What if terrorism is a product of occupation by foreign troops?

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: joshsquall
Name the last Christian who blew themselves up in a group of civilian men, women, and children.

I don't know if he was christian, but he certainly wasn't muslim: Timothy McVeigh.

According to McVeigh's first lawyer, McVeigh had ties to Islamic terrorists in the Phillipines, which he visited many times. I don't know if anyone has ever persued it enough to substantiate the claim though.

McVeigh himself was one of those Aryan, white supremecy loonies though, which would tend to cast doubts on him collaborating with Islamic terrorists. However, his father-in-law was a police officer in the Phillipines and owned an apartment that rented to a lot of arabs with supposed ties to terrorism. So who knows?

 

[Gunslinger08]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Rapidskies
If the US had never even set foot in the middle east extremist muslims would still hate us. They hate anything that doesn't follow there belief system, ie non-muslims. If we had never gotten involved in the middle east the enemy would be much more organized and powerful than they are now and we would have seen more 9/11's. I would rather see a battle on there land than in the US. Extremists might not like us interfering in middle east politics but they hate us because we are non-muslims.

Could the same not be said if you make non-muslims = non-chritians?
If it is a religious war as you state above, it takes two to fight, and by fighting on their land, you indeed are the agressor.

Name the last Christian who blew themselves up in a group of civilian men, women, and children.

OK City bombing?
IRA?

McVeigh and Nichols killed for neither religion nor revenge against an invading nation.. are (were, in the case of McVeigh) they even Christian? Did they ever claim it was for holy reasons? A holy war?

Members of the True/Real IRA (RIRA) also do not kill for religious reasons. They ARE motivated by removing British forces from Northern Ireland.

 

[imported_Tango]

Originally posted by: Rapidskies
If the US had never even set foot in the middle east extremist muslims would still hate us. They hate anything that doesn't follow there belief system, ie non-muslims. If we had never gotten involved in the middle east the enemy would be much more organized and powerful than they are now and we would have seen more 9/11's. I would rather see a battle on there land than in the US. Extremists might not like us interfering in middle east politics but they hate us because we are non-muslims.

Not true. Just consider how many far-eastern countries have a lifestyle even more distant from the muslims one, but have never in history be targeted by arab terrorism. If it was a matter of different beliefs China and Japan would be target number one.

Israel-Palestine is the only key of this war...

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: Tango
Not true. Just consider how many far-eastern countries have a lifestyle even more distant from the muslims one, but have never in history be targeted by arab terrorism. If it was a matter of different beliefs China and Japan would be target number one.

??? Xianxang (sp?) province in china has been experiencing terrorism for the past decade. Just because you don't hear about it on CNN doesn't mean it's not happening.

Originally posted by: Tango
Israel-Palestine is the only key of this war...

Yep and the only solution is to appease the terrorists and eliminate Israel, right? :roll:

What if terrorism is a product of occupation by foreign troops?

I think you are close, with two exceptions, it only works against democracies. Occupation (doesn't have to be foreign in the sense of extra-national) is the trigger, but once the terrorism begins it will continue as a method to pressure the democracy to make conscessions or grant power to those engaging in the terror. Usually those who engage in the terror seek power over those they claim to serve (or work for)

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: joshsquall
McVeigh and Nichols killed for neither religion nor revenge against an invading nation.. are (were, in the case of McVeigh) they even Christian? Did they ever claim it was for holy reasons? A holy war?

Members of the True/Real IRA (RIRA) also do not kill for religious reasons. They ARE motivated by removing British forces from Northern Ireland.

Actually McVeigh killed for revenge against the US and the forced attrocities he had to commit in the Gulf War.

Christians have no reason to label it as a holy war as they already have the backing of the US government, and Christians are not the ones being invaded. I have no doubts that if any nation invaded the US, Christians would declare a "holy war" and endorse the killing of these people, even with the expense of civilians.

True/Real Muslims are not violent either, if you are going to discount IRA bombings because they are extremists, at least give the same sympathy to 450 million people in the middle east, for the actions of a nutty few.

 

[NeenerNeener]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: joshsquall
McVeigh and Nichols killed for neither religion nor revenge against an invading nation.. are (were, in the case of McVeigh) they even Christian? Did they ever claim it was for holy reasons? A holy war?

Members of the True/Real IRA (RIRA) also do not kill for religious reasons. They ARE motivated by removing British forces from Northern Ireland.

Actually McVeigh killed for revenge against the US and the forced attrocities he had to commit in the Gulf War.

Christians have no reason to label it as a holy war as they already have the backing of the US government, and Christians are not the ones being invaded. I have no doubts that if any nation invaded the US, Christians would declare a "holy war" and endorse the killing of these people, even with the expense of civilians.

True/Real Muslims are not violent either, if you are going to discount IRA bombings because they are extremists, at least give the same sympathy to 450 million people in the middle east, for the actions of a nutty few.

QFT

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: joshsquall
McVeigh and Nichols killed for neither religion nor revenge against an invading nation.. are (were, in the case of McVeigh) they even Christian? Did they ever claim it was for holy reasons? A holy war?

Members of the True/Real IRA (RIRA) also do not kill for religious reasons. They ARE motivated by removing British forces from Northern Ireland.

Actually McVeigh killed for revenge against the US and the forced attrocities he had to commit in the Gulf War.

Christians have no reason to label it as a holy war as they already have the backing of the US government, and Christians are not the ones being invaded. I have no doubts that if any nation invaded the US, Christians would declare a "holy war" and endorse the killing of these people, even with the expense of civilians.

True/Real Muslims are not violent either, if you are going to discount IRA bombings because they are extremists, at least give the same sympathy to 450 million people in the middle east, for the actions of a nutty few.

We wouldn't declare a "holy war." We would just declare war and no cooperate with the invaders. Much of this country isn't religious at all.

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: joshsquall
McVeigh and Nichols killed for neither religion nor revenge against an invading nation.. are (were, in the case of McVeigh) they even Christian? Did they ever claim it was for holy reasons? A holy war?

Members of the True/Real IRA (RIRA) also do not kill for religious reasons. They ARE motivated by removing British forces from Northern Ireland.

Actually McVeigh killed for revenge against the US and the forced attrocities he had to commit in the Gulf War.

Christians have no reason to label it as a holy war as they already have the backing of the US government, and Christians are not the ones being invaded. I have no doubts that if any nation invaded the US, Christians would declare a "holy war" and endorse the killing of these people, even with the expense of civilians.

True/Real Muslims are not violent either, if you are going to discount IRA bombings because they are extremists, at least give the same sympathy to 450 million people in the middle east, for the actions of a nutty few.

We wouldn't declare a "holy war." We would just declare war and no cooperate with the invaders. Much of this country isn't religious at all.

You are completely out of touch with reality my friend.

 

[Gunslinger08]

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: joshsquall
McVeigh and Nichols killed for neither religion nor revenge against an invading nation.. are (were, in the case of McVeigh) they even Christian? Did they ever claim it was for holy reasons? A holy war?

Members of the True/Real IRA (RIRA) also do not kill for religious reasons. They ARE motivated by removing British forces from Northern Ireland.

Actually McVeigh killed for revenge against the US and the forced attrocities he had to commit in the Gulf War.

Christians have no reason to label it as a holy war as they already have the backing of the US government, and Christians are not the ones being invaded. I have no doubts that if any nation invaded the US, Christians would declare a "holy war" and endorse the killing of these people, even with the expense of civilians.

True/Real Muslims are not violent either, if you are going to discount IRA bombings because they are extremists, at least give the same sympathy to 450 million people in the middle east, for the actions of a nutty few.

We wouldn't declare a "holy war." We would just declare war and no cooperate with the invaders. Much of this country isn't religious at all.

You are completely out of touch with reality my friend.

Agreed. You and your friends may not be religious, but there are about 200 million Americans that choose to practice some religion.

 

[irwincur]

Not true. Just consider how many far-eastern countries have a lifestyle even more distant from the muslims one, but have never in history be targeted by arab terrorism. If it was a matter of different beliefs China and Japan would be target number one.

Historically, China has had extensive relations with the Middle East and Africa - hence, Muslim leaders. Many of the dynastic kings were also Muslims and large stretches of the unified nation fell under Muslim control.

They are closer than you would think, and there are historic ties. They have also been isolationist for the last century and have tried not to piss in anyones Cheerios. However, that is all changing and I would suspect that China will eventually have to face the same thing, especially considering that there are Muslim breakaway regions on the Western end of China. I suspect we see a few Chechnya like invasions.

 

[Genx87]

Political oppression is a big factor.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: joshsquall
Name the last Christian who blew themselves up in a group of civilian men, women, and children.

I don't know if he was christian, but he certainly wasn't muslim: Timothy McVeigh.

According to McVeigh's first lawyer, McVeigh had ties to Islamic terrorists in the Phillipines, which he visited many times. I don't know if anyone has ever persued it enough to substantiate the claim though.

McVeigh himself was one of those Aryan, white supremecy loonies though, which would tend to cast doubts on him collaborating with Islamic terrorists. However, his father-in-law was a police officer in the Phillipines and owned an apartment that rented to a lot of arabs with supposed ties to terrorism. So who knows?

There is a book out about this. The rumor goes Clinton saw McVeigh as a way to crack down on groups around the country that oppose the govt. If you think about all of the govt attacks on groups around the country during Clintons term it really makes the conspiracy theory hold some water.

Supposedly these Islamic terrorist ties were covered up and supressed. In a way the basis of the attack carries a lot of similarities to what AQ has done in the past and the amount of explosives used IMO should have taken more than 2 men to carry out like the govt claims.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: irwincur

Not true. Just consider how many far-eastern countries have a lifestyle even more distant from the muslims one, but have never in history be targeted by arab terrorism. If it was a matter of different beliefs China and Japan would be target number one.

Historically, China has had extensive relations with the Middle East and Africa - hence, Muslim leaders. Many of the dynastic kings were also Muslims and large stretches of the unified nation fell under Muslim control.

They are closer than you would think, and there are historic ties. They have also been isolationist for the last century and have tried not to piss in anyones Cheerios. However, that is all changing and I would suspect that China will eventually have to face the same thing, especially considering that there are Muslim breakaway regions on the Western end of China. I suspect we see a few Chechnya like invasions.

I have a feeling the Muslim world wont want to mess with China just yet.
China doesnt really seem to have a problem simply exterminating what gets in their way.
The question is will the west defend Islam from China is such a show down occurred?

My guess is yes.

 

[Gunslinger08]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: irwincur

Not true. Just consider how many far-eastern countries have a lifestyle even more distant from the muslims one, but have never in history be targeted by arab terrorism. If it was a matter of different beliefs China and Japan would be target number one.

Historically, China has had extensive relations with the Middle East and Africa - hence, Muslim leaders. Many of the dynastic kings were also Muslims and large stretches of the unified nation fell under Muslim control.

They are closer than you would think, and there are historic ties. They have also been isolationist for the last century and have tried not to piss in anyones Cheerios. However, that is all changing and I would suspect that China will eventually have to face the same thing, especially considering that there are Muslim breakaway regions on the Western end of China. I suspect we see a few Chechnya like invasions.

I have a feeling the Muslim world wont want to mess with China just yet.
China doesnt really seem to have a problem simply exterminating what gets in their way.
The question is will the west defend Islam from China is such a show down occurred?

My guess is yes.

That's a good question. Makes me think about the "Ender's Shadow" series by Orson Scott Card.

Muslim nations are definitely good allies to have.

 

[piasabird]

You will note that there are not many Democratic Muslim countries. But even in countries like Greece where they have some form of democracy or the appearance of it they still get attacked by extremists. A lot of muslim countries have a lot of oppression because they have a tyranical form of government and oppress their own people. This makes for some angry subjects.

 

[imported_Condor]

What if terrorism is a product of Muslim retards thinking that Americas use of drugs, sex without having sixteen kids, homosexual sex, etc make it the sin capitol of the world that must be destroyed? Just watched a CNN guest on Larry King that said that is the reason we were attacked.

 

[raildogg]

Tell me about India/Pakistan. Tell me about the Phillipines. Tell me about Thailand. Tell me about the radical Islamic terrorism in Africa where Churches are being destroyed.

Please do tell.

Also tell me why muslims cannot seem to get along with their neighbors in almost every part of the world. Are they more special? Why can't they seem to be able to get along with anyone?

Why are muslim terrorists bombing hindu temples in the Indian side of Kashmir each day? Why are muslim terrorists blowing up markets in the Phillipines?

 

[conjur]

Quite a few Muslims living in the U.S., eh raildogg? Don't see them blowing themselves up.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: conjur
Quite a few Muslims living in the U.S., eh raildogg? Don't see them blowing themselves up.

They love our freedom.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: raildogg
Tell me about India/Pakistan. Tell me about the Phillipines. Tell me about Thailand. Tell me about the radical Islamic terrorism in Africa where Churches are being destroyed.

Please do tell.

Also tell me why muslims cannot seem to get along with their neighbors in almost every part of the world. Are they more special? Why can't they seem to be able to get along with anyone?

Why are muslim terrorists bombing hindu temples in the Indian side of Kashmir each day? Why are muslim terrorists blowing up markets in the Phillipines?

You have a point. If you look at virtually every single political hotspot across the globe, there's a Muslim population bordering some other group. I think perhaps Islam is at war with itself and everyone in the vicinity gets sucked in somehow.

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: conjur
Quite a few Muslims living in the U.S., eh raildogg? Don't see them blowing themselves up.

Quite a few muslims living in europe as well, and they are not blowing themselves up ... but that doesn't mean a thing. We're talking about a religion which has become very violent in the past few decades, and anyone with any bit of sense will realize that.

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
You have a point. If you look at virtually every single political hotspot across the globe, there's a Muslim population bordering some other group. I think perhaps Islam is at war with itself and everyone in the vicinity gets sucked in somehow.

Yes, Islam is at war with itself and others. There is major change going in within Islam and we should let whatever happens happen on its own. We should stay out of their business. The more we get involved in their religion and decision-making, the more problems for us and them. Muslims need to realize that they better stand up for their religion and prevent the terrorists from hijacking it. Or even the radical clerics, such as the puppet thug of Iran, al-Sadr. Or even his master thug mullahs in Iran.

These people have or are trying to hijack Islam. I'm not sure if its the latter or not.

 

[Chinadefender]

It recalls the thought of Huntington's Conflicts of Civilizations.

 

[Zebo]

Either occupation or real or percieved injustices give rise to these militants ...

McVeigh stated his reasons. In his thinking it was occupation at home by overzealous FBI murdering women and children in cold blood @ rubi ridge and Waco.

Osama and his crew have clearly stated in numerous public pronoucements it's about us being inside muslim countries. First in SA got the ball rolling, then others like kuwait, dubai, Qutar, Iraq and afghanistan have percipitated it.

We'll learn to drop the stiff upper lip when a nuke detonates in a big 5 city, it's just a matter of time with all the people we piss off and the way technology is... the terrorist can create conditions like a garrison state, a perpetual war state etc where it's not worth pursuing to most freedom/justice loving americans and common sense prevails. Then we'll go back to exactly what our wise founders knew long ago.
----------------------------

"Wherever the standard of freedom and independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will [America's] heart, her benedictions and her prayers be. But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy....

She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all.

She is the champion and vindicator only of her own.

She will commend the general cause by the countenance of her voice, and the benignant sympathy of her example.

She well knows that by once enlisting under other banners than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself beyond the power of extrication, in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy, and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom. The fundamental maxims of her policy would insensibly change from liberty to force....

She might become the dictatress of the world. She would be no longer the ruler of her own spirit....
" President John Quincy Adams

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I would just have to go 'Oh, duh".

 

[dualsmp]

Let's briefly examine who these major terrorist groups are controlled by.

1.) The IRA -- Controlled by MI5

http://www.sundayherald.com/25646

2.) PLO -- Controlled by Mossad

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/fakealqaeda

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/terrorist.html

3.) al Qaeda -- Controlled by CIA, Mossad, MI5

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2115371.stm

http://prisonplanet.com/cia_agent_met_bin_laden_in_july.html

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/Distribu...irect_Artifact/0,4678,0-578140,00.html

http://www.prisonplanet.com/omar_al_faruq_recruited_by_the_cia.htm

http://prisonplanet.com/terrorist_worked_with_fbi.html

http://prisonplanet.com/taliban_defector_was_cia_informant_for_years.html