What is it about being shot that actually kills people?

[SunnyD]

I'm kind of curious as to the most common cause of death due to shooting. The act of being shot can have so many variables, but for some reason I don't think it's simply a bullet in your body and I think the odds of a bullet doing some sort of vital and critical damage on it's own aren't enough for instantaneous death.

My guess - shock? The question is then is it mental shock or physical trauma? I remember when I was young, I had caught a hot soldering iron in my hand as it was falling (instinct to reach out and catch it) - as it burned me my brain slowly registered "HOT!" and after about 10 seconds I dropped it, then for some odd reason went into shock after that (stupid I know - but I believe the shock was due to the mental overload of pain at the time).

Less often I think would be a catastrophic physical damage, like hitting the heart and stopping it or doing enough damage so it no longer functions. Bleeding out from other vital areas, sure, but this wouldn't cause instant death - it'd likely take a minute or so.

Or is it the physical kinetic shock that somehow disrupts a person. A strong enough blow could stop the heart or damage the brain stem or something like that. But I don't think it's likely.

Toxicity of the bullet maybe? But I'm thinking that would take too long to leech into everything, even if the toxicity was due to the gunpowder on the exterior of the bullet.

Anyway - just curious why bullets are so deadly.

 

[Uppsala9496]

Damage to organs or blood loss. Severe an artery and you don't stand too much of a chance unless you get help right away.

My dad was shot 3 times in Vietnam. None of the bullets hit an organ or severed an artery so he made it.

Toxicity isn't an issue. He still has a piece of shrapnel in his knee from 40 years ago.

 

[KB]

Blood loss. I have not seen someone die from a gunshot, but I know people don't die in real life as quickly as they do in the movies. They sit screaming for someone to help until they fall unconscious. All you have to do is watch the Baltimore news to figure this out.

 

[IAteYourMother]

the bullet on impact mushrooms up and takes up bone fragments with it ripping apart the body while going through it.

 

[daveymark]

It depends (in the case of bullets) on how big the bullet is, how fast it's going, and where it hits you. Speed (muzzle velocity) is the most important factor; we learn from physics that kinetic energy, i.e., destructive power, increases arithmetically with mass, but geometrically with velocity. Thus you have more to fear from a rifle than from a handgun. Slow, small caliber bullets, and knives, too, for that matter, rarely kill anybody immediately, unless they sever a major artery or pierce the brain, and even then death often takes several minutes. In most such cases, death results from blood loss, brain damage, or (in long drawn-out cases) from infections such as gangrene resulting from contaminants borne into the body by the bullet or knife. An abdominal wound can result in mortal infection from fecal matter seeping out of the intestines.

Large bullets, and small bullets that travel very fast, such as those from an M-16 rifle, can kill almost instantly, mainly by reducing the region of impact literally to hamburger. They also generate something known as "hydrostatic shock." The body is composed largely of water and as such may be viewed as a hydraulic system. Liquid being noncompressible, the shock caused by the high-velocity entry of a large projectile (don't you love this technobabble?) is transmitted throughout the body, causing widespread organ damage and disruption of nervous functions. Even a wound to an arm or leg can be fatal in some instances.

There are numerous variations on the above, most which are undoubtedly familiar to readers of detective stories. Hollow-nosed bullets, for instance, flatten on impact and bulldoze their way through the body, making death almost certain, since the massive damage they cause is virtually irreparable. I could go on, but you get the basic idea.

Text

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: daveymark
Large bullets, and small bullets that travel very fast, such as those from an M-16 rifle, can kill almost instantly, mainly by reducing the region of impact literally to hamburger. They also generate something known as "hydrostatic shock." The body is composed largely of water and as such may be viewed as a hydraulic system. Liquid being noncompressible, the shock caused by the high-velocity entry of a large projectile (don't you love this technobabble?) is transmitted throughout the body, causing widespread organ damage and disruption of nervous functions. Even a wound to an arm or leg can be fatal in some instances.

See, THIS is what I'm asking. INSTANT death, as in do not pass go, go directly to the pearly gates...

I know that internal damage to a severe enough level will cause death, and bleeding will cause death - but I'm talking about the people that drop as soon as their hit. Bye bye. Dead.

Bleeding out, well I suppose if something major is hit and you're bleeding out profusely, your blood pressure nosedives and you basically expire. But still, bleeding out should give you a few seconds to gasp your last.

 

[sjwaste]

Originally posted by: Uppsala9496
Damage to organs or blood loss. Severe an artery and you don't stand too much of a chance unless you get help right away.

My dad was shot 3 times in Vietnam. None of the bullets hit an organ or severed an artery so he made it.

Toxicity isn't an issue. He still has a piece of shrapnel in his knee from 40 years ago.

In war, at least between signatories to the Geneva Convention (and someone correct me if my facts are wrong), full metal jacketed rounds are the only type to be used for pretty much that reason. The casualty count stays high, but less people die than would if hollow or soft point ammo were used. FMJ, as long as it doesn't hit bone, basically, will pass right through soft tissue. HP/SP, on the other hand, will mushroom on contact with soft tissue and transfer most or all of their energy to the body.

 

[purbeast0]

i call shens on you holding a soldering iron for 10 seconds ...

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: daveymark
Large bullets, and small bullets that travel very fast, such as those from an M-16 rifle, can kill almost instantly, mainly by reducing the region of impact literally to hamburger. They also generate something known as "hydrostatic shock." The body is composed largely of water and as such may be viewed as a hydraulic system. Liquid being noncompressible, the shock caused by the high-velocity entry of a large projectile (don't you love this technobabble?) is transmitted throughout the body, causing widespread organ damage and disruption of nervous functions. Even a wound to an arm or leg can be fatal in some instances.

See, THIS is what I'm asking. INSTANT death, as in do not pass go, go directly to the pearly gates...

I know that internal damage to a severe enough level will cause death, and bleeding will cause death - but I'm talking about the people that drop as soon as their hit. Bye bye. Dead.

Bleeding out, well I suppose if something major is hit and you're bleeding out profusely, your blood pressure nosedives and you basically expire. But still, bleeding out should give you a few seconds to gasp your last.

My guess is that movies and videogames play up the instant death aspect. In reality (I think), people don't die right away from gunshots. Often the pain and shock associated with taking a bullet will drop somebody right away, but they'll still be alive on the ground.

 

[biggestmuff]

There's a decently written paper on the subject that you may find interesting. It's been circling the internet for a while. Google, "Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness". The paper was written by an FBI Special Agent. It's nearing 20 years old, but still contains relevant information.

 

[Lounatik]

Had a friend of mine shot by an irate condo owner, of all things, right in the heart. Literally dead before his head hit the desk. I would imagine the size of the bullet, what type of bullet ( hollow point, exploding tip, armor piercing etc.) where it enters the body and what angle it enters the body have a great deal to do with its lethality. Also, as the bullet enters the body, it takes whatever path it chooses. If it ricochets off of a rib it could lodge in a lung or rupture something else along the way. I've heard that using a slower, small caliber bullet, like a .22 can be just as damaging as a larger, say .45. The reason being that the .22 won't pass through your body, instead it zig zags all around inside like a pinball, tearing up your insides.

Edit: Jeez, I know I type slow, but there was only like 3 responses a few minutes ago!

Peace

Lounatik

 

[vi edit]

You'd be amazed at what *doesn't* kill you instantly.

My wife has worked some trauma rounds where people have be wheeled into the ED with half their face missing, holes in their head, gutshots with shotguns, ect from failed(at least immediately) suicide attempts and gang shootings.

Most of these are from handguns and less devistating rounds than you would see from high caliber rifles though.

 

[skillyho]

Originally posted by: purbeast0
i call shens on you holding a soldering iron for 10 seconds ...

x2

 

[TwiceOver]

The whole bleeding thing kinda sux.

 

[Lounatik]

Originally posted by: vi edit
You'd be amazed at what *doesn't* kill you instantly.

My wife has worked some trauma rounds where people have be wheeled into the ED with half their face missing, holes in their head, gutshots with shotguns, ect from failed(at least immediately) suicide attempts and gang shootings.

Most of these are from handguns and less devistating rounds than you would see from high caliber rifles though.

Check out Humoron and see some vids of people still alive through all sorts of calamity. Not for the squeamish, for sure.

Peace

Lounatik

 

[Jeeebus]

Guns don't kill people...

 

[NanoStuff]

Originally posted by: Jeeebus
Guns don't kill people...

Bullets kill people.

 

[shocksyde]

I blow at quoting. Don't mind me.

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: skillyho

Originally posted by: purbeast0
i call shens on you holding a soldering iron for 10 seconds ...

x2

I think I was about 7 years old, was at my dad's business (which I was there most of the time). My sister was there too. I wasn't paying attention and ended up stepping on the cord of the iron and it pulled out of the holder (it was for some reason close to the edge of the bench), it fell and my first instinct was to catch it - which I did, by the body. Ended up with a huge ass blister on the palm-side index finger on my right hand. The only reason I was able to hold onto it for so long was that I caught it far enough down on the element where it's actually "cooler" (about 300 degrees).

I did tons of stupid shit as a kid - like when I was 2 I played "let's put the car keys in the 120v outlet" game... 3 times in the span of 2 minutes.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

bloodloss, shock, or *boom* head shot.

 

[purbeast0]

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: skillyho

Originally posted by: purbeast0
i call shens on you holding a soldering iron for 10 seconds ...

x2

I think I was about 7 years old, was at my dad's business (which I was there most of the time). My sister was there too. I wasn't paying attention and ended up stepping on the cord of the iron and it pulled out of the holder (it was for some reason close to the edge of the bench), it fell and my first instinct was to catch it - which I did, by the body. Ended up with a huge ass blister on the palm-side index finger on my right hand. The only reason I was able to hold onto it for so long was that I caught it far enough down on the element where it's actually "cooler" (about 300 degrees).

I did tons of stupid shit as a kid - like when I was 2 I played "let's put the car keys in the 120v outlet" game... 3 times in the span of 2 minutes.

yes i've done that too, just one time, and i was not holding it for 10 seconds. it was more like .10 seconds. and i too had a blister.

 

[Mr Pickles]

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: daveymark
Large bullets, and small bullets that travel very fast, such as those from an M-16 rifle, can kill almost instantly, mainly by reducing the region of impact literally to hamburger. They also generate something known as "hydrostatic shock." The body is composed largely of water and as such may be viewed as a hydraulic system. Liquid being noncompressible, the shock caused by the high-velocity entry of a large projectile (don't you love this technobabble?) is transmitted throughout the body, causing widespread organ damage and disruption of nervous functions. Even a wound to an arm or leg can be fatal in some instances.

See, THIS is what I'm asking. INSTANT death, as in do not pass go, go directly to the pearly gates...

I know that internal damage to a severe enough level will cause death, and bleeding will cause death - but I'm talking about the people that drop as soon as their hit. Bye bye. Dead.

Bleeding out, well I suppose if something major is hit and you're bleeding out profusely, your blood pressure nosedives and you basically expire. But still, bleeding out should give you a few seconds to gasp your last.

My guess is that movies and videogames play up the instant death aspect. In reality (I think), people don't die right away from gunshots. Often the pain and shock associated with taking a bullet will drop somebody right away, but they'll still be alive on the ground.

I think the true stopping power has been debated for quite some time. Probably on this forum even. A drop to the ground, instannt dead sort of an instance will only occur of the mere shock of the event makes the victim pass out or if there is nerve damage from the bullet penetration.

Stopping power in itself, the stuff that takes someone to the ground immediately, can only be found with a higher caliber hand gun. In all reality, nothing is truely stopping someone from being shot and then continuing on with their actions. In severe incidents, a victim might have enough adreneline pumping throught them that they may not even care enough to stop whatever they are doing.

The stuff that makes them drop all the time? Movies.

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: purbeast0

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: skillyho

Originally posted by: purbeast0
i call shens on you holding a soldering iron for 10 seconds ...

x2

I think I was about 7 years old, was at my dad's business (which I was there most of the time). My sister was there too. I wasn't paying attention and ended up stepping on the cord of the iron and it pulled out of the holder (it was for some reason close to the edge of the bench), it fell and my first instinct was to catch it - which I did, by the body. Ended up with a huge ass blister on the palm-side index finger on my right hand. The only reason I was able to hold onto it for so long was that I caught it far enough down on the element where it's actually "cooler" (about 300 degrees).

I did tons of stupid shit as a kid - like when I was 2 I played "let's put the car keys in the 120v outlet" game... 3 times in the span of 2 minutes.

yes i've done that too, just one time, and i was not holding it for 10 seconds. it was more like .10 seconds. and i too had a blister.

May not have been 10 seconds... maybe like 5. But it was long enough to hear my flesh "sizzle" before I dropped it.

Edit: Good lord, I've participated in hijacking my own thread.

 

[0roo0roo]

death is from blood loss
from what i've read the reaction to bullets is based on culture and is psychological.
i think when british were fighting some warrior clans in africa early on they had no real experience with guns so they didn't react as much to the bullets and kept coming.

 

[AMCRambler]

It all depends on whether you're going for the head shot or the M-M-M-MONSTER KILL!