In many topics and many threads I run into something called libertarianism and I don't understand what the heck it really is. The best I can say is that it is some sort of impractical dream where people are free to pursue their own interests. How is that different than anarchy which I also technically don't understand.
What is a libertarian?
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judasmachine
Diamond Member
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crude definition is an anarchist, or a federal minimalist. But you have to remember there are right wing Libs, and left wing Libs. It's basically the opposite of an Authoritarian.
Wiki is your friend
Wiki is your friend
Two brands of libertarians, both are anachists.
The right-wingers wan't to preserve private property, the lefties don't.
The right-wingers wan't to preserve private property, the lefties don't.
in my book they are the conservatives during the clinton years, arguing for smaller government, less spending, upholding the constitution
I guess I am less interested in a word definition as what it is that makes them tick. What about traditional right and left causes them not really to fit, not that I really know what the left and right are. What do libertarians feel? That sort of thing if indeed that makes any sense. What are a libertarian's basic assumptions? How do they see the world...etc.
Hayabusa Rider
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I took one of those political alignment tests, and it said I am a Liberal Libertarian. I don't know what that is, but let's run with it.
I view govt as a needed evil. There is nothing inherently evil about govt in the abstract, however the present administration shows why I do not trust it. Whoever wields the One Ring of governmental power must be watched closely. I therefore want a government who interferes minimally, however when it does so it needs to represent the interests of the people, and not just the favored.
I like social safety nets, however there are limits. Arguing that one is entitled to a monthly check when there is no need goes no where with me. On the other hand there are those who need a hand. I'll pay taxes to get people on their feet, to build roads, to do what needs to be done. I'll do so for the poor, the ailing, the elderly.
I don't like the idea of governments forcing people to think in the "favored" way. If people are ignorant, then so be it as long as they don't seek to use their free speech to incite violence. What good is free speech if the only speech allowed is what is popular? It has been said that a free country is one where it is safe to hold unpopular views, and that would be ones I disagree with.
It's sort of a golden rule. How would I want to be treated? What do I want out of a society? That is what I would have for others.
Does that make me a liberal libertarian? I have no idea. It's what seems right to me.
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Libertarians have an almost infinite optimism in the wisdom and altruism of their fellow man, despite mountains of evidence to the contrary.
Scratch a libertarian and you will find a person whose ideology gleefully embraces the notion that such things as traffic lights are an unneccessary imposition of a dark and arbitrary facistic government power -- a tri-hued symbol of the dead hand of bureaucracy, if you will -- on the self sufficent yeoman spirit of the American individual.
Meanwhile, those of us stuck here on the endlessly messy and unnervingly uncategorizable miasma that is planet Earth, those of us who have lived here long enough to have actually tried to cross a busy intersection with a non-functioning traffic light put these earnest young ideologues in the same remainder bin with all the other angry, insistent ideologues -- communists, neocons, flat-earthers, Reaganites, dittoheads, neo-nazis, creationists -- and gladly if wearily accept a country where our meat is inspected.
Mention Hobbes to a libertarian and they will tell you Calvin was the real star of that comic strip, and mourn its short, brutal existence. Libertarians yearn for a return to a past that never was.
Scratch a libertarian and you will find a person whose ideology gleefully embraces the notion that such things as traffic lights are an unneccessary imposition of a dark and arbitrary facistic government power -- a tri-hued symbol of the dead hand of bureaucracy, if you will -- on the self sufficent yeoman spirit of the American individual.
Meanwhile, those of us stuck here on the endlessly messy and unnervingly uncategorizable miasma that is planet Earth, those of us who have lived here long enough to have actually tried to cross a busy intersection with a non-functioning traffic light put these earnest young ideologues in the same remainder bin with all the other angry, insistent ideologues -- communists, neocons, flat-earthers, Reaganites, dittoheads, neo-nazis, creationists -- and gladly if wearily accept a country where our meat is inspected.
Mention Hobbes to a libertarian and they will tell you Calvin was the real star of that comic strip, and mourn its short, brutal existence. Libertarians yearn for a return to a past that never was.
cKGunslinger
Lifer
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sandorski
No Lifer
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Decent summation. I always say they are believers in Marxist Communism, with a Capitalist twist. Most of the time they don't get the reference or the multitudal similarities between Communism/Libertarianism, but that's probably because the word "communism" is like the word "god", both evoke certain reactions based upon pre-conceptions.
They're people who have no real sense of how the world works, but want to sound like they're politically informed.
To me the term libertarian brings to mind this Thomas Jefferson quote; "Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others." The best definition I can think of is a person who champions this basic principle of liberty and who believes a limited government is necessary to protect us from those who would violate our rights.
It is really not that radical, naive or impractical as some might claim. It is kind of an extension of the individual code of ethics most of us live our daily lives by (golden rule). The majority of us engage in voluntary interactions and avoid using force to get others to do what we want.
I think this philosopy is a lot more widespread than is commonly thought, and there are many libertarian-minded people in both the republican and democratic parties. Because of this the Libertarian party is often attacked from both sides and we end up with the false claims that libertarianism is the same as anarchy or is just another crazy ideology. Infact the Libertarian party itself seems to generate a lot of bad press for libertarianism since most of the practical libertarians work within the major parties while the more zealous and perhaps extreme libertarians choose the Libertarian party.
It is really not that radical, naive or impractical as some might claim. It is kind of an extension of the individual code of ethics most of us live our daily lives by (golden rule). The majority of us engage in voluntary interactions and avoid using force to get others to do what we want.
I think this philosopy is a lot more widespread than is commonly thought, and there are many libertarian-minded people in both the republican and democratic parties. Because of this the Libertarian party is often attacked from both sides and we end up with the false claims that libertarianism is the same as anarchy or is just another crazy ideology. Infact the Libertarian party itself seems to generate a lot of bad press for libertarianism since most of the practical libertarians work within the major parties while the more zealous and perhaps extreme libertarians choose the Libertarian party.
This is, at least in a very generalized way, true.
The flip side is most people write us off at this point and don't even attempt to comprehend how we would rather have the system work.
A perfect example, which you partly mentioned, is regulation.
People attribute regulation = accountability. That's why after WorldCom and Enron they want to regulate the whole process even more. You must disclose this and you must do this or the feds will drag you to court for a day or two and make you pay XYZ (pocket change).
Regulation is a smoke screen. That's all. Smart companies get around regulation or ignore it outright because they stand to loose more if they follow the regulation then if they did not. Not always but this is generally true of violators.
What you need to do is deregulate everything. Sure if you want to pump thousands of gallons of toxic waste into a lake go ahead. However this is where accountability kicks in. You would need laws in place where it's not vague and its very clear what happens to someone who causes this sort of thing. Cause and Effect. You make 1000 sick and kill 20? No problem you and anyone involved in the whole process who willingly and knowingly did this goes to jail for the rest of their natural lives. You would also need to put in place whistleblower protection at all levels of business or government. Include victims in the court process and do not allow bargaining on charges without the express approval of all victims. Then not only have the court punish the criminals but also make them give restitution for their crimes so the victims won't be victimized yet again by taking the guilty to civil court.
The list goes on....
judasmachine
Diamond Member
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Rereading the thread, I think the fact that libertarianism is NOT the same as anarchy needs to be emphasized.
judasmachine
Diamond Member
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I posted the Wiki link, apparently no one is reading it through. Anarchy in it's general sense is appropriate but it doesn't come close to telling the whole story.
Yeah that wiki link is good, also the one on Classical Liberalism is good. In many ways libertarian is synonymous with classical liberalism.
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Or rightwingers who've read the constitution
Well, if you call leftwingers' bypassing of the 2nd amendment and other "outdated" parts reading.
Don Vito Corleone
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