions. Even a wound to an arm or leg can be fatal in some instances.

See, THIS is what I'm asking. INSTANT death, as in do not pass go, go directly to the pearly gates...

The ONLY time you can reasonably expect "instant" death from a bullet is if you hit the person in the head or in the cervical vertebrae (the vertebrae in the neck) and sever the spinal cord, and even then it's not guaranteed.

ZV

Or a large enough bullet that it basically blows off half your body.

Or if you want to suicide, aim for the heart and shoot a couple of times. That's a guarantee death.

 

[Muse]

There was an article in the Sunday section of the S.F. Chronicle's first section a couple of years ago about an emergency room experience at S.F. General Hospital, following it completely. A 14 year old boy caught a bullet from an AK47. He and a group of kids were playing with water balloons and somebody took offense (I guess they got the wrong person wet). That person came back with the gun.

That one bullet came in through the boy's side and tore him up real bad. Several organs were chewed up bigtime. There was major disruption of various kinds. It was nip and tuck whether the kid would survive and they operated on him many many times. He evidently lived. If he didn't move out of the Hunter's Point housing project he was living in, his chances of survival weren't good, though.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: purbeast0
i call shens on you holding a soldering iron for 10 seconds ...

And going into shock because of it.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: SunnyD


I know that internal damage to a severe enough level will cause death, and bleeding will cause death - but I'm talking about the people that drop as soon as their hit. Bye bye. Dead.

Bleeding out, well I suppose if something major is hit and you're bleeding out profusely, your blood pressure nosedives and you basically expire. But still, bleeding out should give you a few seconds to gasp your last.

You don't die that quickly unless you're shot in the brain and maybe the heart. What you see in the movies or TV, especially the older stuff where the person just drops to the floor/ground is just a euphemism.

 

[miniMUNCH]

blood loss... unless it is hits you in the head and/or heart.

Shock is different for different folks... I have broken bones, etc. in the past and never once went into shock even though the pain was extremely intense.

 

[mitchel]

Originally posted by: miniMUNCH
blood loss... unless it is hits you in the head and/or heart.

Shock is different for different folks... I have broken bones, etc. in the past and never once went into shock even though the pain was extremely intense.

Shock is defined as inadequate perfussion. So you can have local shock and systemic shock. Usually though shock happens when you have a heart attack, stroke, or blood loss.

 

[Vic]

Exsanguination.

 

[gamepad]

OP: Pics of scar on your hand to prove it

 

[Gooberlx2]

Blood loss and/or severe damage of the brain or spinal cord can be instant or near instant death. Others may die more slowly from shock, organ failure, suffocation (damaged lung or diaphram), sepsis, etc...

Everything is variable.

 

[rezinn]

It depends on where you are shot. The brain can survive without oxygen for a few minutes, so you don't die immediately if you're shot in the heart and bleed out, although you would be unconscious pretty quickly.

"Shock" is a condition caused by lack of blood volume or flow or a loss of vascular tone (which can be caused by brain injury, anaphylaxis, massive infection). Getting shot can cause any of these except anaphylaxis, depending on where the damage is. And you're right, if you get shot in the brainstem or the heart, you're likely as good as dead. When your tissues don't have oxygen, they die. If you bleed out a few liters and fall unconscious, but are transfused and resuscitated after thirty minutes, you might be perfectly healthy besides being brain dead. So it depends on your definition of death, too.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: MrLee

Stopping power in itself, the stuff that takes someone to the ground immediately, can only be found with a higher caliber hand gun.

Good, we'll tell the army to immediately recall all rifles and start issuing Desert Eagles.



P)

 

[JulesMaximus]

Trauma or blood loss.

 

[judasmachine]

Originally posted by: Jessica69

Originally posted by: judasmachine

Originally posted by: vi edit
You'd be amazed at what *doesn't* kill you instantly.

My wife has worked some trauma rounds where people have be wheeled into the ED with half their face missing, holes in their head, gutshots with shotguns, ect from failed(at least immediately) suicide attempts and gang shootings.

Most of these are from handguns and less devistating rounds than you would see from high caliber rifles though.

Yeah my old roommate was an EMT, and has seen even suicide attempts where a large part of the cranium and sinus area was missing. Yet the 'victim' survived.

Pretty easy to do....take out your frontal lobe(s), or most brain above the brain stem, and that doesn't guarantee death at all. Blow out your brain stem and you're dead.....no matter what.

yeah she never knew what kind of quality of life they had after that, but they survived.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: MrLee

Stopping power in itself, the stuff that takes someone to the ground immediately, can only be found with a higher caliber hand gun.

Good, we'll tell the army to immediately recall all rifles and start issuing Desert Eagles.



P)

Asides from the obvious that rifles are more accurate than large caliber handguns, military weapons are purposely designed to be high-powered small caliber. The intention is to not necessarily to kill, but to wound severely enough to take the soldier off the battlefield, as a wounded soldier uses more of the enemy's resources than one than was killed outright.

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: gamepad
OP: Pics of scar on your hand to prove it

damn, tough crowd!