You have no point.
They aren't in power in any section of government anymore, there is no reason for them even attempt. Their goal should be to gain back power, then push the ideas forward.
That is how American government works.
You have no point.
They aren't in power in any section of government anymore, there is no reason for them even attempt. Their goal should be to gain back power, then push the ideas forward.
That is how American government works.
umbrella39
Lifer
- Jun 11, 2004
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I think you picked a poor example. Social Security is hardly a blip on the radar.
See For Yourself
Bush's idea sank very quickly and didn't have much support at all, other than by young republicans who hate the idea of paying taxes on something that don't think they will ever see.
As for the GOP platform for 2008? What is that going to be exactly? Iraq? Anchor. Their handling of the economy? Another anchor. All the dems need is to sell a few ideas like jobs, immigration reform, education, dropping health care costs, repealing tax cuts, prescription drug cost reform, and the budget deficit and I think they will do just fine. Terrorism and fear can only be go so far. But they need a slick salesman. Not sure if they can muster one up. Notice I didn't say a slick saleswoman
See For Yourself
Bush's idea sank very quickly and didn't have much support at all, other than by young republicans who hate the idea of paying taxes on something that don't think they will ever see.
As for the GOP platform for 2008? What is that going to be exactly? Iraq? Anchor. Their handling of the economy? Another anchor. All the dems need is to sell a few ideas like jobs, immigration reform, education, dropping health care costs, repealing tax cuts, prescription drug cost reform, and the budget deficit and I think they will do just fine. Terrorism and fear can only be go so far. But they need a slick salesman. Not sure if they can muster one up. Notice I didn't say a slick saleswoman
personally, I'd rather have no ideas than bad ideas :thumbsup:
in defense of the democratic party -- and I hate doing this because I'm not a democrat -- but there's really no point in offering up good ideas in congress when they'll be voted down on partisan lines and if they have an election platform for the mid-terms in '06, they probably plan on keeping it in the closet as long as possible so as to not give the Republicans a year and a half to plan a counter to it.
in defense of the democratic party -- and I hate doing this because I'm not a democrat
-- but there's really no point in offering up good ideas in congress when they'll be voted down on partisan lines and if they have an election platform for the mid-terms in '06, they probably plan on keeping it in the closet as long as possible so as to not give the Republicans a year and a half to plan a counter to it.
Stunt
Diamond Member
- Jul 17, 2002
- 9,717
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Liberals tend to have lots of ideas, more so than the right in my opinion. The problem with liberals are they aren't as stubborn; this creates debate and uncertainty amongst themselves. The message is not communicated as effectively and it hurts them.
Until strong leadership takes hold, these ideas will not be noticed.
Now you may already look down on the prospects of this happening, but all that means is you know liberals have ideas; and you have decided already you don't like them.
I have every right to hate Bush. He has poor leadership, speaking skills; not a fiscal conservative and has messed social ideals.
Your statement is totally unrelated. Bush hating has nothing to do with the Liberal lack of leadership. For example, if i kick you in the nuts, you don't need to prepare a counter attack to know you didn't like it
Until strong leadership takes hold, these ideas will not be noticed.
Now you may already look down on the prospects of this happening, but all that means is you know liberals have ideas; and you have decided already you don't like them.
I have every right to hate Bush. He has poor leadership, speaking skills; not a fiscal conservative and has messed social ideals.
Your statement is totally unrelated. Bush hating has nothing to do with the Liberal lack of leadership. For example, if i kick you in the nuts, you don't need to prepare a counter attack to know you didn't like it
Xonoahbin
Senior member
- Aug 16, 2005
- 884
- 1
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Part two: social security and medical costs.
Social security will have to be dealt with later rather than now. Our economy must be restrengthened before we can worry about social security. 6-8 years from now, we can worry about social security.
Medical costs: a shame upon America. Our healthcare system is terrible. Millions uninsured, millions who can't afford their medicine, millions under Medicaid that will soon be unable to get any kind of insurance help on their prescriptions. Going back to trade relations, we could up trade with Canada and get rid of the $200 per pill that some prescriptions carry. Unacceptable. I was uninsured for years, in a middle class family. How is it right that only the people that can actually afford the medical care and prescriptions can get insurance without giving out half their paycheck? Unacceptable. $200 per month for a family of three to be insured, maybe $50 per month that the insurance pays to us. But, be uninsured and it'll come back to bite you in the rear end. Unacceptable.
Social security will have to be dealt with later rather than now. Our economy must be restrengthened before we can worry about social security. 6-8 years from now, we can worry about social security.
Medical costs: a shame upon America. Our healthcare system is terrible. Millions uninsured, millions who can't afford their medicine, millions under Medicaid that will soon be unable to get any kind of insurance help on their prescriptions. Going back to trade relations, we could up trade with Canada and get rid of the $200 per pill that some prescriptions carry. Unacceptable. I was uninsured for years, in a middle class family. How is it right that only the people that can actually afford the medical care and prescriptions can get insurance without giving out half their paycheck? Unacceptable. $200 per month for a family of three to be insured, maybe $50 per month that the insurance pays to us. But, be uninsured and it'll come back to bite you in the rear end. Unacceptable.
Suppose something like "If I was President, I'd invade Iran." or "If I was President, I'd require to poor to provide 10 years hard labor to the rich." would meet with your approval?
Originally posted by: Stunt
Liberals tend to have lots of ideas, more so than the right in my opinion. The problem with liberals are they aren't as stubborn; this creates debate and uncertainty amongst themselves. The message is not communicated as effectively and it hurts them.
Until strong leadership takes hold, these ideas will not be noticed.
Now you may already look down on the prospects of this happening, but all that means is you know liberals have ideas; and you have decided already you don't like them.
I have every right to hate Bush. He has poor leadership, speaking skills; not a fiscal conservative and has messed social ideals.
Your statement is totally unrelated. Bush hating has nothing to do with the Liberal lack of leadership. For example, if i kick you in the nuts, you don't need to prepare a counter attack to know you didn't like it
What are you talking about?
Bush hating isn't related to whether liberals have ideas? What post are you reading?
I said, "Liberals seem to be spending far more energy on outwardly expressing hatred for Bush than coming up with and expressing ideas that differ from his."
umbrella39
Lifer
- Jun 11, 2004
- 13,816
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Originally posted by: ValuedCustomer
lemme see if I got this straight - the party not in power is easy to blame for running the country in the ground?? Whu? :shocked: - how exactly does that work? - whatever, this is a great example of why I don't post in this forum anymoreOriginally posted by: umbrella39
Originally posted by: ntdz
That topic made me laugh, liberals can't think up good ideas
Very easy to blame the party not in power for running the country into the ground.
I missed an extra NOT in there. Add it between "for" and "running". To suggest that the part IN control IS running the country into the ground. Why blame the dems for lack of ideas when their ideas don't even make it to the floor for debate.
Actually, your topic started with liberals, then moved to Democrats within the post (kind of the same), then, at the end, you switched to anti-Bushites. Maybe you should stick to one thing?
You know what I find just illuminating as hell? The fact that at least a handful of good non-righty ideas that should at least spawn SOME discussion have gone totally ignored by every liberal-basher in here. I guess you guys aren't any more interested in coming up with ideas. Just bitch about the other guys.
This is the problem with politics, most people don't seem to approach it with the mentality of scientists or engineers trying to solve an important problem, they approach it like a bunch of Oakland Raiders fans trying to figure out how they can bash the 49ers. They make a lot of noise about poor defensive strategy, weak offense, and special teams that give new meaning to the word "special", but their motives aren't about honestly critiquing the game.
This is the problem with politics, most people don't seem to approach it with the mentality of scientists or engineers trying to solve an important problem, they approach it like a bunch of Oakland Raiders fans trying to figure out how they can bash the 49ers. They make a lot of noise about poor defensive strategy, weak offense, and special teams that give new meaning to the word "special", but their motives aren't about honestly critiquing the game.
Well while we're giving suggestions for each other, maybe you should spend more time composing productive sentences instead of carping at the idiosyncracies in my post.
Most liberals are democrats
Most democrats are liberals
Most democrats and liberals do not support Bush
Liberals = people with what Americans understand as a generally left of center viewpoint on issues, everyone knows what it means, to nitpick about it just means you're trying to be a turd.
Turd = poop, as well as someone who wants to make things unnecessarily difficult in an obnoxious manner
And I never disagreed with the first two, but the third does not equal liberal.
Bush has a horrific spending record.
Bush refuses to veto any bill - even when the earmarks are in the thousands. (Reagan would veto them if it had over 100)
Bush has done nothing to guarantee that his tax cuts will last longer than his term.
Bush has increased corporate welfare.
Bush's illegal immigration policy is "Welcome to the United States."
Bush has almost beaten Johnson on spending increases in every area.
Which one of those issues is liberal?
and enact these good ideas how???
The Republicans do not accept good ideas, they are only for the destruction of this Country for their own personal gain.
- Oct 9, 1999
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Sentence fragment permission ON/
Frackal, your question bears repeating. And answering. One reason you don't think liberals have any ideas is that you're so busy branding dissent treason that you never stop to listen.
Liberals have, to a woman and man, put their money and their collective effort where their mouth is, trying to save the American idea of the republic from the idiot imperial Presidency. You see, irony of ironies, liberals are the true conservatives of today:
-- Liberals believe that any and all 200 billion plus dollar a year excellent adventure should be pay as you go, with all the social and political implications that that has in a democracy.
The "so called" conservatives of TODAY take the radical elitist postion that the President (Daddy) knows best. They ACT AS IF THEY BELIEVE in the retro monarchist view of the Sun King. "He must not be questioned!" These radicals, so wholly outside of the yeoman egailitarian American tradition. piss me off with their lemming like passion for DADDY.
-- Liberals believe in our settled law, the long march of progress that finally gave each individual American woman the right to have dominion over her body, not the state -- and because she alone must face the full brunt of the consequences between herself and her God or alone. her conscience -- over every collection of cells within.
It was one of the high water marks in the real life application of one of our fundamental Constitutional ideals., that our Federal government should never allow any one religious group to to use the punitive power of the state to mpose their religious beliefs upon the entire citizenry.
Conservatives push the nouveau and radical notion that individual human life begins at conception, and the nanny state big government view that "jack booted bureaucrats in Washington" should be able to tell any and every individual American woman what and what she is not allowed to do with her body from even THIS particular moment: When she is stalked in a subway corridor, dragged behind a concrete abutment, and raped at knifepoint by a slobering stranger.
-- Liberals believe in the Constitution of the United States of America. Never let any pandering propagandist convince you otherwise! In the following fight they are defending the LETTER of the constitution against radical extremist "so called' conservatives.
Liberals believe that the power to DECLARE WAR is vested in Congress, as so stated in our Constitution.
The so called conservatives of today want you to believe in the radical extremist idea that some nebulous congressional authorization of force will now be sufficent in our brave new world -- All hail the omnipotent leader and his cabal! -- for us to invade another soverign nation. The Constiution clearly tells all Americans otherwise.
It is the biggest, boldest smokescreen of our time that today's so called conservatives hide behing the embattled image of their idiot boy king, hoping, hoping, hoping that today's consumer good satiiated citizen will buy their tendentious BS, and never notice the strawman behind the curtain with the strings . . .
Todays so called conservatives in Junior's junta are the true extremist radicals, PT Barnum confident you'll never notice the far reaching implications of their elitist, Bozo Knows Best palace coup.
They think you're as dumb and blindly compliant as zendari and Pabster.
As an American, I resent that implication with every fiber of my freedom loving soul.
/Sentence fragment permission OFF
Originally posted by: umbrella39
Originally posted by: ntdz
That topic made me laugh, liberals can't think up good ideas
So what are your good ideas? Just curious. Very easy to blame the party not in power for running the country into the ground. But, we all know who is doing that, now don't we. If you were a democrat, how do you propose to run your ideas through a republican run congress? What is the sense in expressing ideas when you know for certain they won't be heard or will be voted down? To the OP, what is the sense in this post exactly? Trying to pass everyone off on just hating Bush is just so predictable. How about some originality in your next OP?
Here's an idea. WIN AN ELECTION.
I hate Bush.... now I'm tired and must sleep so I can get up and hate Bush again tommorrow. :roll:
Come on man, eloquent writing, but I'm not a Christian and even I'm unsure about whether abortion constitutes murder or not... The question does come down to "when does life begin" and I cannot answer it with any personal satisfaction so I don't take a position on abortion. (ie, I won't vote for or against someone because of abortion views.)
- Oct 9, 1999
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C'mon, man. You asked for a good liberal idea.
Defending a woman's right to choose vs. a religious pressure group's right to use the punitive power of our federal government to deny her her choice is a prime example of today's liberals upholding true conservatism, as outlined in our Constitution.
Who's the REAL radical here? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: umbrella39
Originally posted by: ntdz
That topic made me laugh, liberals can't think up good ideas
So what are your good ideas? Just curious. Very easy to blame the party not in power for running the country into the ground. But, we all know who is doing that, now don't we. If you were a democrat, how do you propose to run your ideas through a republican run congress? What is the sense in expressing ideas when you know for certain they won't be heard or will be voted down? To the OP, what is the sense in this post exactly? Trying to pass everyone off on just hating Bush is just so predictable. How about some originality in your next OP?
Here's an idea. WIN AN ELECTION.
That's very clever.
I must ask you this question though, I suppose you initially voted for Bush in 2000, assuming you were old enough, because he was a compassionate conservative. The GOP had a difficult task in convincing that the last 8 years of general peace and prosperity under democratic leadership (though caused by many factors) could be improved by republican leadership in the white house.
Bush touted giving a lot of the surplus back as a tax cut, while Gore favored some tax cuts and some paying back of the national debt. Bush also opposed the "tax and spend" mentality of the democrats. On the issue of nation building, he had stated that he did not believe that to be the task of the united states. Spoken like a true conservative.
Since then, he has continued to cut taxes, even through a tremendous non-military spending increase, in addition to the two wars currently being fought. To me, that sounds like spend and borrow.
I know i'm only a 3rd year economics major, but paying for current expenditures with borrowed money tends to cost more in the long run. I was in support of the tax cuts after the recession, simply to boost the economy, but I don't see the tax cuts being permanently necessary. After all, people did quite well under Clinton era taxes, and repealing the tax cuts for the top income earners will not destroy our economy.
As a real conservative, how could you truly support him? I understand voting for him over Kerry (although less spending would get done w/ democratic pres and republican congress), but did your opinion of the world change so much in 4 years that all of the true conservative rhetoric has been so overblown by the neoconservative agenda?
What happened to compassionate conservative?
Originally posted by: NJDevil
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: umbrella39
Originally posted by: ntdz
That topic made me laugh, liberals can't think up good ideas
So what are your good ideas? Just curious. Very easy to blame the party not in power for running the country into the ground. But, we all know who is doing that, now don't we. If you were a democrat, how do you propose to run your ideas through a republican run congress? What is the sense in expressing ideas when you know for certain they won't be heard or will be voted down? To the OP, what is the sense in this post exactly? Trying to pass everyone off on just hating Bush is just so predictable. How about some originality in your next OP?
Here's an idea. WIN AN ELECTION.
That's very clever.
I must ask you this question though, I suppose you initially voted for Bush in 2000, assuming you were old enough, because he was a compassionate conservative. The GOP had a difficult task in convincing that the last 8 years of general peace and prosperity under democratic leadership (though caused by many factors) could be improved by republican leadership in the white house.
Bush touted giving a lot of the surplus back as a tax cut, while Gore favored some tax cuts and some paying back of the national debt. Bush also opposed the "tax and spend" mentality of the democrats. On the issue of nation building, he had stated that he did not believe that to be the task of the united states. Spoken like a true conservative.
Since then, he has continued to cut taxes, even through a tremendous non-military spending increase, in addition to the two wars currently being fought. To me, that sounds like spend and borrow.
I know i'm only a 3rd year economics major, but paying for current expenditures with borrowed money tends to cost more in the long run. I was in support of the tax cuts after the recession, simply to boost the economy, but I don't see the tax cuts being permanently necessary. After all, people did quite well under Clinton era taxes, and repealing the tax cuts for the top income earners will not destroy our economy.
[bAs a real conservative, how could you truly support him?[/b] I understand voting for him over Kerry (although less spending would get done w/ democratic pres and republican congress), but did your opinion of the world change so much in 4 years that all of the true conservative rhetoric has been so overblown by the neoconservative agenda?
What happened to compassionate conservative?
While like many conservatives I am upset with his lack of veto usage and letting congress continue to spend like druken sailers. Even with that I still favor the idea put forward by the republican party over the democrats. Both parties could have done better.
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