What If The Government Guaranteed You An Income?

[MongGrel]

You mean like the old original Star Trek type of society ?

I guess they all worked that way more or less.

 

[AViking]

If you want to now why these kinds of policies don't work look no further than Venezuela.

You really need people to earn a living.

 

[Sea Ray]

I recently stumbled upon this John Wayne quote from many decades ago but it definitely relates to today and the issue raised here:

I know all about that. In the late Twenties, when I was a sophomore at USC, I was a socialist myself—but not when I left. The average college kid idealistically wishes everybody could have ice cream and cake for every meal. But as he gets older and gives more thought to his and his fellow man's responsibilities, he finds that it can't work out that way—that some people just won't carry their load ... I believe in welfare—a welfare work program. I don't think a fella should be able to sit on his backside and receive welfare. I'd like to know why well-educated idiots keep apologizing for lazy and complaining people who think the world owes them a living. I'd like to know why they make excuses for cowards who spit in the faces of the police and then run behind the judicial sob sisters. I can't understand these people who carry placards to save the life of some criminal, yet have no thought for the innocent victim

It doesn't work that gov't can guarantee everyone cake and ice cream. John Wayne understood that

 

[norseamd]

I recently stumbled upon this John Wayne quote from many decades ago but it definitely relates to today and the issue raised here:



It doesn't work that gov't can guarantee everyone cake and ice cream. John Wayne understood that

never would of thought of him supporting liberal ideas

 

[Sea Ray]

never would of thought of him supporting liberal ideas

I didn't see much liberal thought in that quote

 

[norseamd]

I believe in welfare—a welfare work program

most conservatives would have never even gone that far

 

[alkemyst]

What if the government guaranteed you an income?

In general I'm not socialistic in philosophy. But more and more I'm starting to wonder if we are going about our safety net the wrong way. What if we got rid of Social Security, Welfare, Unemployment, Disability, and a host of other safety net programs and just simply paid everyone in America a minimum wage for simply existing? In the long run I think it might be less expensive to combine all these into a simple tax return program then the huge bureaucracies that we have in place to manage the programs we currently have.

Have you been to college and taken economics classes? I know this is DC, but some of these threads are just ignorant.

If you gave every person $100k today, within a flash of time that $100k would be worth nothing.

 

[fskimospy]

Have you been to college and taken economics classes? I know this is DC, but some of these threads are just ignorant.

If you gave every person $100k today, within a flash of time that $100k would be worth nothing.

That's a fallacious way of looking at it. There is actually a lot of economics research into a guaranteed income and it actually seems like a pretty good idea. It is not that you have a guaranteed income of $100k, but a guaranteed income that prevents poverty. That number is far lower than the national median income and I'm not aware of any economics research that says that doing so would mean that such an income would be worthless.

 

[alkemyst]

That's a fallacious way of looking at it. There is actually a lot of economics research into a guaranteed income and it actually seems like a pretty good idea. It is not that you have a guaranteed income of $100k, but a guaranteed income that prevents poverty. That number is far lower than the national median income and I'm not aware of any economics research that says that doing so would mean that such an income would be worthless.

This kind of economics was not taught at any real college of business.

Probably sounds great on Facebook though.

 

[shortylickens]

You guys need to take some econ classes or something.

There is no such thing as "free". Every product or service has some sort of cost associated with it. If you take from pile A to give to pile B, you are now short in pile A.
You need to make the piles BIGGER, not divide them up "fairly".
Theres no such thing as fair, either. There is only realistic and unrealistic.

Giving people money for simply existing does not solve any problems. It just makes them more difficult to analyze.

 

[MongGrel]

never would of thought of him supporting liberal ideas

You apparently don't know much of anything about John Wayne, and probably Ronald Reagan and a lot of people some seem to make idols out of in reality then.

 

[SMOGZINN]

It doesn't work that gov't can guarantee everyone cake and ice cream. John Wayne understood that

This is the strawman. No one is saying let them eat cake. But at least bread and water for everone is something we should aspire to.

Have you been to college and taken economics classes? I know this is DC, but some of these threads are just ignorant.

If you gave every person $100k today, within a flash of time that $100k would be worth nothing.

Yes. I have multiple degrees in 3 different fields. Your view of economics is simplistic to say the least. The zero sum economics you are talking about is economics in a bottle and that is nothing like the economics of modern America.

This kind of economics was not taught at any real college of business.

Probably sounds great on Facebook though.

No, it is probably not taught in any business college but then again nothing else is either.

 

[Vic]

Instead of a guaranteed income, what about guaranteed employment? Just like how the income would be a pittance, the employment would be menial.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Instead of a guaranteed income, what about guaranteed employment? Just like how the income would be a pittance, the employment would be menial.

That would be another thing I think is worth exploring. I've long thought that America needs to get back into building infrastructure. We could certainly use a door to door fiber network to every town in America as a public works effort. Sure it would be expensive, but it would be expensive in the right way.

It would have some problems, as not everyone is actually able to do any sort of meaningful work. There are plenty of people too disabled to do even menial labor, and something would have to be thought up for those people. But overall I think that giving everyone that is able meaningful work to do would be a good option.

 

[Ben90]

I'm more for tangible benefits instead of money. IE housing for the homeless, food, healthcare, etc. I don't think giving poor people money is necessarily the best way to lift them out of poverty. That bum you give $50 to on the street probably just uses it to get drunk. Pretty famous story where someone I knew gave a bum a $20 and he walked straight to the liquor store. I don't think just throwing money at a problem solves it.

I work at a convenience store. Often times people will buy chips or food for a bum that I'm not aware of outside. I've seen the bums come back in to return the food for beer.

 

[alkemyst]

I work at a convenience store. Often times people will buy chips or food for a bum that I'm not aware of outside. I've seen the bums come back in to return the food for beer.

I have had many homeless refusing bottled water, food, etc. They just want money. They usually have their own bottled water, food, etc stashed away somewhere. There is a guy from the neighborhood down the street that I know lives in a house...he has a different homeless sign each week.

Always with "EX VET!" "LOST MY HOUSE" "GOD BLESS AMERICA!"

He looks the part, but I have learned he has a newer vehicle he gets into and changes prior to doing so. I followed him home one day

 

[cabri]

I have had many homeless refusing bottled water, food, etc. They just want money. They usually have their own bottled water, food, etc stashed away somewhere. There is a guy from the neighborhood down the street that I know lives in a house...he has a different homeless sign each week.

Always with "EX VET!" "LOST MY HOUSE" "GOD BLESS AMERICA!"

He looks the part, but I have learned he has a newer vehicle he gets into and changes prior to doing so. I followed him home one day

Saw a scam similar to that being run in Broward county back in the 90's.
So organized that people would get picked up in a van after a 4-6 hr shift and moved 2-3 exist down the interstate.

Signs ask for anything, but you offer food and they look at you like you are crazy. I used to commute between Ft Lauderdale and Orlando. Kept boxes of chess/crackers in the vehicle to snack on as well as the packages of tuna & crackers. Hand those out at the intersection and they would throw them on the ground.

Offer some honest work around the yard for $20-30 and get a dirty look.

As long as people can get free $$, they do not want to work for the respect.

 

[alkemyst]

Saw a scam similar to that being run in Broward county back in the 90's.
So organized that people would get picked up in a van after a 4-6 hr shift and moved 2-3 exist down the interstate.

Signs ask for anything, but you offer food and they look at you like you are crazy. I used to commute between Ft Lauderdale and Orlando. Kept boxes of chess/crackers in the vehicle to snack on as well as the packages of tuna & crackers. Hand those out at the intersection and they would throw them on the ground.

Offer some honest work around the yard for $20-30 and get a dirty look.

As long as people can get free $$, they do not want to work for the respect.

Very true, I am a road warrior myself.

 

[Cozarkian]

No, it can't be comfortable, but it needs to be survivable.


No matter what you give those people it will be the same. Those people already live that way. If society gave them a living allowance and they spend it on booze and drugs then society can shrug our collective shoulders at them and accept that they choose to live that way.

We can at least make it harder for them to waste money on booze. What if instead of a paycheck, we had government housing with a TV in every room, government food rations, free medical care, free gym memberships, every citizen could have a cell phone (with gps tracking by the NSA), etc...

If you aren't screaming in fear right now, go read 1984.

 

[SMOGZINN]

We can at least make it harder for them to waste money on booze. What if instead of a paycheck, we had government housing with a TV in every room, government food rations, free medical care, free gym memberships, every citizen could have a cell phone (with gps tracking by the NSA), etc...

Because it wouldn't matter. If they want the booze bad enough they will find a way to get it. There are already people that sleep on the street when there are shelters that would take them in because those shelters will not let them drink and they can't go a night with out the booze.

If you aren't screaming in fear right now, go read 1984.

Maybe you need to re-read that book. It is about government control, not government handouts. It is about them controlling the information, not the housing. If 1984 is what you are afraid of then look at what is going on with net neutrality not welfare.

 

[alkemyst]

In reality, the government does guarantee one an income. That's the beauty of our capitalist society. In social/communism, income is a fallacy.

 

[Moonbeam]

Our world is built on torture, participate in the system or starve. It is a system built by self hate, I work and have something and that makes me better than you. You getting something for free devalues my self worth and I will make sure that doesn't happen. Only in a world where people have real self love will the poor be taken care of. That is the real issue that needs to be addressed. Your ideas fall on the ears of people stuffed full of programmed opinions the holding of which confers false self respect. You are asking people who have substituted belief in ego boosting delusions to let go of them. They can't do this because they would see their own misery they have plastered over with success in a sick system. The executioner loves his job because he is sure his head is not the one that will get the axe.

 

[sm625]

It is paying people not to work. It is a terribly destructive idea. The mere fact that so many people even consider it within the realm of reason is direct proof of how far gone and damaged this country is. It is absolutely unacceptable and inexcusable that so many people cannot see very clearly the road where this sort of thinking leads. It is a product of pure propaganda, the kind that leads to 20 million mass graves like those on the fields of the eastern front in WWII. If you do not wise up, that is exactly where you will find yourself at some point. If not you then certainly your children. Under no circumstance does it ever make sense to pay people not to work. A typical social security check is worth more than a full time minimum wage income. (When you factor in taxes, transportation expenses, etc) The end result from such folly can only be the exportation of all production and labor, followed by capital flight, followed by war and death. Period.

 

[Moonbeam]

It is paying people not to work. It is a terribly destructive idea. The mere fact that so many people even consider it within the realm of reason is direct proof of how far gone and damaged this country is. It is absolutely unacceptable and inexcusable that so many people cannot see very clearly the road where this sort of thinking leads. It is a product of pure propaganda, the kind that leads to 20 million mass graves like those on the fields of the eastern front in WWII. If you do not wise up, that is exactly where you will find yourself at some point. If not you then certainly your children. Under no circumstance does it ever make sense to pay people not to work. A typical social security check is worth more than a full time minimum wage income. (When you factor in taxes, transportation expenses, etc) The end result from such folly can only be the exportation of all production and labor, followed by capital flight, followed by war and death. Period.

This is a good example of what I mean, absolute certainty and nothing but air. His joy his authority.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

It is paying people not to work. It is a terribly destructive idea. The mere fact that so many people even consider it within the realm of reason is direct proof of how far gone and damaged this country is. It is absolutely unacceptable and inexcusable that so many people cannot see very clearly the road where this sort of thinking leads. It is a product of pure propaganda, the kind that leads to 20 million mass graves like those on the fields of the eastern front in WWII. If you do not wise up, that is exactly where you will find yourself at some point. If not you then certainly your children. Under no circumstance does it ever make sense to pay people not to work. A typical social security check is worth more than a full time minimum wage income. (When you factor in taxes, transportation expenses, etc) The end result from such folly can only be the exportation of all production and labor, followed by capital flight, followed by war and death. Period.

At least you have conviction, I guess.