What is a good VCR replacement these days (being able to record on removable media)

[Red Squirrel]

These days with PVRs, the issue is that they are basically a "magic box" and there's no way to get the data off. Well there's probably a way if you put the drive on a PC that can read that file system but there's no easy way.

My dad has always recorded key hockey games like All Star games, Stanley cup games etc... or even news blurbs of interesting events. It's kinda neat to be able to put in the VHS 20 years later and watch stuff like this.

But PVRs have made this concept harder. Is there a device that I might not be thinking of that would allow to do what a VCR could do? I'm thinking something that can record to a regular video file on a USB stick. I have a device that can do that with HDMI for video games but from what I've read there's some kind of security and it would not work with TV... honestly I have not tried it I just assume it won't work. But I'm thinking it would be nice if this device could also play the media. I want it to be easy for him.

Any ideas on how to achieve this? Basically I want a VCR like device that can record HD video to a USB stick instead of a tape.

 

[master_shake_]

what do you want to record?

live tv... don't know what else.

if it's like tv you're kinda screwed.

canada doesn't have clear qam channels and you need a set top box to decrypt them.

 

[linthat22]

I'd suggest getting an Alesis ADAT machine and running live TV into that. Let that thing house the HD information on the VHS tape and then dump it onto the device that you want to use (USB, removable HDD, etc) without fear of copy protection.

Granted, there'd be some up front cost, but nothing that isn't manageable.

 

[JeffMD]

You seem to think Todays PVRs are yesterdays cable DVRs. No such thing. If you buy a good PVR (DVR, what ever you want to call it now), they will most certainly let you copy recorded content off, usually right off a network share.

The only time DVR's were a walled garden was first generation, and CABLE provider issued cable boxes who locked out access to the files for obvious reasons.

 

[Red Squirrel]

You seem to think Todays PVRs are yesterdays cable DVRs. No such thing. If you buy a good PVR (DVR, what ever you want to call it now), they will most certainly let you copy recorded content off, usually right off a network share.

The only time DVR's were a walled garden was first generation, and CABLE provider issued cable boxes who locked out access to the files for obvious reasons.

Wait, are you saying it's possible to use a custom PVR that is not issued by the provider? How will it know how to talk with the provider, as I presume the protocols are all proprietary to whatever head end equipment is used and stuff like IPs are hard coded into the PVR, or is that not how it works?

 

[ControlD]

Wait, are you saying it's possible to use a custom PVR that is not issued by the provider? How will it know how to talk with the provider, as I presume the protocols are all proprietary to whatever head end equipment is used and stuff like IPs are hard coded into the PVR, or is that not how it works?

I use a Tivo that I own as opposed to renting a crappy box from my cable provider. I just had to get a cable card and tuning adapter from my cable provider.

I'm not sure I can actually copy stuff off however. I can download recorded shows to my iPad for example to watch on the go, but some are still blocked. I don't think I would be able to manipulate those files or read them without Tivo software however.

 

[Hinda65]

Is this what you use to capture your gameplay?

http://www.amazon.com/Hauppauge-1212-Definition-Personal-Recorder/dp/B0018LX0DY

I used it to transfer a bunch of recordings from my old DVR to DVD's...worked like a champ.

 

[JeffMD]

Wait, are you saying it's possible to use a custom PVR that is not issued by the provider? How will it know how to talk with the provider, as I presume the protocols are all proprietary to whatever head end equipment is used and stuff like IPs are hard coded into the PVR, or is that not how it works?

Cable cards handle that, and are required to be provided by the cable company when requested.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Is this what you use to capture your gameplay?

http://www.amazon.com/Hauppauge-1212-Definition-Personal-Recorder/dp/B0018LX0DY

I used it to transfer a bunch of recordings from my old DVR to DVD's...worked like a champ.

http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00PAM2C72?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00

That's the one I got. Would it actually work, I guess I should test it. I will have to try it with my PVR to see if I can get stuff off it (I'm using fibre so there's no cable that goes to the box, just ethernet) if it works I can try with my dad's (he's on cable).

Though some kind of solution that works like a VCR would be nice too, would be easier for my dad to use.

 

[GunsMadeAmericaFree]

We use a Mediasonic HW-150PVR (Homeworx). It cost about $33 shipped, and works great with over the air TV recording, just like a VCR used to.

I started out using a USB Flash drive to record everything. That works ok if you are mostly just recording 1 or 2 programs and watching them fairly regularly. However, once in a while we would get glitching on a channel that wasn't coming in strongly. We have since switched over to using an external 1 Gigabyte USB hard drive, and no longer have the issue.

My only real gripe after more than a year of use is that the remote control is cramped, with lots of little tiny buttons. When they release a new version, I'd like to see the main buttons larger like most VCR remotes had. Rewind, Play, Fast Forward, pause, stop, etc. - all of those should be much larger than the rest, since they are used so much.

Other than that, I think it is really great that for $33, I can record TV to a flash drive, then use handbrake to compress it, and take an episode or whatever over to my parents or friends to watch on their smart TV.

 

[Kaido]

We use a Mediasonic HW-150PVR (Homeworx). It cost about $33 shipped, and works great with over the air TV recording, just like a VCR used to.

^ yup

http://www.amazon.com/Mediasonic-HW-150PVR-HomeWorx-Converter-Recording/dp/B00I2ZBD1U

A 64gb USB stick is only $15:

http://www.amazon.com/PNY-Turbo-64GB-Flash-Drive/dp/B00FDUHDAC

Or a 2TB compact bus-powered drive is $80:

http://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-Canvio-Basics-Portable-Drive/dp/B00N2S6W86/

It's basically a digital VCR for unencrypted RF signals (like OTA antennas).

 

[Kaido]

My only real gripe after more than a year of use is that the remote control is cramped, with lots of little tiny buttons. When they release a new version, I'd like to see the main buttons larger like most VCR remotes had. Rewind, Play, Fast Forward, pause, stop, etc. - all of those should be much larger than the rest, since they are used so much.

fwiw, Logitech has this unit in their Harmony database, so you can use their universal remote control instead if you don't mind springing for it. Their Home Control kit with the dumb remote (my preferred remote - no screen or anything) is on sale for $99:

http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Harmony-Home-Control-Devices/dp/B00N3RFC4G

 

[Kaido]

I have a device that can do that with HDMI for video games but from what I've read there's some kind of security and it would not work with TV... honestly I have not tried it I just assume it won't work. But I'm thinking it would be nice if this device could also play the media. I want it to be easy for him.

Any ideas on how to achieve this? Basically I want a VCR like device that can record HD video to a USB stick instead of a tape.

If you're recording from HDMI, you'd need a combo setup. It's not cheap though, and you'll need a computer to act as the interface & storage unit (rather than a standalone device like a VCR). Basic setup is:

1. Computer with storage (for recording)
2. PVR software (similar to Tivo)
3. HDMI recorder
4. HDMI downconverter

Any reasonably new desktop or laptop will work (Windows 7 or later with at least a 2ghz dual-core CPU). Storage isn't much of an issue these days; you can get an 8TB USB 3.0 drive for $230:

http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Desktop-External-Storage-STDT8000100/dp/B00R45V3SW

For software, NextPVR gives you a Tivo-like experience:

http://www.nextpvr.com/

Not sure which HDMI recorder you have, but Hauppauge has one for $160:

http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hdpvr60.html

Last piece is an HD Fury Integral, which downconverts the HDCP spec to an earlier revision to allow recording. Fairly pricey at $250:

https://www.hdfury.com/shop/splitters/integral-4k60-444-600mhz/

Note that HD Fury was under legal fire for the Integral, which allows for recording of Netflix, 4K Bluray movies, etc., but so far their website is still up & they say that technically they are legal:

https://www.hdfury.com/12133/

There are other ways to do it, like with a standalone HDMI recorder (the type the film industry uses), but dumping it to a computer via easy software like NextPVR is the most convenient method. Downside is that it's expensive & has to record in realtime, and it's not just a simple turnkey box. It may be possible with something like this & the HDMI decoder, however:

http://www.amazon.com/HDML-Cloner-need-Capture-streaming-videos/dp/B00TF9MCXU

But with a solution like NextPVR, you can integrate it into KODI & get a remote control or touchscreen laptop and make it reasonably simple:

 

[rchunter]

I just use a hauppauge colossus 2 capture card and rip the commercials out with videoredo.

 

[Red Squirrel]

That PC setup actually looks really neat.... might consider that for myself at some point, will it do IPTV though? I don't have coax, it's all ethernet. My dad has coax though, and it's digital cable.

For my dad it would be overkill I think but worth checking into. Considering you can buy an off lease small form factor business computer for like under $300 these days, it's not too out of reach to set up.

As a side note, is there a way to get 8 hours of video on a DVD? My dad has been converting his VHS tapes as well but most of them are SLP (super long play). Though depending on what kind of device I set him up with I can always use that same format. Nothing beats having files on USB sticks as that won't go out of style, and you can always still put it in another format too.

 

[Ken g6]

For "simple like a VCR", you probably want a DVD player/recorder, like this relatively cheap Toshiba. The downsides are you can't re-record over the best media (DVD+R), and it's not HD.

 

[Kaido]

That PC setup actually looks really neat.... might consider that for myself at some point, will it do IPTV though? I don't have coax, it's all ethernet. My dad has coax though, and it's digital cable.

For my dad it would be overkill I think but worth checking into. Considering you can buy an off lease small form factor business computer for like under $300 these days, it's not too out of reach to set up.

As a side note, is there a way to get 8 hours of video on a DVD? My dad has been converting his VHS tapes as well but most of them are SLP (super long play). Though depending on what kind of device I set him up with I can always use that same format. Nothing beats having files on USB sticks as that won't go out of style, and you can always still put it in another format too.

Depends on how it's setup...if you're playing IPTV through a computer, you can just loop an HDMI output into the Integral to force recording of HDCP content. Probably would be better with one computer to stream & one to record. Or use something like an Xbox One if that supports it at some point, if it doesn't already. Is IPTV even available anywhere yet? Lately I've only done OTA.

You can get 8 hours of video onto a DVD by reducing the quality of the movie. The more you compress the video, the worse the picture quality will be, but compressing doesn't always mean it will come out bad. A single-layer DVD can do up to 20 hours and a dual-layer DVD can do up to 40. Here's a tutorial: (requires pay-for conversion software, otherwise you get a watermark logo)

http://www.ghacks.net/2013/10/28/burn-20-hours-video-single-long-play-dvd/

 

[Kartajan]

Another way to execute the desired intent (for OTA content only) is to get the Tablo (with a supported external HDD) You can then extract the recorded content automatically using the "Tablo Ripper" https://community.tablotv.com/t/tablo-ripper-automatically-download-new-recordings/2803

it isn't as cheap as other solutions, but it is a little bit easier to manage for the "set it and forget it" crowd...

 

[Red Squirrel]

There's only one OTA channel here, well 3 but 2 are super snowy/unwatchable, so something for only OTA would be useless. This would be for digital cable and IPTV. But I'm mostly worried about cable as this is for my dad and he has cable, I have IPTV... well, some sort of TV over IP, I don't know if it's actually called IPTV. The PVR uses ethernet. I just tried it on mine but it shows an error that it has trouble connecting to the TV, but it does show something on the TV that clearly comes from the PVR so guessing this is HDCP at play blocking it from going through. What I think I need is a device that can pretend to be a TV then spit the output back in a clean HDMI output then I can put the recorder in between that and the real TV, is there such thing? Will a splitter do this by nature? Maybe I can use a game recording device and a splitter, and Bob's my aunty? Trying to keep this cheap/simple for my dad. For playback, I'm not that worried, as I can check if whatever format it records in is watchable directly by plugging a USB stick in the TV, if yes I can just have a USB extension hooked up and then set that up for him. If not then I can figure something else out at that point. Basically he'll just buy USB sticks and treat them like VHS tapes. The nice thing with this is they won't degrade or go out of date. If he burns to DVD, then how long will that format be around, etc... A file is a file and should be practically permanent and can be backed up etc.

 

[Kaido]

I just tried it on mine but it shows an error that it has trouble connecting to the TV, but it does show something on the TV that clearly comes from the PVR so guessing this is HDCP at play blocking it from going through. What I think I need is a device that can pretend to be a TV then spit the output back in a clean HDMI output then I can put the recorder in between that and the real TV, is there such thing? Will a splitter do this by nature? Maybe I can use a game recording device and a splitter, and Bob's my aunty?

It all boils down to whether or not the signal is encrypted (re: the display error you ran into). If it is, you just need to stick an Integral unit in the pipeline to decode the HDCP signal to an earlier revision that allows recording (downside: $$$). If you get an HDMI splitter, I'd stick the Integral on the single wire going into the two-way splitter so that you don't run into HDCP problems on the TV or recorder.

Doing the Integral with a splitter, game recorder, and PC running NextPVR is probably the simplest setup you could get your dad. That way he can still watch TV like normal, but go over and click to record the show he wants on the computer (even a laptop would be fine). TL;DR - you're looking for something that, afaik, doesn't exist, so this is the next best thing.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Yeah that's what I'm thinking, so connect cable box HDMI out to splitter, and splitter will basically kill the HDCP right? From what I read that's what some people do, so I'll have to buy one, check reviews and go from there. Might be the easiest setup for him. To play back I'll figure that part after, I imagine he can just plug the USB on the TV and play it from there, otherwise I can set him up with a Raspberry Pi or something. I can probably even just put the whole thing together in some kind of custom case so it's like one device. i'll start with splitter and see how that goes.

I'm surprised no one has made a digital VCR though, I guess it would fail HDCP compliance and not be legal to sell?

 

[Kaido]

Yeah that's what I'm thinking, so connect cable box HDMI out to splitter, and splitter will basically kill the HDCP right? From what I read that's what some people do, so I'll have to buy one, check reviews and go from there. Might be the easiest setup for him. To play back I'll figure that part after, I imagine he can just plug the USB on the TV and play it from there, otherwise I can set him up with a Raspberry Pi or something. I can probably even just put the whole thing together in some kind of custom case so it's like one device. i'll start with splitter and see how that goes.

I'm surprised no one has made a digital VCR though, I guess it would fail HDCP compliance and not be legal to sell?

Correct, later versions of HDCP have tighter restrictions. You can get recorders (like Tivo), but the files typically stay on the machine (or are limited to streaming, but not copying).

If you're going to set him with a PC to record, just do playback from that too - run a second HDMI line from the PC to the TV. Piece of cake!

 

[Red Squirrel]

Just thought I'd report back and say that the splitter does work! I can record to a USB stick by adding my game recorder on the splitter.

So PVR -> splitter -> TV / recorder. I will have to try it at my dad's house, but I'm confident it will work as it did not work with mine before but with the splitter it does. Only thing is the quality is not 100% perfect, there is some compression, but I think it will be more than good enough for my dad, it's still better than an actual VHS.

Oh this is the one I got:

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B0089DSLMY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

One thing I just thought of too that this recorder could be nice for is recording PC gaming, I'd have to switch to HDMI to make things easier though. Heck, can probably even record a whole PC bootup sequence, great for troubleshooting.

Edit: Tried it at my dad's today, it worked great. He can plug the stick in the TV, or I can always show him how to burn to DVD from the computer. Told him to back it up on the computer too and then just keep it on USB. He actually likes this a lot as he can even bring it anywhere, just like a VHS tape. Got him to test like a 5 hour recording. My concern is the fat32 file size limitation, I hope the recording device is smart enough to automatically split the file and continue recording. I figured out I can put close to 24 hours on a 64 Gig USB. It seems to depend on the actual stream from the pvr though but it seemed to be about 1MB/second.

I'm kind of surprised nobody has invented a digital VCR yet actually. Just a self contained box with USB and a bunch of media ports for various forms of flash and it would have record and playback capability just like a regular VCR. May be a business opportunity there...

 

[JeffMD]

I'm kind of surprised nobody has invented a digital VCR yet actually. Just a self contained box with USB and a bunch of media ports for various forms of flash and it would have record and playback capability just like a regular VCR. May be a business opportunity there...

Thats..what a DVR/HTPC box is. DVR's are more of a closed loop proprietary box, but the windows media center with a capture card is literally a record and go platform.

With a USB capture device, you can build exactly what you want using an intel NUC (or other 5x5 box platform).

Reason why there is less demand for it is because there is less of a need for it. I don't have any recording apparatuses cause I don't need it, if I want to watch it, I can obtain it online some how.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Thats..what a DVR/HTPC box is. DVR's are more of a closed loop proprietary box, but the windows media center with a capture card is literally a record and go platform.

With a USB capture device, you can build exactly what you want using an intel NUC (or other 5x5 box platform).

Reason why there is less demand for it is because there is less of a need for it. I don't have any recording apparatuses cause I don't need it, if I want to watch it, I can obtain it online some how.

I was thinking something more in the price range and size of a VCR, not a whole blown computer, which is easily $1,000 when all is said and done. DVRs I would not count as you have no way to archive stuff, it's stuck inside the box and once it's full it's full.