What is Christianity

[Amorphus]

This first post is about the central tenets of Christianity. Read this, if anything else in this thread. The second and third discuss how Catholicism, Mormonism, and Jehovah's Witnessesism differ from biblical teaching, and you may choose to read them, or not. But at least read the first.



Firstly, Christianity is based on the notion presented in John 3:16, that God cared about the world, and so to save the world, sent Christ as a sacrifice for the sins of the world, just as lambs were used as sacrifices to atone for the sins of the Jews.

Secondly, Jesus Christ is the only way to Heaven. Text
He is the only true way, he is the source of life, and he is the true God. Noone may enter Heaven except through Christ.

What does "through Christ" mean? See the first link - "whosoever believes in him shall not perish".

Now, here is another issue of semantics. What does "believes in him" mean? Obviously, it doesn't just mean that you believe God exists, because, as it says in James 2:19, "even the demons believe", but yet the demons are not going to go to heaven, since they were doomed to Hell upon their betrayal of God.

Before Christ came, the Jews had been instructed by God to provide blood sacrifices to him, to atone for their sins. The nature of sin was just so - they had to be punished, and blood must be spilled. However, to keep from killing off all humans, God allowed the sacrifice of an innocent (e.g. a lamb, or a goat) to atone for the sins of the one who offered the sacrifice (hence, "scapegoat").
Christ came so that none of this had to be done anymore. When Christ was crucified, he was the sacrificial Lamb of God, who died so that our sins could be forgiven by God. Remember, God does not allow sin in His presence - he is God. When the blood of Christ was spilt, it absolved us of our sin, and it is our choice whether or not to accept this sacrifice. When a lamb was sacrificed by a priest in the name of all who came to the temple, it could only absolve those who went to the temple, and it is the same way with the sacrifice of Christ.

This is all that is central to Christianity. This is the one pillar which holds Christ's church up - that Christ was the sacrifice for all humanity, innocent of all sin (since sacrificing someone not perfect would just be like sacrificing a lousy, mangy rat to God). The only tenet is that Christ is the way through which we enter Heaven.

 

[Amorphus]

As to why Catholics and Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses are not Christians:

Catholics believe in a "saved by works" sort of faith. Christianity as it is presented in the Bible, obviously says that we are saved by Christ's blood - that He is the only way to reach Heaven.
However, Catholicism wrongly interprets James 2:17, which states that "faith without works is dead".
Read the context.
What the Bible is actually saying is that faith must be accompanied by following the instruction of God, because otherwise faith is superficial and worthless - without works, you are basically saying to God, "I want a free ride", which is not what salvation is. However, Catholicism has taken this, and warped it, such that now, you have to be a good person, and tithe, and be nice, and treat others well, to reach Heaven, and if you're not good enough, then you have to be punished more for it in "purgatory" (which is never spoken of in the Bible; the Apocrypha maybe, but noone uses that except the Catholic Church, who made the book to conform to doctrine).

The concept of Purgatory, a place where we are punished for the sins which have not been forgiven, is also in contrast to what the Bible teaches. First off, your sins have to be forgiven by a Priest when you confess them to him, in Catholicism. This is mentioned nowhere in the Bible - only God has the authority to forgive sins. For reference, here's two articles, one saying that those ordained can forgive sins, and one saying that man cannot forgive sins, that only God can.
Man is not God, and so man does not have the authority of God.
As for Purgatory - well, our sins were forgiven with Christ's sacrifice. Not "the sins which we had commited up until now", or "some of our sins", but "our sins" (I would get a Bible verse for this, but it's a moot point). Read Romans 5 and see what is implicit.

Also, the Catholic belief that the sacrament (the bread and wine) is actually Jesus' body and blood is greatly mislead. Read what Christ actually said at the Last Supper concerning the wine and bread. It's not like we don't have metaphor in language.
Also, it is a Catholic belief that the figure of Christ on the crucifix present in all Catholic churches comes alive during communion is both doctrinally incorrect, and illogical. For one, we can see that it's not actually alive, and two, because Christ already died for our sins. Saying he comes alive again to suffer on the cross again is saying that Christ's first sacrifice wasn't good enough (this goes back to the issue presented in the previous paragraph, that Christ's sacrifice was perfect in its redemption of man).

Those are the major points of contention concerning Catholicism and Protestantism.

 

[Amorphus]

As to why Mormons are not Christians - well, they're a cult. They will strongly deny this up and down, but they are a cult - an offshoot of Christianity, as is Jehovah's Witnesses. I will get into both these in detail.

Mormonism, for one, is a fairly new religion. Started by a guy who said he saw angels, and then found gold tablets in the woods, and started a religion from this.

Now, in short, Mormonism promotes the belief that God was once a normal person, just like us. But God was a good Mormon when he was a human, and he was so good, he got his own planet of people to rule over, and God lives off in space somewhere (there is a name for the planet he lives on, but I don't care enough to find it).

Quite absurd, really, as none of this is in the Bible. The Mormons have their own book, and its validity cannot be confirmed, such as the Bible can. Noone says the Book of Mormon is an accurate history, or reliable, as is said about the Bible.










Jehovah's Witnesses - well, for one, they think that only 144,000 will enter Heaven, based on a misinterpretation of Revalation Chapter 7, where it says "144,000 will be sealed" (remember, the book of Revelation is a book of prophecy). Revelation 14 also has this image, where 144,000 have been chosen by God. Read a discussion on this here (please note that the "contradiction" he is talking about is a theory called the "Earth/Heaven Reward", which is a theological theory which is not actually presented verbatim in the Bible).

Secondly, they do not believe in the Trinity. Christ, to them, was not savior, nor God. He was just a perfect man, who was on Earth to spread God's message (ignoring, of course, the proclamations He made that He is[ God. They have their own doctrine, and their own little Holy Magagine (the "Watchtower", which, among other things, has said that he end of the world will come about in 1914, 1950, 1974, and other such dates).

 

[slightlyhuman]

nice post


seriously

 

[Amorphus]

Debate is open, of course, but please don't flame. This is what differentiates Catholicism, Mormonism, and Jehovah's Witnessesism from protestant Christianity, and why they are not considered to be "true Christianity".

 

[jst0ney]

Mormons also believe in a continual revelation. Meaning that new beliefs are formed as they are revieled to them. Quite an ingenius concept for designing the rules. They can change them at anytime. Look at their stance on minorities.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

flamebait :roll: Can't we just BAN all people who start religious threads / discussion? PUHLEASE!?

 

[notfred]

Originally posted by: Amorphus
Now, in short, Mormonism promotes the belief that God was once a normal person, just like us. But God was a good Mormon when he was a human, and he was so good, he got his own planet of people to rule over, and God lives off in space somewhere (there is a name for the planet he lives on, but I don't care enough to find it).

Quite absurd, really.

What makes it any more absurd than the christianity? A guy being awarded a planet to rule over is more absurd than a snake tricking people into eating an apple, or people turning into pillars of salt, or a sea parting, or any of the other unbelievable stuff in the bible?

 

[Amorphus]

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: Amorphus
Now, in short, Mormonism promotes the belief that God was once a normal person, just like us. But God was a good Mormon when he was a human, and he was so good, he got his own planet of people to rule over, and God lives off in space somewhere (there is a name for the planet he lives on, but I don't care enough to find it).

Quite absurd, really.

What makes it any more absurd than the christianity? A guy being awarded a planet to rule over is more absurd than a snake tricking people into eating an apple, or people turning into pillars of salt, or a sea parting, or any of the other unbelievable stuff in the bible?

Okay, so my point of view is from that of protestant Christianity. What did you expect, fair and balanced?

 

[Amorphus]

Originally posted by: FFMCobalt
flamebait :roll: Can't we just BAN all people who start religious threads / discussion? PUHLEASE!?

This was meant as an all-purpose rebuttal to the entire "Why aren't Catholics Christians?" thread.

 

[TheBDB]

Good luck getting everyone to agree to your interpretation of things.

 

[jjones]

* pulls up lawn chair, grabs bag of chips, cracks open a beer.

 

[kage69]

Fiction, albeit with good intent.


*grabs some of jones' chips*

 

[Kipper]

Originally posted by: jst0ney
Mormons also believe in a continual revelation. Meaning that new beliefs are formed as they are revieled to them. Quite an ingenius concept for designing the rules. They can change them at anytime. Look at their stance on minorities.

This is one of the reasons Mormonism is about to withstand the test of time. Whereas other sects have dogma, tradition, and doctrine steeped in their theology, Mormons can adapt, change, and more readily maintain internal cohesion.

 

[ElFenix]

why the hate against Orthodox?

 

[boggsie]

The Christ or Messiah, Jesus (Yeshua), is Life ... the rest is commentary.

John 14:6

Originally posted by: Amorphus
This first post is about the central tenets of Christianity. Read this, if anything else in this thread. The second and third discuss how Catholicism, Mormonism, and Jehovah's Witnessesism differ from biblical teaching, and you may choose to read them, or not. But at least read the first.

Firstly, Christianity is based on the notion presented in John 3:16, that God cared about the world, and so to save the world, sent Christ as a sacrifice for the sins of the world, just as lambs were used as sacrifices to atone for the sins of the Jews.

Secondly, Jesus Christ is the only way to Heaven. Text
He is the only true way, he is the source of life, and he is the true God. Noone may enter Heaven except through Christ.

What does "through Christ" mean? See the first link - "whosoever believes in him shall not perish".

Now, here is another issue of semantics. What does "believes in him" mean? Obviously, it doesn't just mean that you believe God exists, because, as it says in James 2:19, "even the demons believe", but yet the demons are not going to go to heaven, since they were doomed to Hell upon their betrayal of God.

Before Christ came, the Jews had been instructed by God to provide blood sacrifices to him, to atone for their sins. The nature of sin was just so - they had to be punished, and blood must be spilled. However, to keep from killing off all humans, God allowed the sacrifice of an innocent (e.g. a lamb, or a goat) to atone for the sins of the one who offered the sacrifice (hence, "scapegoat").
Christ came so that none of this had to be done anymore. When Christ was crucified, he was the sacrificial Lamb of God, who died so that our sins could be forgiven by God. Remember, God does not allow sin in His presence - he is God. When the blood of Christ was spilt, it absolved us of our sin, and it is our choice whether or not to accept this sacrifice. When a lamb was sacrificed by a priest in the name of all who came to the temple, it could only absolve those who went to the temple, and it is the same way with the sacrifice of Christ.

This is all that is central to Christianity. This is the one pillar which holds Christ's church up - that Christ was the sacrifice for all humanity, innocent of all sin (since sacrificing someone not perfect would just be like sacrificing a lousy, mangy rat to God). The only tenet is that Christ is the way through which we enter Heaven.

 

[AccruedExpenditure]

You know... The Eastern Orthodox kept more of the ancient Christian tenets then the western church.

 

[DougK62]

That stick sure is stuck WAY up there, isn't it? The fact that several times you say that a certain interpretation is wrong and yours is always right is enough to stop reading. Just say it like it is - it makes you feel good to tell other people they're wrong and you're right, even though you have zero factual evidence to support it.

You're doing a disservice to Christianity.

 

[Jzero]

Originally posted by: Amorphus
Quite absurd, really, as none of this is in the Bible. The Mormons have their own book, and its validity cannot be confirmed, such as the Bible can. Noone says the Book of Mormon is an accurate history, or reliable, as is said about the Bible.

Give it a couple thousand years and the Book Of Mormon will be just like the Bible and Quran are today.
Like the line from Lord Of The Rings, "History became legend, legend became myth." Christianity and Islam and Judaism were once "cults" in a conventional definition of the word. But after a thousand years, millions of followers will refuse to acknowledge the true history, if they even know it at all.

Can the Bible truly be confirmed? If so, I missed that day in class.

 

[andrewjm]

What is Christianity . . .
---------------------------


A stupid brainwashed religion that causes people to believe in something where there is NO scientific proof or evidence.

You should not believe in christianity anymore than you believe in a purple elephant.

 

[Josephus]

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

I've understood that many different ways in my life... Jesus made a radical change in the image of God. The Hebrews thought they weren't following the law closely enough and started clamping down on the letter... not the spirit of the law. Jesus repeatedly informs us through the Gospels that he is seeking mercy, not scarifice. Sacrifice was the common man's understanding on how to please God...

That said, perhaps "No one comes to the Father execpt through me" may be read as... if you don't understand God the way I do, if you don't understand God in this manner; you're not going to find God...

So let's practice a little Mercy with all those who seek God in their own terms through their own traditions and stop acting as if there is a thing as perfect understanding...

as Paul wrote so eloquently ... "For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part; then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known (1 Cor 13:12)

And as for judging others against interpretations or against the Law, James has a few words of advice as well...

"Whoever speaks evil against another or judges another, speaks evil against the law and judges the law; but if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is one lawgiver and judge who is able to save and to destroy. So who, then, are you to judge your neighbor?" (JAS 4:11)

Yes, who then are you???

 

[wkabel23]

What is Christianity

A joke.

 

[glen]

I think a starting point for defining Christianity is:

The Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed
I believe in One God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible;

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Only-begotten, Begotten of the Father before all worlds; Light of Light, Very God of Very God; Begotten, not made; of one essence with the Father, by whom all things were made: Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven, and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and was made man; And was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered and was buried; And the third day He arose again, according to the Scriptures; And ascended into Heaven, and sitteth at the right hand of the Father; And He shall come again with glory to judge the quick and the dead, Whose Kingdom shall have no end.

And I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, and Giver of Life, Who proceedeth from the Father, Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, Who spake by the Prophets;

And I believe in One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. I look for the resurrection of the dead. And the life of the world to come. Amen.

Generally Christians are those who accept the first Seven Eccumenical Councils.

 

[glen]

Amorphus, I want to tell you in the nicest way that you are almost completely wrong in your understanding of Catholicism.

Catholics do believe in the real presents of Christ in the Eucharist, and a number of other things that you have just twisted around, or someone told you in a twisted way. You seem honestly interested, so call a priest and ask them what they believe or arrange to meet with them and have a dialog. be sure to ask about the Seven Eccumenical COuncils, as not discussion of Christianity can really be had without understaning these.