What if Turkey revokes USA use of their sovereignity for military travel?

[mizzou]

That would suck

 

[nageov3t]

didn't we start the Iraqi war without it?

 

[mizzou]

didn't we start the Iraqi war without it?

Haven't we always had access to their airspace though? I'm wondering if the recent events will give pressure them politically to deny everything, that would be a big resource waste

 

[Genx87]

Is this the same Turkey that illegally occupies 40% of Cyprus?

We will just fly around them if needed.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Would that require a withdraw from NATO?

 

[BoberFett]

That would be great. I wish the rest of the world would follow suit. Then we'd have to close hundreds of bases worldwide. Think of how many hundreds of billions of dollars we could save.

 

[Darwin333]

Rubbish. EVERYONE can be bought and we have the credit to buy just about anyone off. It might cost us more but they won't cut us off.

 

[Patranus]

Turkey can have good luck left to their own devices with no U.S. military aid or money.

Secondly, if the U.S. flies through that desert anyways what are they going to do?

 

[ayabe]

Turkey considers itself a player now and wants to be respected. They called us out directly yesterday for our weak response to the whole thing.

A better play would have been to let the UN investigate and then just condemn the findings in Congress and nothing will happen. Not sure who made the call on that, HC or Obama but it wasn't the best choice.

I just don't see how we can politically sustain defending these Israeli blunders every few months. It wastes time and energy that we need to resolve our problems and promote our interests around the world. Right or wrong most of the world considers this to be Israel's fault and we have to acknowledge that even if we don't agree.

Notice how quickly this crap becomes our problem instead of just Israel's?

 

[Lemon law]

Ayabe, I agree with your first sentence and after that you quit making any sense.

Yesterday the UN security council did agree to a full and impartial investigation of the Israeli boarding in international waters. Turkey wanted far more but the US insisted on an investigation first.

Given that full and impartial investigation will take some time to complete, all it buys is some time for hot heads to cool off.

But even if we assume Israel is found 100% in the wrong in that investigation, IMHO, Obama has been diplomatically astute enough to retain the full range of options. But at this point in time, I would not bet any farms that the USA will use its security council veto to save Israel's butt even if Obama may soften some of the Israeli punishments.

Its also very probably that Israel will be soon forced to end the Gaza blockade as the ball will start finally rolling towards a viable Palestinian State. Depending upon Israeli cooperation or lack of it in that arena, will world reaction hinge on.

 

[sao123]

That would be great. I wish the rest of the world would follow suit. Then we'd have to close hundreds of bases worldwide. Think of how many hundreds of billions of dollars we could save.

american isolationism fails, and fails hard.
if you want to sit safely in the comfortable peace of your own home, you must pay the price for worldwide security and stability.

 

[Jaskalas]

american isolationism fails, and fails hard.
if you want to sit safely in the comfortable peace of your own home, you must pay the price for worldwide security and stability.

Right, we're doing a bang up job on Islamic terrorism and nuclear proliferation.

Maybe if we actually focused our efforts on our own soil....

 

[irishScott]

american isolationism fails, and fails hard.
if you want to sit safely in the comfortable peace of your own home, you must pay the price for worldwide security and stability.

Tell that to the rest of world, most of which is doing a fraction of what we're doing (if that). Everyone expects America to police the world, until we do, at which point we become the terrorists.

Seriously, we totaled more than half the manpower at Haiti. About 60% IIRC. The rest of the world, UN included, couldn't even come up with half. Pathetic.

 

[rudder]

What if Turkey missed a ton of $$$ from their Uncle Sam?

 

[rudder]

Ayabe, I agree with your first sentence and after that you quit making any sense.

Yesterday the UN security council did agree to a full and impartial investigation of the Israeli boarding in international waters. Turkey wanted far more but the US insisted on an investigation first.

Given that full and impartial investigation will take some time to complete, all it buys is some time for hot heads to cool off.

But even if we assume Israel is found 100% in the wrong in that investigation, IMHO, Obama has been diplomatically astute enough to retain the full range of options. But at this point in time, I would not bet any farms that the USA will use its security council veto to save Israel's butt even if Obama may soften some of the Israeli punishments.

Its also very probably that Israel will be soon forced to end the Gaza blockade as the ball will start finally rolling towards a viable Palestinian State. Depending upon Israeli cooperation or lack of it in that arena, will world reaction hinge on.

Israel has already been judged in the world court. Despite Israel saying they would board those ships (they are known to do what they say), the people on board filling out wills prior, weapons on board for the activists to attack the Israeli commandoso, etc. The ships not involved were escorted to Israel.

Turkey has always had some support for Israel.. but now we see the muslim influence in the Turkish government.

I don't think they will shut off their airspace to the U.S.

 

[SamurAchzar]

american isolationism fails, and fails hard.
if you want to sit safely in the comfortable peace of your own home, you must pay the price for worldwide security and stability.

Go tell that to the idiot Ron Paul. If US backs from world intervention, someone else will occupy that vacuum, and I'm sure the the interests of Americans won't top their list.

 

[BoberFett]

I eat paste.

And don't let anybody else tell you that you're not special, because you are. Just ask your mommy.

 

[ayabe]

Ayabe, I agree with your first sentence and after that you quit making any sense.

Yesterday the UN security council did agree to a full and impartial investigation of the Israeli boarding in international waters. Turkey wanted far more but the US insisted on an investigation first.

Given that full and impartial investigation will take some time to complete, all it buys is some time for hot heads to cool off.

But even if we assume Israel is found 100% in the wrong in that investigation, IMHO, Obama has been diplomatically astute enough to retain the full range of options. But at this point in time, I would not bet any farms that the USA will use its security council veto to save Israel's butt even if Obama may soften some of the Israeli punishments.

Its also very probably that Israel will be soon forced to end the Gaza blockade as the ball will start finally rolling towards a viable Palestinian State. Depending upon Israeli cooperation or lack of it in that arena, will world reaction hinge on.

That isn't real clear to me, we pushed for softening the language which leaves some daylight for Israel to do it's own investigation, here's the text of the statement:

The Security Council deeply regrets the loss of life and injuries resulting from the use of force during the Israeli military operation in international waters against the convoy sailing to Gaza. The Council, in this context, condemns those acts which resulted in the loss of at least ten civilians and many wounded, and expresses its condolences to their families.

The Security Council requests the immediate release of the ships as well as the civilians held by Israel. The Council urges Israel to permit full consular access, to allow the countries concerned to retrieve their deceased and wounded immediately, and to ensure the delivery of humanitarian assistance from the convoy to its destination.

The Security Council takes note of the statement of the UN Secretary-General on the need to have a full investigation into the matter and it calls for a prompt, impartial, credible and transparent investigation conforming to international standards.

The Security Council stresses that the situation in Gaza is not sustainable. The Council re-emphasizes the importance of the full implementation of Resolutions 1850 and 1860. In that context, it reiterates its grave concern at the humanitarian situation in Gaza and stresses the need for sustained and regular flow of goods and people to Gaza as well as unimpeded provision and distribution of humanitarian assistance throughout Gaza.

The Security Council underscores that the only viable solution to Israeli-Palestinian conflict is an agreement negotiated between the parties and re-emphasizes that only a two-State solution, with an independent and viable Palestinian State living side by side in peace and security with Israel and its other neighbours, could bring peace to the region.

The Security Council expresses support for the proximity talks and voices concern that this incident took place while the proximity talks are underway and urges the parties to act with restraint, avoiding any unilateral and provocative actions, and all international partners to promote an atmosphere of cooperation between the parties and throughout the region.

********************************
Bolded by me, that is part of what we negotiated over, seems to leave wiggle room for Israel to do it's own investigation..of itself, not necessarily the UN.

When taken with this statement made the day before by our UN Ambassador:

"The United States is deeply disturbed by the recent violence and regrets the tragic loss of life and injuries suffered among those involved in the incident last night aboard the Gaza-bound ships. We are working to ascertain the facts. We expect a credible and transparent investigation and strongly urge the Israeli government to investigate the incident fully."

*shrug*

 

[werepossum]

Israel has already been judged in the world court. Despite Israel saying they would board those ships (they are known to do what they say), the people on board filling out wills prior, weapons on board for the activists to attack the Israeli commandoso, etc. The ships not involved were escorted to Israel.

Turkey has always had some support for Israel.. but now we see the muslim influence in the Turkish government.

I don't think they will shut off their airspace to the U.S.

Got to give the Islamicists credit for preparation. Every time before that the Islamicists have managed to take political power the military has risen up and reasserted Turkey's secularist Constitution. This time the Islamicists took care to infiltrate the military first. I think somewhere around 2000 the Islamicists took control for good this time. Turkey is also threatening to send a military naval escort with the next blockade-busting flotilla, which if it happens will mean war. Turkey is making a bid as the rightful leader of the Muslim world, apparently having given up on becoming a part of the Western world via the EU, and has been for some time.

Turkey rescinded basing rights and military air space rights during the Iraq war. They no longer see the USA as a viable ally (or a credible threat), so I'll be surprised if they do not shut off their air space to us completely. For Israel it means loss of their only ally in the region, and coming as it does with Obama in office may well mean that either Israel has to accept incoming rockets as a fact of life, or commit to a war that will quite possibly go nuclear.