I hope you don't plan on working on one with an 'overview' kind of knowledge.It's not like windows where you can prod around and figure out how it works.
I hope you don't plan on working on one with an 'overview' kind of knowledge.It's not like windows where you can prod around and figure out how it works.
Well, to summarize, it is almost entirely 100% command line, but nothing like Linux or Windows. It's usually a series of menus seperated by screens at which you can view variious queues that state basically the status of every pending job in the system. The concept of services are intermixed with the concept of doing actual work, there really isn't any difference.
There is no menu for most of the commands, though, it's just memorization. It runs only on IBM Hardware which is almost entirely RISC, but the hardware isn't at all familiar like a PC. It is usually much more stable and redundant, but there are no, say, PCI slots, for example, or ATA controllers. It's entirely new, more or less, it's like learning relativitiy with a 2nd grade math knowledge.
i work at a fairly large sporting goods chain and it's all run on as400. never had an issue with it and i'm rather found of the nice simple interface. it's great for what it is. though i've never had the opertunity to do any support or admin on it yet it's just never came up. there's like one tech for the whole company and he never seems to be busy.
I think the advice of looking for some official training would be good. If something is running on the as/400 its probably important and not something you want to try and poke your way, especially in a crisis. A bit different from "ohhh its a windows server...just reboot it...."
Originally posted by: KingNothing
It's really the best way to describe it. Since I tend to skim threads, I want to reiterate the point so the skimers will at least understand it once. NOTHING i have learned on Windows or Linux even remotely can carry over. It's like starting brand new on everything. The AS/400s concept of an operating system, of a database, of it's harware, and of how the processor manages threads and processess and even the way it is archictured is nothing like x86 or any OS or hardware that can run on it.
I know enough about it to know that I shouldn't touch it. If by some reason something quits working - which hardly ever happens (hence me not having to learn it) we call our consultants. It is much cheaper, IMO, to keep consultants at arms length than it is to keep an AS/400 guru on staff, since their knowledge would price them very, very high for something they're hardly needed for. Being that the OS hardly needs to be tinkered with once it is set up and that crashes are unheard of, there really isn't much of a need to have a working AS/400 knowledge once it is configured properly. There'd be no way to maintain that knowledge unless you had a farm of them, at which point most companies would be able to afford a full-time AS/400 tech anyways.
Kinda stuck on this "learning relativity with a 2nd grade math knowledge" simile, aren't ya?
It's really the best way to describe it. Since I tend to skim threads, I want to reiterate the point so the skimers will at least understand it once. NOTHING i have learned on Windows or Linux even remotely can carry over. It's like starting brand new on everything. The AS/400s concept of an operating system, of a database, of it's harware, and of how the processor manages threads and processess and even the way it is archictured is nothing like x86 or any OS or hardware that can run on it.
I know enough about it to know that I shouldn't touch it. If by some reason something quits working - which hardly ever happens (hence me not having to learn it) we call our consultants. It is much cheaper, IMO, to keep consultants at arms length than it is to keep an AS/400 guru on staff, since their knowledge would price them very, very high for something they're hardly needed for. Being that the OS hardly needs to be tinkered with once it is set up and that crashes are unheard of, there really isn't much of a need to have a working AS/400 knowledge once it is configured properly. There'd be no way to maintain that knowledge unless you had a farm of them, at which point most companies would be able to afford a full-time AS/400 tech anyways.
No.... It is a job where the primary function is Microsoft networking and servers, but they do have 1 AS400 server. I would not be expected to be an AS400 admin, but I thought it would be nice if I knew SOMETHING about it.
No, I plan on at best being the monkey on the other side of the phone of someone who does know it if necessary. (which shouldn't be very often, if at all)
Believe it or not, this thread has been pretty helpful and was pretty much all I was looking for. Thanks.
Whenever my boss (the only remotely capable AS/400 tech on staff) has to talk to IBM, he says they talk way above his level. They expect to be on the level of a dedicated AS/400 consultant, at least in my experience. Again, YMMV. They're not like Dell support reps that will tolerate the lowest common denominator of users.
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This position sounds a lot like mine. I've got a handful of Win2k servers, about 70 Win2k/XP workstations, and then the AS/400 server.
I only do basic things like:
- inz tap (initialize tapes)
- copy user profiles for new users
- swap the tapes for nightly data only backups
- run full system backups monthly
- know a few vary on/off commands for modems and TCP/IP
- set up client access for users
Other than that, our software vendors handle all support issues. IBM maintanence does all hardware stuff.
I only do basic things like:
- inz tap (initialize tapes)
- copy user profiles for new users
- swap the tapes for nightly data only backups
- run full system backups monthly
- know a few vary on/off commands for modems and TCP/IP
- set up client access for users
Other than that, our software vendors handle all support issues. IBM maintanence does all hardware stuff.
Elemental, this is more what I would be doing. Any monkey type tasks, I would be shown how to do and/or given a script to follow. They know I don't know AS400, but that wouldn't be my main function. I just thought it might be nice if I found out some background info on it.
the beauty of keyboard maps. problem solved.
it's emulation software, obviously, and the terminal keyboard is not a 104 key Windows keyboard....
Still
I suggest you learn from someone as an apprentice (or formal education), rather than reading it online or in a book and tinkering. It is very easy to disable some services than can render it worthless Commands are very similiar to one another and service descriptions are not always indiciate of their function. Like I said, if you are dealing with an AS/400, you are dealing with something that is obviously mission critical, and cutting budgets and not having proper training for mission-critical systems is basically commiting IT suicide.
Don't worry, I won't be doing any "tinkering". At most I would be following command by command instructions. Anything I would do to it would be them making me to do it and they know I don't know it so it would be on them.
No offense, but command-by-command instructions don't work in Windows all that well, what makes you think they'll work on the AS/400? People that get by with command-by-command instructions have royally messed up computers, but they still run...on the 400, one small mistake can take hours to kink out.
Like I said, if you bring an AS/400 down, you'll probably put your job severely at risk.....I'm willing to bet that people who told you to 'learn enough to get by' have no clue of what they are getting into.
EDIT: I just thought that I'd add that if they have the money to spend on the 400, have them formally train you. I don't think anyone in management positions has any clue as to how different it is than the machine sitting on their desktop. They understand the principle of cost vs. downtime, and they need to understand that skimping on a few thousands in formal education (which you will get charged, since it is such a niche market) could outweigh disambling the company's entire financial infrastructure (which, if ours went down, would be the case).
If you have detailed instructions and can follow them, it works on windows just fine. I've had it done by people that didn't know anything many times. You just have to have the right person that can follow directions. It's not me making that decision anyway, it's them. I'm not going to turn the job down because of that. I've been honest about the fact that I don't know it, but I believe the fact remains that they couldn't afford a full time AS400 person. So they will pay for a consultant when they need it and have me follow scripts for stupid stuff like switching out tapes. These would be proven scripts that have been done many times before me and you have to be an idiot to screw something like that up when it's completely spelled out for you. I can handle that.
obviously you are not understanding me. That is fine. At least read some of the redbooks posted earlier before you take this job. I don't think you are making a valid comparison as to how arcane the AS/400 is. The moment you knock it off line they will cruify you beyond belief. Don't think you are incapable of doing that, one mismatched secuiry setting or one programming glitch that is actually your consultants or programmers fault and you are dead. They will crucify YOU, NOT the guy that wrote the code. Upper management and accounting people, who are most likely to use it, have no concept of 3rd party development on a platform like that. Technically, it is in your job description, and therefore anything done to the AS/400 will be tied to you. If you had a working knowledge of it you would be able to understand the mechanics of these scripts, macros and programs better, but without a working knowledge you are likely to get blamed for anything that goes wrong with it
You are also assuming that the code that does these tasks you speak of will always be correct. It won't. It's not even written in a language that many people have a working knowledge of. In Windows you can click 'close' when a script throws an error and reboot.
It sounds to me that if they are asking to you to whimsically administer the 400 without any training, you are setting yourself up for a high-stress job that could be a career trainwreck. It also seems to me that if they are cutting corners by having in-house 400 operations, they'll cut corners in your budget elsewhere too, and cutting corners excessively in IT just leads to a path of death and destruction.
It's analogous to building nuclear warheads and leaving them sitting in your backyard out on the grass and the rain and never touching them. They seem like a really good idea at the time, but somewhere down the like you'll get fvcked like a schoolgirl.
It's analogous to building nuclear warheads and leaving them sitting in your backyard out on the grass and the rain and never touching them. They seem like a really good idea at the time, but somewhere down the like you'll get fvcked like a schoolgirl.
I never understood the "big iron" concept of database work. Especially when it is running such a touchy OS. Sure, maybe it's stable as long as you know exactly what you are doing. But a farm of Sun servers seems like it could do just as good a job, just as cheaply (probably more so) and no single point of failure (bork up one server and the rest are still running). Of course I've only worked for midsize companies that have no need of AS400 servers, so I might be missing something.
As for accepting a job or not, I would never take a job where is was my responsability to run something I did not understand. You may be able to call consultants and such, but at the end of the day if it doesn't work, it's your ass.
As for accepting a job or not, I would never take a job where is was my responsability to run something I did not understand. You may be able to call consultants and such, but at the end of the day if it doesn't work, it's your ass.
No, I get you.... but I don't think you get me. It comes down to this:
Job/No job
Paycheck/No paycheck
hmm... what to choose?...
Don't get me wrong, I don't mind learning some stuff. However, like I said before, they are fully aware that I don't have any experience with AS400 and they know they can't blame me. I'm admin for the windows side and lowly datacenter errand boy on the AS400 side (if there is even much to do with it). If they do blame me, I don't care... let them fire me for their own stupidity... I'll still keep my paychecks I got until that point.
Job/No job
Paycheck/No paycheck
hmm... what to choose?...
Don't get me wrong, I don't mind learning some stuff. However, like I said before, they are fully aware that I don't have any experience with AS400 and they know they can't blame me. I'm admin for the windows side and lowly datacenter errand boy on the AS400 side (if there is even much to do with it). If they do blame me, I don't care... let them fire me for their own stupidity... I'll still keep my paychecks I got until that point.
This will be my last post in this thread.
You may be right, but I am saying that the person that knows you don't have experience with it is the exact same person who doesn't know a damn about it and thinks its some magical superstable Windows-like OS that you can prod around in. And it will be the exact same person that will call you the second that someone complains it isn't working. It's your call, obviously, I've posted enough in this thread that you know my opinion. It is only you that seems that you can work this job and take responsibility for something that you don't know. Everyone else agrees with me in that the AS/400 is best left to consultants entirely, and the hiring of your position is some short-sighted attempt to reduce the consulting costs (by having you pick up some of the work). I think you will be asked more than you are expecting and you will take full burden of the AS/400 even when you haven't done a damn thing to it.
I agree, it is best to do have a real AS400 person do it. I don't know about you, but places I've worked have done much worse than that, but they lived with it. And most of the time everything was fine.... sometimes sh*t would hit the fan and they would bring in the big guns and spend a lot of money to fix it, but sometimes it's still more cost effective to do it that way so they don't care.
I guess what I'm saying is if they can live with it, so can I.
I guess what I'm saying is if they can live with it, so can I.
Both applications that I have is in extensive financial management. Billing, accounts payable, for large groups of people. I've also seen them used for tenant mangement, but it seems to me the dominating use is accounts payable and billing. Of course they can be used as network file servers, web servers, databse servers, and just about anything else that is out there. There are probably dozens more of specific applications too.
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