What is an engineer?

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: JohnCU

k. whatever, i still have a BSEE and can get a job wherever i want. so i have some advantage.

That is completely irrelevant information. This discussion isn't about your ability to find a job, it's about the legitimacy of people calling themselves "engineers".

You're just being childish, sort of like the kid that likes to horde all the toys. "No, that title's MINE, you can't use it!!!"

yes, the title is mine, because i suffered through classes like electromagnetics and statics and advanced engineering calculus. the others didn't.

You're really just an insecure, immature child, aren't you? I think that's the root cause here and not anything engineering related.

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: JohnCU

k. whatever, i still have a BSEE and can get a job wherever i want. so i have some advantage.

That is completely irrelevant information. This discussion isn't about your ability to find a job, it's about the legitimacy of people calling themselves "engineers".

You're just being childish, sort of like the kid that likes to horde all the toys. "No, that title's MINE, you can't use it!!!"

yes, the title is mine, because i suffered through classes like electromagnetics and statics and advanced engineering calculus. the others didn't.

You're really just an insecure, immature child, aren't you? I think that's the root cause here and not anything engineering related.

LMAO k. :laugh:

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: JohnCU
calc 3 was as easy as 1st grade!

*evil glare

My test scores in Calc 1 were in the 65-70% range; luckily, I could manage a nearly perfect homework score, but it always took a long time to do.
Calc just made no sense intuitively.

Adding and multiplying, I can easily visualize what's going on.
But a derivative? x² d/dx = 2x
Well, ok, I can move numbers around, but I have no idea why I'm jumping through that hoop.

Originally posted by: KillerCharlie

Originally posted by: Aharami
you're not an engineer unless you have a PE cert

So all the aerospace engineers that design spacecraft and airplanes aren't engineers? PEs are worthless in most engineering fields.

I vote that an engineer (by education) is someone who has an ABET-accredited engineering degree.

I'll buy that.

You can be an engineer without a PE license. A PE license means you can call yourself an Engineer, with a capital letter. 😉 And you can of course sign off on things, and put P.E. after your name.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: Safeway

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Safeway


And a train operator is a conductor.

Wrong. Do you have any idea about what you're talking about, or do you just confidently post bullshit in the hope that it sticks?

A train engineer is NOT the same person who is the conductor.

Look man, you want to talk about people without a clue, look at yourself. I posted the law, a completely valid and thought-out post.

You start attacking me. When you can't attack the post, attack the poster, right?

Anyway, I'm not looking to insult you any further than you have insulted yourself.

Ok, here it is without the insults:

A train engineer is a different job than a train conductor. They are two different jobs for two different functions.

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: Jeff7

Originally posted by: JohnCU
calc 3 was as easy as 1st grade!

*evil glare

My test scores in Calc 1 were in the 65-70% range; luckily, I could manage a nearly perfect homework score, but it always took a long time to do.
Calc just made no sense intuitively.

Adding and multiplying, I can easily visualize what's going on.
But a derivative? x² d/dx = 2x
Well, ok, I can move numbers around, but I have no idea why I'm jumping through that hoop.

calc 1 was just intro, calc 2 was just integrals, calc 3 was just vectors, calc 4 is where it got hard

 

[Safeway]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: TecHNooB

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Safeway

Laws exist in the U.S., in Canada and in South Africa that limit the use specific engineer titles, particularly the title of "Professional Engineer." However, most engineers in the U.S. do not become professional engineers. Titles indicating a specific, regulated branch of engineering, such as "civil engineer" or "mechanical engineer" are also regulated. Most U.S. states prohibit unlicensed persons from calling themselves an "engineer" or indicating branches or specialties not covered by the licensing acts. The IEEE's formal position on this is as follows:

"The title, Engineer, and its derivatives should be reserved for those individuals whose education and experience qualify them to practice in a manner that protects public safety. Strict use of the title serves the interest of both the IEEE-USA and the public by providing a recognized designation by which those qualified to practice engineering may be identified. The education and experience needed for the title, Engineer, is evidenced by

* Graduation with an Engineering degree from an ABET/EAC accredited program of engineering (or equivalent*), coupled with sufficient experience in the field in which the term, Engineer, is used; and/or

* Licensure by any jurisdiction as a Professional Engineer.

* A degree from a foreign institution (or the total education when one person holds a graduate degree in engineering but no accredited B.S. in engineering) can be evaluated through a service offered by ABET."

Despite these laws, many individuals with no formal education in engineering are still often called engineers because of a history of engineering work.

So what this say is:

1) ABET-accredited degree should not be an Engineer unless coupled with proper experience.
2) PE license gets you the Engineer title.
3) No formal degree, no Engineering title.
4) People continue to call themselves Engineers even though it is illegal.

You're referring to a narrow scope of engineering such as mechanical engineering or civil engineering. There are many other fields out there that have the title of engineer that do not involve those disciplines. For example, someone who operates a train is an engineer. Who are you to tell them that they can't use their rightful title even though that usage has been around longer than yours has?

The idea is we want qualified people to have the Engineer title. Otherwise I'll start calling myself doctor from now on.

The conditions that were stated before apply to engineering trades such as designing buildings, planes, roads, etc. Those conditions were created so that you couldn't have a guy or a firm claiming that he could be engineer in those fields even though he has no certification.

Those conditions do not apply to unrelated fields whose jobs have engineer in the title, such as network engineer or a train engineer.

A train engineer is a driver or operator. (I wiki'd it.) Are pizza guys Delivery Engineers? I mean, they control the speed of the vehicle, the handling, the locomotion and acceleration.

A network engineer -- I can agree with that if they came from an engineering/computer science background. Network engineers control system architecture. Makes sense.

(Edit: However, I would not call a sysadmin a network engineer. I'd reserve NetEng for large-scale infrastructure at a macro or micro level.)

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: JohnCU

LMAO k. :laugh:

What do you call the student who graduated dead last the worst med school in the nation? Doctor. And you can be sure that guy will defend that title harder than the competent doctors who graduated from better schools. Why? Because they're confident about their abilities and feel no need to knock anyone else down. They know that their competition are the lesser doctors, not the average joes at home. As for the crappy "doctor", well, he'd rather argue with average people over the usage of the name "doctor".

I bet you are amazed that you graduated from an engineering school. And you'd probably rather compete with average people on a message forum that real engineers who know what they're doing.

 

[JohnCU]

and what do you call the student who graduated from a 2 year tech school? not an engineer!

 

[TecHNooB]

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: Jeff7

Originally posted by: JohnCU
calc 3 was as easy as 1st grade!

*evil glare

My test scores in Calc 1 were in the 65-70% range; luckily, I could manage a nearly perfect homework score, but it always took a long time to do.
Calc just made no sense intuitively.

Adding and multiplying, I can easily visualize what's going on.
But a derivative? x² d/dx = 2x
Well, ok, I can move numbers around, but I have no idea why I'm jumping through that hoop.

calc 1 was just intro, calc 2 was just integrals, calc 3 was just vectors, calc 4 is where it got hard

calc 4 o_o?

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: Safeway

A train engineer is a driver or operator. (I wiki'd it.) Are pizza guys Delivery Engineers? I mean, they control the speed of the vehicle, the handling, the locomotion and acceleration.

A network engineer -- I can agree with that if they came from an engineering/computer science background. Network engineers control system architecture. Makes sense.

(Edit: However, I would not call a sysadmin a network engineer. I'd reserve NetEng for large-scale infrastructure at a macro or micro level.)

From the wiki:


On many railroads, the career progression is one that starts as an assistant conductor (brakeman), conductor and finally, engineer. In the United States the engineer is required to be certified and re-certified every 2?3 years.

It looks to me like there is a job title called "engineer" that operates the locomotive.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: JohnCU
calc 1 was just intro, calc 2 was just integrals, calc 3 was just vectors, calc 4 is where it got hard

Damn man, that's crazy. I had Calc I, II, and then Partial and Ordinary Differential Equations. Diff.Eq was lousy, it was the only C I got in college, and it was almost a solid 75% on every test and quiz (no homework was ever graded in the class). It was nifty stuff, but didn't make a damn bit of sense.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: JohnCU
and what do you call the student who graduated from a 2 year tech school? not an engineer!

I wouldn't call him an engineer either. But what about someone who has been a network engineer for 20 years?

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: TecHNooB

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: Jeff7

Originally posted by: JohnCU
calc 3 was as easy as 1st grade!

*evil glare

My test scores in Calc 1 were in the 65-70% range; luckily, I could manage a nearly perfect homework score, but it always took a long time to do.
Calc just made no sense intuitively.

Adding and multiplying, I can easily visualize what's going on.
But a derivative? x² d/dx = 2x
Well, ok, I can move numbers around, but I have no idea why I'm jumping through that hoop.

calc 1 was just intro, calc 2 was just integrals, calc 3 was just vectors, calc 4 is where it got hard

calc 4 o_o?

calc 4 is just partial differential equations.

 

[Safeway]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Safeway

A train engineer is a driver or operator. (I wiki'd it.) Are pizza guys Delivery Engineers? I mean, they control the speed of the vehicle, the handling, the locomotion and acceleration.

A network engineer -- I can agree with that if they came from an engineering/computer science background. Network engineers control system architecture. Makes sense.

(Edit: However, I would not call a sysadmin a network engineer. I'd reserve NetEng for large-scale infrastructure at a macro or micro level.)

From the wiki:


On many railroads, the career progression is one that starts as an assistant conductor (brakeman), conductor and finally, engineer. In the United States the engineer is required to be certified and re-certified every 2?3 years.

It looks to me like there is a job title called "engineer" that operates the locomotive.

I got owned. Thanks for learning me.

 

[Safeway]

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: TecHNooB

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: Jeff7

Originally posted by: JohnCU
calc 3 was as easy as 1st grade!

*evil glare

My test scores in Calc 1 were in the 65-70% range; luckily, I could manage a nearly perfect homework score, but it always took a long time to do.
Calc just made no sense intuitively.

Adding and multiplying, I can easily visualize what's going on.
But a derivative? x² d/dx = 2x
Well, ok, I can move numbers around, but I have no idea why I'm jumping through that hoop.

calc 1 was just intro, calc 2 was just integrals, calc 3 was just vectors, calc 4 is where it got hard

calc 4 o_o?

calc 4 is just partial differential equations.

Same path I took, except I took Vector Cal and PDEs the same semester. I tested out of Calculus 1 and 2, and went straight to Vector Calculus (Calculus 3) and PDEs (Calculus 4) my first semester.

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: Safeway

Same path I took, except I took Vector Cal and PDEs the same semester. I tested out of Calculus 1 and 2, and went straight to Vector Calculus (Calculus 3) and PDEs (Calculus 4) my first semester.

:Q nice, my HS didn't have much to offer in the math department so i had to start with college algebra first 😀

 

[Safeway]

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: Safeway

Same path I took, except I took Vector Cal and PDEs the same semester. I tested out of Calculus 1 and 2, and went straight to Vector Calculus (Calculus 3) and PDEs (Calculus 4) my first semester.

:Q nice, my HS didn't have much to offer in the math department so i had to start with college algebra first 😀

18 AP classes and tests. 🙂

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: Safeway

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: Safeway

Same path I took, except I took Vector Cal and PDEs the same semester. I tested out of Calculus 1 and 2, and went straight to Vector Calculus (Calculus 3) and PDEs (Calculus 4) my first semester.

:Q nice, my HS didn't have much to offer in the math department so i had to start with college algebra first 😀

18 AP classes and tests. 🙂

texas must have a hell of an education system.

 

[RapidSnail]

Originally posted by: Safeway

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Safeway

Laws exist in the U.S., in Canada and in South Africa that limit the use specific engineer titles, particularly the title of "Professional Engineer." However, most engineers in the U.S. do not become professional engineers. Titles indicating a specific, regulated branch of engineering, such as "civil engineer" or "mechanical engineer" are also regulated. Most U.S. states prohibit unlicensed persons from calling themselves an "engineer" or indicating branches or specialties not covered by the licensing acts. The IEEE's formal position on this is as follows:

"The title, Engineer, and its derivatives should be reserved for those individuals whose education and experience qualify them to practice in a manner that protects public safety. Strict use of the title serves the interest of both the IEEE-USA and the public by providing a recognized designation by which those qualified to practice engineering may be identified. The education and experience needed for the title, Engineer, is evidenced by

* Graduation with an Engineering degree from an ABET/EAC accredited program of engineering (or equivalent*), coupled with sufficient experience in the field in which the term, Engineer, is used; and/or

* Licensure by any jurisdiction as a Professional Engineer.

* A degree from a foreign institution (or the total education when one person holds a graduate degree in engineering but no accredited B.S. in engineering) can be evaluated through a service offered by ABET."

Despite these laws, many individuals with no formal education in engineering are still often called engineers because of a history of engineering work.

So what this say is:

1) ABET-accredited degree should not be an Engineer unless coupled with proper experience.
2) PE license gets you the Engineer title.
3) No formal degree, no Engineering title.
4) People continue to call themselves Engineers even though it is illegal.

You're referring to a narrow scope of engineering such as mechanical engineering or civil engineering. There are many other fields out there that have the title of engineer that do not involve those disciplines. For example, someone who operates a train is an engineer. Who are you to tell them that they can't use their rightful title even though that usage has been around longer than yours has?

These rules apply to all engineering fields.

And a train operator is a conductor.

I'm sorry but the train operator has not been confirmed by the Transition Metal Alliance of the Periodic Table (TMAPT). No certification, no title. Therefore he cannot be a real conductor. :roll:

 

[SandEagle]

I knew a few folks without degrees who had MCSEs and they referred themselves as engineers. lulz

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: SandEagle
I knew a few folks without degrees who had MCSEs and they referred themselves as engineers. lulz

Did they just have the paper cert or did they have a job as an engineer?

For those who work in the IT industry there are many jobs that have engineer in the title. You might not agree with it but you'd be arguing against an entire industry.

 

[Joemonkey]

what about corporations that offer certifications with engineer in the title?

MCSE = Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer

I have that certification, and my title at work is

SMS / Desktop Engineer

So am I an engineer? Is my education level even relevant?

 

[IronWing]

Choo choo driver


Edit: One who designs, based upon physical principles, and is accountable for their designs is an engineer.

 

[Safeway]

Originally posted by: Joemonkey
what about corporations that offer certifications with engineer in the title?

MCSE = Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer

I have that certification, and my title at work is

SMS / Desktop Engineer

So am I an engineer? Is my education level even relevant?

I don't want to get into it, but Microsoft is furthering the dilution of the title Engineer.

I guess Microsoft Certified Systems Technician wasn't as appealing.

 

[Ricochet]

Originally posted by: badkarma1399
I don't know why everyone wants to be an engineer anyways. They're all a bunch of socially awkward virgin-nerds anyways. 😛

Becaue you get a formal excuse to being one.