what is in a wheel hub.

[T2urtle]

Not a hub assembly with the bearing included. But just the hub itself.

I think i have a bad hub because i had a front wheel wobble. I replaced the wheel bearing only and its still there. The only part that is moving is the axle. Which leads me to believe only 3 items can be bad, CV axle, wheel hub or wheel bearing. Axle nut was tight, just had to make sure of that. CV axle was replaced last year, wheel bearing was just done, i guess i should of done the hub as well. So before assuming one of the newer parts are bad i'm trying to see if the last old part is part.

What is in a hub? Could it cause my wheel to have play. Is there a bearing in there as well? I know it has the studs and a seal but what makes it able to spin freely?

Is there a way to test JUST the hub?

Everything i google/youtube is people mistaking wheel hub as wheel bearings/ assembly.

Can i just pull the hub off with a slide hammer? Or do i need to make another trip to have the hub pressed in.

 

[Bartman39]

Have you considered possibly the wheel itself...? Seen many many bent wheels that people never even notice...? Also a bad tire is or can be in the mix...

Unless the "hub" was bent by either hitting something or was that way from the factory they do not just warp or become bent for no reason... Also the force required to bend a hub would most certainly bend most any rim (wheel)... Want also to hear more about this "wobble" your saying as to how you found or see it...?

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Also want to know how you see/felt/confirmed the wobble..

It could be many things, from a weight falling off of the cv axle to tie rod ends or power steering issues.

+1 on it being the wheel.. maybe you can swap them front/back/side to see if the wobble follows it

 

[T2urtle]

this isn't while in motion. so the thoughts of wheel being bent is out the window.

On the road, everything is all good, smooth and no issues to be noted. Its a 98 maxima with like 135k, mainly all orginal suspension parts minus the axles i put in about 2 years agos and the ES sway bar bushings like 5 years agos. Car has always had a slight pull to the right but that was maybe 4-5 years ago.

I found the WOBBLE while doing an oil change. Since i had the 2 fronts in the air, i checked the tire pressues while waiting for oil to drain. I also do simple suspension play checks and i found pass front to have a small amount of play. I jumped the gun didn't bother to diagosis anything and replaced the bearing. I unbolted the spindle, took to a shop to have to pressed. Bolted it in and still same problem.

I'm out $100 already, $50 for labor and $50 for parts. Now its time to slow my roll and do it right, figuring out whats wrong.

So back to my main question, what allows the hub to spin? It my brother's car, i know its not exactly the best at dodging potholes.


I had my brother wiggle the wheel at 12/6 and 3/9. Wheel would have play/wobble only at the axle. I put a pry bar between the gap of the the balljoint stud and lower part of axle and the play is gone. Thats what leads me to believe it could only be one of 3 things bearing, hub or axle. I stared at the balljoint,tie rod and control arm bushing, nothing moved or flexed.

I dont know much about a hub, other then it spins and the wheel is bolted on and the axle goes thru it. $70 part for a hub.

 

[exdeath]

Strut, control arms, ball joints, tie rod ends, and bushing are the interface between the knuckle and chassis. Only these things can affect knuckle-chassis movement. On the knuckle is pressed the outer race of a bearing, with the hub pressed into the inner race, with optional snap rings. There should be no movement between the knuckle-hub assembly except for rotation. A dial indicator mounted to the knuckle should show insignificant runout at both the edge and front face of the spinning hub.

The axle is just along for the ride, it cannot influence wheel geometry. Bad axle can however cause vibration.

You need to explore for relative movement between any of the above parts. For example if you can "wobble" the wheel, and the wheel, hub, and knuckle all appear to move together as one solid piece, its not the bearing. Your source of play will be between something that moves and something that doesn't. If you can shift a suspension with your bare human hands, it should be easy to find.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

What's the make/model? I want to see what the hub assy looks like

 

[Bartman39]

Wheel would have play/wobble only at the axle.

Sorry not understanding just what you mean right here...? This almost sounds like you got a bad CV shaft/joint...? Also is the nut that holds the CV axle in the hub tight...? It should be impacted on and if not this might be the issue or still the CV joint itself...? This is what is making me wonder if this is what he is seeing as a "wobble"...?

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Most fwd setups the front wheel bearing is replaced as an assembly, with the hub which bolts to your front suspension. The front axle on fwd is a spline that goes through the center of the hub, it's not something that can cause play in the wheel.

http://info.rockauto.com/getimage/g....com/smartpages/partinfo_resize/DUS/20-08.jpg


If you replaced this part then the movement would be somewhere else.. It can be really tough to move your wheel enough by hand to see play in bushings and whatnot.

 

[T2urtle]

Strut, control arms, ball joints, tie rod ends, and bushing are the interface between the knuckle and chassis. Only these things can affect knuckle-chassis movement. On the knuckle is pressed the outer race of a bearing, with the hub pressed into the inner race, with optional snap rings. There should be no movement between the knuckle-hub assembly except for rotation. A dial indicator mounted to the knuckle should show insignificant rumour at both the edge and front face of the spinning hub.

The axle is just along for the ride, it cannot influence wheel geometry. Bad axle can however cause vibration.

That is the same understanding. Now If there is movement in the hub, Where would the problem be at? Either a bad hub, bad bearing or bad press job. So what your saying i can rule out the axle.

If i wiggle the wheel, whatever part is bad would wiggle with the wheel showing play. If the axle is the only item moving its should only be hub related.

What's the make/model? I want to see what the hub assy looks like

1998 nissan maxima

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Your edit where you say the play went away when prying between the axle and ball joint kind of makes me think it might be your lower ball joint.

I've always been able to figure this out with padded crowbars pushing on suspension components but most of it was probably luck. Sometimes it helps if it's unloaded, othertimes it has to be done on ramps.

 

[T2urtle]

Sorry not understanding just what you mean right here...? This almost sounds like you got a bad CV shaft/joint...? Also is the nut that holds the CV axle in the hub tight...? It should be impacted on and if not this might be the issue or still the CV joint itself...? This is what is making me wonder if this is what he is seeing as a "wobble"...?

i'm far from the best at explaining things.

best way to put it.

I jack up one side of the car (pass front). Hand on 3 and 9 oclock postion on the wheel. Give it a soft shake and only thing i see is the axle moving back and fourth less then .5cm

I took a video of this... uploading shortly.

Axle nut is 100% tight and impacted on.

 

[exdeath]

That is the same understanding. Now If there is movement in the hub, Where would the problem be at? Either a bad hub, bad bearing or bad press job. So what your saying i can rule out the axle.

If i wiggle the wheel, whatever part is bad would wiggle with the wheel showing play. If the axle is the only item moving its should only be hub related.


1998 nissan maxima

If the hub moves relative to the knuckle (you can tilt the wheel without the knuckle moving) then the problem can only be the bearing.

Its possible for the bearing pocket to be cracked or loose and the bearing to be sliding in and out against the snap ring or axle extents.

Either way if the wheel,hub, and axle stub are moving laterally but the knuckle isn't, its still a bearing related problem.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

http://www.nicoclub.com/FSM/maxima/1997/FA.pdf

Scroll down to page 8

It's a pressed in assembly, you're right - it could be the person that replaced that bearing screwed it up.. It's a bit more complicated than most hub assemblies where they're replaced as a unit. You could be looking at a new knuckle if there's that much play in the bearing. Or maybe the new bearing is bad.

 

[T2urtle]

http://youtu.be/ZdzHTg_ZjVY

not the best but here is it. I had my brother wiggle the wheel slightly. Only one wheel is jacked up. You can see here that only the axle is moving. Balljoint is rather motionless. When i put a pry bar in that gap, then nothing moves.

So can we all agree aleast that its wheel bearing/hub related only now?

 

[SpatiallyAware]

lol that's awesome, thank you!!

It looks like an issue with the bearing, or the way it was pressed in. FYI I wouldn't be terribly surprised if it was a bad 'new' bearing, so I wouldn't jump on whoever pressed it in just yet.

 

[T2urtle]

1.But you guys are on my boat now, that is should be bearing/hub related and not much more
?

2.So obviously i have some type of warranty on the bearing, should i take the spindle off and warranty the bearing, give it another shot maybe at a different shop. I paid cash on the side for the labor, so i don't think i can warranty much. I could try but its seems too much hassle for possibly nothing or discounted labor.

3. Also thinking, now that i'm removing it the 2nd time, i should get a new hub for $70 and get it all pressed in.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

I would buy a new bearing, since you won't be able to use the old one - and if even if you find another knuckle you'll want to press it in anyway.

Take them to a place that knows about these nissan front bearings and explained what happened. It looks like a fairly specific process, with certain pressure requirements and all that. If the knuckle is damaged I'd get the first shop to replace it, and pay the second shop to press the bearing in.

 

[Bartman39]

Also is the nut that holds the CV axle in the hub tight...? It should be impacted on and if not this might be the issue or still the CV joint itself...?

What I asked earlier... This is what will tighten the assembly up and take out the play you see...

 

[T2urtle]

What I asked earlier... This is what will tighten the assembly up and take out the play you see...

It is tighten with an impact. Confirmed confirmed and confirmed. But hell, i'll check it again tomorrow to see if its on their tight.

 

[exdeath]

Ouch, definitely bearing related. Need to pull the axle off to get a clear view and see if its in the bearing itself or something else in the hub-bearing-knuckle assembly (bearing loose in knuckle etc). The axle movement is irrelevant, you should expect the wheel, hub, and axle to move together since they are all tightly and directly coupled (wheel with lug nuts, axle with splines/nut). Its the wheel moving and the brake caliper and thus knuckle not moving that matters.

BTW both hub and knuckle should be tight press fit, not just the hub. If you slipped the hub/bearing into the knuckle without effort and just bolted the axle down , that would be your first problem.

 

[T2urtle]

BTW both hub and knuckle should be tight press fit, not just the hub. If you slipped the hub/bearing into the knuckle without effort and just bolted the axle down , that would be your first problem.

This is a press bearing. I didn't slip or bolt on anything. I would have no clue how the bearing and hub fitted into the spindle.


My main concern now is, this seems to be the same problem i had before i changed the bearing, so if he didn't screw up my bearing then it would of been a 3rd bearing put in and same problem.

But nothing else CAN be the problem. Well you guys mentioned cracked/broken spindle. Could be, i never checked for damaged.

 

[Bartman39]

It is tighten with an impact. Confirmed confirmed and confirmed. But hell, i'll check it again tomorrow to see if its on their tight.

Ok but before you take it back off (the axle nut) or anything make sure the axle is tight in the hub and the nut is not bottoming out and not pulling the assembly together properly... Very strange the old bearings are doing the same thing as the new ones...? Still makes me wonder about the CV joint assembly...?

 

[T2urtle]

Ok but before you take it back off (the axle nut) or anything make sure the axle is tight in the hub and the nut is not bottoming out and not pulling the assembly together properly... Very strange the old bearings are doing the same thing as the new ones...? Still makes me wonder about the CV joint assembly...?

Will do, and YES 100% agree, i feel something is overlooked.

I did the CV joint last year. Never had any issues with it. It was a local axle rebuilder, gave me lifetime warranty as long as he is in business. I think he gave me a good axle. NO vibrations or any issues. Ball joint, i'm not too sure of, but it shouldn't be my problem. Even if it was bad, As the video showed it wasn't moving.

 

[exdeath]

Forget the axle. Has nothing to do with it.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

At this point I'd probably start looking at replacing the spindle.. I've seen a couple of bearing seats end up cracked after being messed with a couple of times, at this point it's kind of a lost cause plus the peace of mind of having a good bearing seat.