What is better for playing music? Home Theater? Shelf System?

[sdifox]

Power<>Loudness. 10wx2@8ohm amp + 99db/1w/1m speakers > 500Wx2 @8ohm amp + 70db/1w/1m speakers.

Both systems you mentioned will not play loud. Get some horn loaded megaphone

In my definition, loud means you are nauseated. I can achieve that with my system at reference level playing Telarc 1812 DVDA, but I don't want to repeat it.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: sdifox
Power<>Loudness. 10wx2@8ohm amp + 99db/1w/1m speakers > 500Wx2 @8ohm amp + 70db/1w/1m speakers.

Both systems you mentioned will not play loud. Get some horn loaded megaphone

If he wants loud just get some Klipsch RF7s and a 1000 watt carver amp.

That will be SERIOUSLY loud.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: sdifox
Power<>Loudness. 10wx2@8ohm amp + 99db/1w/1m speakers > 500Wx2 @8ohm amp + 70db/1w/1m speakers.

Both systems you mentioned will not play loud. Get some horn loaded megaphone

If he wants loud just get some Klipsch RF7s and a 1000 watt carver amp.

That will be SERIOUSLY loud.

Road trip http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1179863001

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: sdifox
Power<>Loudness. 10wx2@8ohm amp + 99db/1w/1m speakers > 500Wx2 @8ohm amp + 70db/1w/1m speakers.

Both systems you mentioned will not play loud. Get some horn loaded megaphone

In my definition, loud means you are nauseated. I can achieve that with my system at reference level playing Telarc 1812 DVDA, but I don't want to repeat it.

What speaker is 70dB (1w/1m) ? That's horrible efficiency.

The onset of nausea is not going to occur in most setups. Think about it. With efficiency of 105 dB (1W/1M) 135 dB will need a 1kW amp. 145 dB takes 10kW. :Q

It's possible to achieve really loud SPL at low frequency in the cabin of a motor car since you're effectively coupled (like sitting INSIDE the bass bin!) - so 125 dB with 1W is not out of the question. A HiFonics Colossus bridged 4 ohms is 1.8 kW - the max possible SPL would be 157.55 dBUW. :Q

Of course if you really want it foolishly loud you shoot for continuous pink noise output. I doubt any sane human would want to be anywhere near something pumping out 150+ dB of pink noise!

To simulate even louder sounds of LARGE artillary shells, bombs, and other exploding things only takes a pair of headphones and a capacitor. It's rather self explanatory but the results are damaged hearing. Don't do this unless you want to be on Jackass III.

 

[orion23]

Thank you all for the replies.

I am not trying to make my neighbors move or anything like that.... I just want a system that is both very loud and able to take a full load for a few hours or so.

I'm convinced that these Home Theaters are not the answer and the shelf system I linked in the OP wansn't liked very much.

I might get some Polk 6FT wooden box speakers from a friend (200W X 2 and a 250W Center Speaker)

Unfortunately, it's all up to his wife!

 

[Rubycon]

If you like it loud don't even consider anything designed by Matthew Polk.

The voice coils can't take much heat especially the dome tweets.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: Rubycon

Originally posted by: sdifox
Power<>Loudness. 10wx2@8ohm amp + 99db/1w/1m speakers > 500Wx2 @8ohm amp + 70db/1w/1m speakers.

Both systems you mentioned will not play loud. Get some horn loaded megaphone

In my definition, loud means you are nauseated. I can achieve that with my system at reference level playing Telarc 1812 DVDA, but I don't want to repeat it.

What speaker is 70dB (1w/1m) ? That's horrible efficiency.

The onset of nausea is not going to occur in most setups. Think about it. With efficiency of 105 dB (1W/1M) 135 dB will need a 1kW amp. 145 dB takes 10kW. :Q

It's possible to achieve really loud SPL at low frequency in the cabin of a motor car since you're effectively coupled (like sitting INSIDE the bass bin!) - so 125 dB with 1W is not out of the question. A HiFonics Colossus bridged 4 ohms is 1.8 kW - the max possible SPL would be 157.55 dBUW. :Q

Of course if you really want it foolishly loud you shoot for continuous pink noise output. I doubt any sane human would want to be anywhere near something pumping out 150+ dB of pink noise!

To simulate even louder sounds of LARGE artillary shells, bombs, and other exploding things only takes a pair of headphones and a capacitor. It's rather self explanatory but the results are damaged hearing. Don't do this unless you want to be on Jackass III.

I was just making a point. I don't know of any 70db speakers, but I am sure there are some. I am pretty sure those sucky computer speakers are in that range.

I guess you haven't heard the Telarc 1812 on DVDA or SACD. Great technical achievement, very bad recording. It's a great example of people only caring about the technology as opposed to the performance.

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: sdifox

I guess you haven't heard the Telarc 1812 on DVDA or SACD. Great technical achievement, very bad recording. It's a great example of people only caring about the technology as opposed to the performance.

Most Telarc recordings are like that.

EDIT: BTW, I've heard a lot of stuff before it even gets downmixed to stereo and castrated for CD.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: orion23
Thank you all for the replies.

I am not trying to make my neighbors move or anything like that.... I just want a system that is both very loud and able to take a full load for a few hours or so.

I'm convinced that these Home Theaters are not the answer and the shelf system I linked in the OP wansn't liked very much.

I might get some Polk 6FT wooden box speakers from a friend (200W X 2 and a 250W Center Speaker)

Unfortunately, it's all up to his wife!

First of all, ignore those wattage rating for speakers. They are pointless. For your purpose, I would pick up some Rat Shack speakers if you can still find them. Up here in Canada they are getting rid of their rat shack speakers and are 50% off. IF you had money, you could also get some JBL Pro line.

 

[Mellman]

Originally posted by: iRONic
Sigh...

Louder != Better

when you are in college - pretty much it seems to be the case...however with my HT setup I had at home I'd get so pissed when people would crank it up...man I miss my HT setup, i need to get my own place.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: Rubycon

Originally posted by: sdifox

I guess you haven't heard the Telarc 1812 on DVDA or SACD. Great technical achievement, very bad recording. It's a great example of people only caring about the technology as opposed to the performance.

Most Telarc recordings are like that.

EDIT: BTW, I've heard a lot of stuff before it even gets downmixed to stereo and castrated for CD.

studio work huh. oh well, both DVDA and SACD are toast, wonder if they will try again.

 

[OREOSpeedwagon]

Alessandro MS-1 or MS-2i sounds about right for you.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: OREOSpeedwagon
Alessandro MS-1 or MS-2i sounds about right for you.

That would be a waste of speakers for his purpose.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: Rubycon

Originally posted by: sdifox

I guess you haven't heard the Telarc 1812 on DVDA or SACD. Great technical achievement, very bad recording. It's a great example of people only caring about the technology as opposed to the performance.

Most Telarc recordings are like that.

EDIT: BTW, I've heard a lot of stuff before it even gets downmixed to stereo and castrated for CD.

studio work huh. oh well, both DVDA and SACD are toast, wonder if they will try again.

It's too bad, DVD-A had potential.

 

[herm0016]

i second a pair of cerwin vegas. get a separate amp like a berenger or the like and use what ever receiver you have as long as it has line level outputs.
loud=distortion+hearing loss+blown equipment
Quality speakers= hearing the music and not needing to turn it up.

 

[marincounty]

If it's too loud, you're too old!
The advice about cerwin-vega is good, very loud for the dollar, sound quality soso.
The advice about prosound amps is also good.
I would look into building your own speakers if I were you. You could build some towers with multiple woofers that would handle crazy power inputs for relatively cheap.
Try madisound or parts express. Madisound will even design and build the crossover for a price.
Reminds me of an idea I had for a business: Leasebreakers.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: Howard

It's too bad, DVD-A had potential.

I know, bought 42 of them.

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: Howard

It's too bad, DVD-A had potential.

Garbage in -> garbage out. Just because the media has a higher resolution it will not making something that's bad to begin with magically sound better. The chain is only as strong as the weakest link.

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

Originally posted by: Rubycon
Put away the kid gloves and go pro.

Get a few kW's per band (triamp is good to start) and you will have the punch you desire.

I used to think that when something says pro, it isn't

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: orion23
I'm not a quality freak.

What I want, is a system that is VERY LOUD. I listen to Heavy Metal and I really love to hear heavy chords and a thick base or drum sound.

I basically have blown 2 Home Theater system from playing very loud music. This would be my 3rd.

I went from a 500W to a 600w and now I went all out with a 1200W.

(yes, I can still hear)

Go for Quality anyway. Loud is just loud, quality is where it's at.

What most people aren't explaining to you, is that you need both. By going loud, you probably mean going louder and still being able to distinguish between instruments, or something to that effect, right? If so, then you need both, but your main goal isn't for audiophile quality.

That's what I see as being your needs and so I'll agree with Spidey07's post that the Klipsch RF7's might work well for you, they're pretty sensitive and so easy to drive. I'm not personally a fan of them, but if it's what you like, then by all means go ahead and get them.

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: KoolAidKid

Originally posted by: orion23
I'm not a quality freak.

What I want, is a system that is VERY LOUD. I listen to Heavy Metal and I really love to hear heavy chords and a thick base or drum sound.

I basically have blown 2 Home Theater system from playing very loud music. This would be my 3rd.

I went from a 500W to a 600w and now I went all out with a 1200W.

(yes, I can still hear)

I can pretty much guarantee that you have measurable hearing loss at this point.

Maybe he should invest in an SPL meter before he hurts himself

With the kind of stuff he's describing, as long as he isn't in a very small room, he's probably not going to do much damage to himself if any at all.

Also, most of the times it's maybe a few 30 minute sessions at most of loud music, at least that's how it is for me.

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

Originally posted by: herm0016
i second a pair of cerwin vegas. get a separate amp like a berenger or the like and use what ever receiver you have as long as it has line level outputs.
loud=distortion+hearing loss+blown equipment
Quality speakers= hearing the music and not needing to turn it up.

I completely disagree, loud does not imply blown equipment and hearing loss.

"Quality" speakers can produce clear sounds at higher levels and that is a very important characteristic.

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

Originally posted by: Rubycon

Originally posted by: sdifox

I guess you haven't heard the Telarc 1812 on DVDA or SACD. Great technical achievement, very bad recording. It's a great example of people only caring about the technology as opposed to the performance.

Most Telarc recordings are like that.

EDIT: BTW, I've heard a lot of stuff before it even gets downmixed to stereo and castrated for CD.

WWYBYWB

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: AgaBoogaBoo

I used to think that when something says pro, it isn't

Home equipment that has the word pro on it, isn't.

True pro gear doesn't need the labeling.

Most large, horn loaded systems set up in a small area will sound horrible UNLESS the installer knows the limitations and uses the right components - both passive and active - to match it for the environment.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: AgaBoogaBoo

Originally posted by: herm0016
i second a pair of cerwin vegas. get a separate amp like a berenger or the like and use what ever receiver you have as long as it has line level outputs.
loud=distortion+hearing loss+blown equipment
Quality speakers= hearing the music and not needing to turn it up.

I completely disagree, loud does not imply blown equipment and hearing loss.

"Quality" speakers can produce clear sounds at higher levels and that is a very important characteristic.

But it WILL damage your hearing.

Only when I break out the SPL meter do I realize just how LOUD it is. It just doesn't sound LOUD because it's so clear.