What is fair pay for a teacher?

[burnedout]

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Originally posted by: burnedout

Originally posted by: Medellon
I live in El Paso Texas.

At this very moment, I'm talking with two project managers here in Austin who have a combined total of 30 years classroom experience in Texas ISDs. Another project manager with PhD sits over in a corner.

The questions are: How many years of experience do you have? Do you have a Masters?

And, re: "He says if anything teachers are overpaid because of all the vacation they get and anyone can do their job."

One of the project managers just went off about that remark. Totally uncalled for he said.

It's the truth though. With the standards today, a high school dropout who got his GED could perform the duties of a high school teacher.

With all due respects, Bullsh!t.

Show me a HS dropout with a GED who can effectively teach pre-calculus or chemistry without getting his ass sued by parents.

 

[Thegonagle]

Originally posted by: Medellon
I got in an argument with my manager the other day about the pay a teacher receives. I teach middle school math and bartend at night. He says if anything teachers are overpaid because of all the vacation they get and anyone can do their job. I countered by saying that it takes more than just a college degree(which he doesn't have)to be an effective teacher and we have some brilliant teachers at our school who can't teach to save their lives. I make around 40 grand a year teaching which is okay but wish it were higher. Thoughts?

A teacher shouldn't need to rely on bartending to make ends meet, that's a thought I'm having. Anyone can do it? Not by a long shot, if you ask me.

 

[Mani]

If we paid our teachers any less, our educational system woudl be even more of a disaster than it is now. I imagine there would be a hell of a lot more competent teachers out there if the salary were competetive with jobs in the private sector.

 

[Gunslinger08]

Originally posted by: burnedout

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Originally posted by: burnedout

Originally posted by: Medellon
I live in El Paso Texas.

At this very moment, I'm talking with two project managers here in Austin who have a combined total of 30 years classroom experience in Texas ISDs. Another project manager with PhD sits over in a corner.

The questions are: How many years of experience do you have? Do you have a Masters?

And, re: "He says if anything teachers are overpaid because of all the vacation they get and anyone can do their job."

One of the project managers just went off about that remark. Totally uncalled for he said.

It's the truth though. With the standards today, a high school dropout who got his GED could perform the duties of a high school teacher.

With all due respects, Bullsh!t.

Show me a HS dropout with a GED who can effectively teach pre-calculus or chemistry without getting his ass sued by parents.

My precalc teacher had an associates degree. My chem teacher was "working on" his bachelors. He also got fired at the end of the year for sexual harassing a student. I know that in my area, the teachers aren't really even deserving of the $40k they make.

 

[Ornery]

Cut your expenses then.

Teachers only make as much as they do because of unions. They ought to recieve just what the market will bare. Our teachers only work about 180 days per year, and don't have to pay into Social Security. Once they get tenure, you can't get rid of them.

My dad was a teacher. I KNOW how much they make, and how cushy or hard the job can be.

 

[Thegonagle]

Originally posted by: Mani
If we paid our teachers any less, our educational system woudl be even more of a disaster than it is now. I imagine there would be a hell of a lot more competent teachers out there if the salary were competetive with jobs in the private sector.

Hell yes! Then the bad ones could be weeded out based on the quality of the applicant pool.

 

[Isla]

Originally posted by: Medellon
I got in an argument with my manager the other day about the pay a teacher receives. I teach middle school math and bartend at night. He says if anything teachers are overpaid because of all the vacation they get and anyone can do their job. I countered by saying that it takes more than just a college degree(which he doesn't have)to be an effective teacher and we have some brilliant teachers at our school who can't teach to save their lives. I make around 40 grand a year teaching which is okay but wish it were higher. Thoughts?

Unfortunately, my husband has the same arguments about my pay as your manager does. But when it comes down to it, he could NEVER do what I do. He would run SCREAMING like a little girl from the classroom, never to be heard from or seen again. 😛

A good teacher INSPIRES...

Here's a lovely story that says it all. (Source Unknown)

******************************************

What a Teacher Makes

The dinner guests were sitting around the table discussing life. One man, a CEO, decided to explain the problem with education. He argued:

"What?s a kid going to learn from someone who decided his best option in life was to become a teacher?" He reminded the other dinner guests that it?s true what they say about teachers: "Those who can...do. Those who can?t...teach."

To corroborate, he said to another guest: "You?re a teacher, Susan," he said. "Be honest. What do you make?" Susan, who had a reputation of honesty and frankness, replied, "You want to know what I make?"

"I make kids work harder than they ever thought they could. I can make a C+ feel like a Congressional Medal of Honor and an A- feel like a slap in the face if the student did not do his or her very best."

"I can make kids sit through 40 minutes of study hall in absolute silence." "I can make parents tremble in fear when I call home".

"You want to know what I make?" "I make kids wonder." "I make them question." "I make them criticize." "I make them apologize and mean it." "I make them write." "I make them read, read, read."

"I make them spell definitely beautiful, definitely beautiful, and definitely beautiful over and over and over again, until they will never misspell either one of those words again." "I make them show all their work in math and hide it all on their final drafts in English." "I make them understand that if you have the brains, then follow your heart...and if someone ever tries to judge you by what you make, you pay them no attention."

"You want to know what I make?"

"I make a difference."

 

[Parrotheader]

Originally posted by: KraziKid

Originally posted by: pyonir
All depends on the district/state/city/education/etc. I would say for the most part, they are underpaid.

I agree for the most part. Some teachers in my High School who have been there 15+ years are making $100,000+. This is not underpaid in my opinion for a High School teacher. I personally wouldn't mind becoming one because of all the vacations and the opportunity to mold young minds to be what I want bwahaha 😛.

Where in the world do teachers make this much? Even in an area with an extremely high COL that's VERY good. My wife's a teacher and underpaid IMO. The pay would have to be considerably higher for someone like myself to even think about it. I get paid substantially more than my wife and IMO my job's a lot easier than hers on most days.

I don't know about other parts of the country, but around here summer break is hardly 3 months anymore. It's now just a little over two months. Still a nice break, but not like it was when I was a kid. Plus, my wife usually spends at least 2 weeks of her summer 'vacation' doing required professional development seminars plus another couple weeks of her time doing lesson plans and getting her classroom ready. So her summer break usually ends up being little more than a month. She's not grossly underpaid (we do just fine on a moderate dual income) but I personally think she deserves substantially more for all the crap they have to deal with on a daily basis. She teaches kindergarten and a lot of parents these days look at elementary schools to teach their child everything (in their mind, absolving them of all responsibility) while at the same time they turn around and treat schools like a glorified daycare center. A lot of the parents don't realize that a teacher can only do so much with a young child if the parent doesn't complete the circle by helping their child learn at home. Many parents still do a good job working with their children and you can usually tell which kids these are as they almost always seem to make the most progress by the end of the year.

I don't have the patience to teach kids, but thought about going on to get a PhD to become a college professor. I love the college lifestyle (hours rock) and enjoy research and writing. I'm just not sure if I'd be good classroom teacher though.

 

[tnitsuj]

Originally posted by: Ornery
Cut your expenses then.

Teachers only make as much as they do because of unions. They ought to recieve just what the market will bare. Our teachers only work about 180 days per year, and don't have to pay into Social Security. Once they get tenure, you can't get rid of them.

My dad was a teacher. I KNOW how much they make, and how cushy or hard the job can be.

Um, where do you live? I am pretty sure everybody pays into social security.

 

[Gunslinger08]

Originally posted by: tnitsuj

Originally posted by: Ornery
Cut your expenses then.

Teachers only make as much as they do because of unions. They ought to recieve just what the market will bare. Our teachers only work about 180 days per year, and don't have to pay into Social Security. Once they get tenure, you can't get rid of them.

My dad was a teacher. I KNOW how much they make, and how cushy or hard the job can be.

Um, where do you live? I am pretty sure everybody pays into social security.

No, teachers do not.

 

[Isla]

BTW, starting pay where I live is a whopping 30K. 😛

 

[Isla]

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Originally posted by: tnitsuj

Originally posted by: Ornery
Cut your expenses then.

Teachers only make as much as they do because of unions. They ought to recieve just what the market will bare. Our teachers only work about 180 days per year, and don't have to pay into Social Security. Once they get tenure, you can't get rid of them.

My dad was a teacher. I KNOW how much they make, and how cushy or hard the job can be.

Um, where do you live? I am pretty sure everybody pays into social security.

No, teachers do not.

Well, I need to have a talk with someone!

My paystub always shows that they took Social Security out!

<---teacher who pays SS

 

[Thegonagle]

Originally posted by: Isla
A good teacher INSPIRES...

Here's a lovely story that says it all. (Source Unknown)

******************************************

What a Teacher Makes

The dinner guests were sitting around the table discussing life. One man, a CEO, decided to explain the problem with education. He argued:

"What?s a kid going to learn from someone who decided his best option in life was to become a teacher?" He reminded the other dinner guests that it?s true what they say about teachers: "Those who can...do. Those who can?t...teach."

To corroborate, he said to another guest: "You?re a teacher, Susan," he said. "Be honest. What do you make?" Susan, who had a reputation of honesty and frankness, replied, "You want to know what I make?"

"I make kids work harder than they ever thought they could. I can make a C+ feel like a Congressional Medal of Honor and an A- feel like a slap in the face if the student did not do his or her very best."

"I can make kids sit through 40 minutes of study hall in absolute silence." "I can make parents tremble in fear when I call home".

"You want to know what I make?" "I make kids wonder." "I make them question." "I make them criticize." "I make them apologize and mean it." "I make them write." "I make them read, read, read."

"I make them spell definitely beautiful, definitely beautiful, and definitely beautiful over and over and over again, until they will never misspell either one of those words again." "I make them show all their work in math and hide it all on their final drafts in English." "I make them understand that if you have the brains, then follow your heart...and if someone ever tries to judge you by what you make, you pay them no attention."

"You want to know what I make?"

"I make a difference."

I love it. Thank you.

I once had a great teacher who made a wonderful difference in my life.

 

[Gunslinger08]

Originally posted by: Isla
BTW, starting pay where I live is a whopping 30K. 😛

We lose teachers in my area because our starting pay is $35k as opposed to $40k in a county about 40 miles away. I don't understand why you would commute an extra 80 miles each day for $5k.

 

[WhiteKnight]

"Just about anyone can be a teacher"

Your boss is a dumbass. I know that I sure don't have what it takes and I'm even more certain that he doesn't.

 

[Gunslinger08]

Originally posted by: Isla

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Originally posted by: tnitsuj

Originally posted by: Ornery
Cut your expenses then.

Teachers only make as much as they do because of unions. They ought to recieve just what the market will bare. Our teachers only work about 180 days per year, and don't have to pay into Social Security. Once they get tenure, you can't get rid of them.

My dad was a teacher. I KNOW how much they make, and how cushy or hard the job can be.

Um, where do you live? I am pretty sure everybody pays into social security.

No, teachers do not.

Well, I need to have a talk with someone!

My paystub always shows that they took Social Security out!

<---teacher who pays SS

Are you unionized?

Most union teachers don't pay SS, they have their own retirement plan set up in the union and the government allows it.

 

[burnedout]

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Originally posted by: burnedout

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Originally posted by: burnedout

Originally posted by: Medellon
I live in El Paso Texas.

At this very moment, I'm talking with two project managers here in Austin who have a combined total of 30 years classroom experience in Texas ISDs. Another project manager with PhD sits over in a corner.

The questions are: How many years of experience do you have? Do you have a Masters?

And, re: "He says if anything teachers are overpaid because of all the vacation they get and anyone can do their job."

One of the project managers just went off about that remark. Totally uncalled for he said.

It's the truth though. With the standards today, a high school dropout who got his GED could perform the duties of a high school teacher.

With all due respects, Bullsh!t.

Show me a HS dropout with a GED who can effectively teach pre-calculus or chemistry without getting his ass sued by parents.

My precalc teacher had an associates degree. My chem teacher was "working on" his bachelors. He also got fired at the end of the year for sexual harassing a student. I know that in my area, the teachers aren't really even deserving of the $40k they make.

If those two made it to the classroom, they should be considered fortunate. With the exception of JROTC and some vocational trades, as far as I know, they won't even allow teachers in the classroom without a bachelors degree here in Texas. Additionally, I'm almost positive Kentucky, Tennessee and Florida are very strict in this regard as well.

 

[Lucky]

Originally posted by: Medellon

Originally posted by: joshsquall
I'd say $40k isn't bad for 9 months out of the year. That's $53k/year if you worked 12months. You also get 2 weeks off for Christmas, get to set a lot of your own rules in the classroom, and you have control over the lives of a lot of kids. Seems like fair pay to me.

True but you really can't use the 12 month argument because I don't have the opportunity to make $53K a year.

Sure you do, you just can't be lazy. Teach at summer school, tutor, or teach at workshops like my mother does.

 

[tnitsuj]

Oh, I see. in Texas and Georgia sme districts have opted to have employees contribute to Pension plans rather than to SS through WEP. That will really screw you, if you have or had a job outside of teaching as well.

 

[n0cmonkey]

100k easy, if they are good. -$100k if they are not.

 

[Lucky]

Originally posted by: tnitsuj
Oh, I see. in Texas and Georgia sme districts have opted to have employees contribute to Pension plans rather than to SS through WEP. That will really screw you, if you have or had a job outside of teaching as well.

Yeah, you still pay into a private retirement account if you don't pay SS.

Where in the world do teachers make this much? Even in an area with an extremely high COL that's VERY good.

It's common for many teachers in rich suburban chicago schools to pay that much. See here

 

[johnjohn320]

Well, teachers are for the most part underpaid, one of the lower paid jobs, really. What you said about smart people != good teachers is very true.

I have also never met a teacher who only works 9 months a year. My sister is a grade school teacher, but do you think her day is done at 3:00 with the kids? Hell no-she tutors and everything else on the side. In the summer she teaches gifted programs at Northwestern University, among other things. She works her ass off, no one can tell me she doesnt deserve more money than she makes.

I'm a music teacher, for whatever that's worth to your manager. I'm still a youngin' myself (17) so I just teach lessons out of my house. But man...teaching isn't nearly as easy as it looks, that's for sure.

PE Teachers, on the other hand...Yeah i think a chimp could do their job.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Medellon

Originally posted by: joshsquall
I'd say $40k isn't bad for 9 months out of the year. That's $53k/year if you worked 12months. You also get 2 weeks off for Christmas, get to set a lot of your own rules in the classroom, and you have control over the lives of a lot of kids. Seems like fair pay to me.

True but you really can't use the 12 month argument because I don't have the opportunity to make $53K a year.

Factor in the extra hours the teachers I know work over and above a 40 hour week in order to do their job, and that difference evaporates.

 

[burnedout]

Originally posted by: Lucky

Originally posted by: tnitsuj
Oh, I see. in Texas and Georgia sme districts have opted to have employees contribute to Pension plans rather than to SS through WEP. That will really screw you, if you have or had a job outside of teaching as well.

Yeah, you still pay into a private retirement account if you don't pay SS.

Where in the world do teachers make this much? Even in an area with an extremely high COL that's VERY good.

It's common for many teachers in rich suburban chicago schools to pay that much. See here

An acquaintance of mine earns about $68K yearly in New Jersey. When I heard that, I said dayam!

 

[Gunslinger08]

The really sad thing is that entry level salaries for high school teachers in my area are higher than 5 year pay for assistant professors at my college.