Holy Guacamoli, Elledan, that atmosphere theory is a doozy. The gravity brought about by all that newly created water increased gravity so that the poor atmosphere got glued down harder than ever. And obviously Austraila was protected by a big wall that God put around it. Use your head.
<< Elledan,
<<FYI, I'm currently working on a simulation of the central nervous system. Is that important enough to you?>>
Not as important to me as you are, but very interesting, yes. I hope you put in the God part of the brain that has all the far out experiences with, well, you know, God. >>
My, you would make a very lousy scientist
<< <<And I tell you again, there was no direct or indirect contact between all civilizations which ever existed, yet still they all came up with some kind of religion.>>
And I'll tell you again, bull.
I know you're trying to get by on a technicality
, but it won't work. Naturally all civilizations which ever existed weren't in direct or indirect contact because they didn't all exist in the same time frame. As far as I know contact across time isn't possible. We do know that humanity went through a genetic bottleneck about 200 thousand years ago and that a very small population left Africa then. Anamistic religion probably already existed at that time, doubtless as an invention of some tribal chief as a means to control his group of thirty without a large police force. Now let me see, I got this mob of unruly vermin to keep in order so somebody sews me a fir coat. I got it. I'll invent a thunder god who eats babies to keep production on track. It's just amazing how clever those old tribal leaders were. >>Either you're doing a very lame attempt at being funny, or you don't get it at all.
I never once stated that people consciously created religions. It's far more likely that it happened on a subconscious level.
The 'growth' of a civilization is a process which must follow certain 'rules' in order to become successful. In the early stages the foundation must be laid on which the civilization will 'grow'. A religion is therefore a necessary part of a civilization during these stages.
One can compare the development of a civilization with the growth of a crystal. It requires very specific conditions for a crystal to grow. Any inconsistencies or impurities and the crystal might vanish.
<< Holy Guacamoli, Elledan, that atmosphere theory is a doozy. The gravity brought about by all that newly created water increased gravity so that the poor atmosphere got glued down harder than ever. And obviously Austraila was protected by a big wall that God put around it. Use your head. >>
- The newly added mass from the water would be totally insignificant compared to the mass of the Earth.
- The Aboriginals know nothing about any large walls
and BTW, the bird (pigeon?) Noah send out to look for dry land should have found that land.And BTW, magically appearing and disappearing water and walls? You know that that's a bit hard to prove?
Well for one thing petrek, I don't see God in the same way you do. I don't think of something that exists out there as an entity with a separate existance. To me the only way that God can exist is to find him in ones own heart. He exists nowhere else but in your heart or at least he can be found nowhere else. It' a bit difficult to say what the mystery of grace is or why some have an experience of overwhealming oceanic love or how the illusion of duality collapses and one experiences oneness with the beloved. I do believe however that the experience so profoundly alters some people that they become enoumous powerhouses, like your Christ, whose impact on the hearts of others is transcendent. I think the purpose of religion isn't to worship such people but to tap the same source, a part of which may involve worship at some stage. I think too that there is another way to the same source. I think that it is sin that keeps us in chains, the illusion of sin, the feeling that we are no good. I have observed long enoughto have thoroughly convinced myself that people carry a profound concealed self hatred, one they were handed as children and one that can be uprooted, with tremendous tremendous difficulty by reliving past traumatic events and reexperiencing first hand how we were made to feel by feeling it, allowing ourselves to feel how bad we feel. I think that part of Christ's mission was to help those who enter through his door by assuring them they are forgiven. We are forgiven because we were never guilty. Our sin was to believe we were, and about that we ahd no choice. So I don't think Christianity works if a Christian hasn't forgiven himself to his core, but it can work. And I don't think that Islam always works because moslems don't always fully surrender, and so on. Psychology doesn't work because there aren't any, or enough psychologists who understand the full issue. And so forth. All I know to do is take some of the seeds that fell on my rocky ground and throw them in the air. Where they land, who can say.
<<
<< Holy Guacamoli, Elledan, that atmosphere theory is a doozy. The gravity brought about by all that newly created water increased gravity so that the poor atmosphere got glued down harder than ever. And obviously Austraila was protected by a big wall that God put around it. Use your head. >>
- The newly added mass from the water would be totally insignificant compared to the mass of the Earth. - The Aboriginals know nothing about any large walls
and BTW, the bird (pigeon?) Noah send out to look for dry land should have found that land. And BTW, magically appearing and disappearing water and walls? You know that that's a bit hard to prove? >>think it was a raven ... then a dove
just to toss around an idea ... what if the water that was from the flood was and now is locked in the polar ice caps? would that be enough? or another idea ... perhaps the atmosphere in noah's age was different.
<< think it was a raven ... then a dove >>
Thanks
<< just to toss around an idea ... what if the water that was from the flood was and now is locked in the polar ice caps? would that be enough? >>
Not even nearly. If the water would have reached the top of Mount Everest, then you would lots and lots more water than what is now locked in the polar caps.
<< or another idea ... perhaps the atmosphere in noah's age was different. >>
Different? A sticky, gel-like kind of atmosphere?
Nah, makes no sense
Proving magically appearing walls and water ought to be a peace of cake compared to proving the flood water dispersed atmosphere theory. Now I wouldn't make much of a scientist, but let me see. What is the excape velocity of the atmosphere. I would guess that we're gonna have to eject the atmosphere at some 23 thousand miles an hour which will mean that the water will have to appear as a thin layer at ground and sea level and then thicken at something way over 23 thousand miles per, because the atmosphere will compress and absorb energy. It doesn't look like rain is gonna build up a puddle fast enough to do the trick, but I'll be damned if I can figure how we're gonna avoid the fact that the pressure wave of that fast forming water will cursh everything under it as it supports and accelerates the atmosphere. It makes a lot more siense to me that it Austraila is more than a pigeon flight away, that the Aborigines were picnicing in the interior and didn't see the walls, and the water came in the form of magic rain.
<<
<< think it was a raven ... then a dove >>
Thanks
<< just to toss around an idea ... what if the water that was from the flood was and now is locked in the polar ice caps? would that be enough? >>
Not even nearly. If the water would have reached the top of Mount Everest, then you would lots and lots more water than what is now locked in the polar caps.
<< or another idea ... perhaps the atmosphere in noah's age was different. >>
Different? A sticky, gel-like kind of atmosphere? Nah, makes no sense
>>maybe mt everest wasnt around back then! =)
<< Proving magically appearing walls and water ought to be a peace of cake compared to proving the flood water dispersed atmosphere theory. Now I wouldn't make much of a scientist, but let me see. What is the excape velocity of the atmosphere. I would guess that we're gonna have to eject the atmosphere at some 23 thousand miles an hour which will mean that the water will have to appear as a thin layer at ground and sea level and then thicken at something way over 23 thousand miles per, because the atmosphere will compress and absorb energy. It doesn't look like rain is gonna build up a puddle fast enough to do the trick, but I'll be damned if I can figure how we're gonna avoid the fact that the pressure wave of that fast forming water will cursh everything under it as it supports and accelerates the atmosphere. It makes a lot more siense to me that it Austraila is more than a pigeon flight away, that the Aborigines were picnicing in the interior and didn't see the walls, and the water came in the form of magic rain. >>
You know that every day a small part of the Earth's atmosphere disappears into space? Now imagine the atmosphere being pushed far deeper into space (about the height of Mt. Everest.
Ah, and why weren't the Aboriginals and many other groups of people never told anything about this 'powerful' Christian god?
Questions, questions....
YUSS! I love religion debates. I'm undecided between atheist and agnostic, because although I don't trust in modern religion, I can see a pattern in what happens to me, as if everything bad that happens to me is somehow I can improve myself. But then, somehow it's not. Anyway, I have official proof that God does not exist:
God can make and do anything, right? Well, what if God was to make a rock. A rock that he could not pick up. He has made this rock, and used his infinite divine powers to make it so he cannot pick it up. That is one thing he cannot do, and does conflict with the common view of God.
Just a little thought.
God can make and do anything, right? Well, what if God was to make a rock. A rock that he could not pick up. He has made this rock, and used his infinite divine powers to make it so he cannot pick it up. That is one thing he cannot do, and does conflict with the common view of God.
Just a little thought.
<< YUSS! I love religion debates. I'm undecided between atheist and agnostic, because although I don't trust in modern religion, I can see a pattern in what happens to me, as if everything bad that happens to me is somehow I can improve myself. But then, somehow it's not. Anyway, I have official proof that God does not exist:
God can make and do anything, right? Well, what if God was to make a rock. A rock that he could not pick up. He has made this rock, and used his infinite divine powers to make it so he cannot pick it up. That is one thing he cannot do, and does conflict with the common view of God.
Just a little thought.
>>Can a god commit suicide? Can a god undo the past?
Can't say religion is a mistake. Take Christianity for example.
More books allude to a religious book, The Bible, than any other book in the world. Plenty of important historical political documents and events were based on the Bible. Statistically, religious people lead healthier lives since their confidence and morale are boosted and they worry less. A lot of hospitals, clinics, schools, universities, homeless shelters, food distributions throughout the world are religious or were based on religion. The thing to watch out for are cults; extreme religions that takes away its members' freedom instead of encouraging it.
The "bad" thing about Christianity is that it is based on a perfect God and how to walk in His footsteps. However, since no man is perfect, its members and leaders are often viewed as hippocrites when they make a mistake (who doesn't?) even though they try hard not to. Aside from that, most members spend about an hour a week to listen to a seminar and then having fun with friends they met at church. Many in the church pool their money together so that it can be used for various community projects like anti-graffiti and beautification as well as food, shelter, and evangelism in other less-fortunate countries (share the wealth). The thing to watch out for again are bad people who take advantage of the church for personal gain, which is totally against the teachings of God.
Also, check out Pascal's wager, an early argument that believing is a win vs neutral situation
More books allude to a religious book, The Bible, than any other book in the world. Plenty of important historical political documents and events were based on the Bible. Statistically, religious people lead healthier lives since their confidence and morale are boosted and they worry less. A lot of hospitals, clinics, schools, universities, homeless shelters, food distributions throughout the world are religious or were based on religion. The thing to watch out for are cults; extreme religions that takes away its members' freedom instead of encouraging it.
The "bad" thing about Christianity is that it is based on a perfect God and how to walk in His footsteps. However, since no man is perfect, its members and leaders are often viewed as hippocrites when they make a mistake (who doesn't?) even though they try hard not to. Aside from that, most members spend about an hour a week to listen to a seminar and then having fun with friends they met at church. Many in the church pool their money together so that it can be used for various community projects like anti-graffiti and beautification as well as food, shelter, and evangelism in other less-fortunate countries (share the wealth). The thing to watch out for again are bad people who take advantage of the church for personal gain, which is totally against the teachings of God.
Also, check out Pascal's wager, an early argument that believing is a win vs neutral situation
<< Can a god commit suicide? Can a god undo the past?
>>God doesn't play by the rules of this world. He created it ... why should a creator be subject to His creation.
"All right, Mr. Ug, just lay down on this stone couch here and just tell me what comes into your head. That's right just free associate."
UUUUUUH Ug need way to control population. Now got 2 times hands and feet in tribe. Pretty soon need 1000 swat teams to control. People crazy. Somebody always want bigger leg bone. Need to let unconscious solve problem Ug afraid..... uuuuuh uuuuuuh uuuuuuh Ug afraid, that's it. Ug control tribe with fear. Ug make up story bout boogy man who eat children, fire swat teams.
UUUUUUH Ug need way to control population. Now got 2 times hands and feet in tribe. Pretty soon need 1000 swat teams to control. People crazy. Somebody always want bigger leg bone. Need to let unconscious solve problem Ug afraid..... uuuuuh uuuuuuh uuuuuuh Ug afraid, that's it. Ug control tribe with fear. Ug make up story bout boogy man who eat children, fire swat teams.
<<
<< Can a god commit suicide? Can a god undo the past?
>>God doesn't play by the rules of this world. He created it ... why should a creator be subject to His creation. >>
I prefer to stay away from metaphysics.
First of all, we don't know whether any supernatural beings/forces exist, nor can we prove/disprove the existance of these.
It's funny how people are looking everywhere just to find a reason for their existance and everything else, including the universe. Saying that some supernatural force/being created it is the easy way out, yet is about as clear as saying "I don't know".
BTW, any god that condones punishment or is actively involved in it is not 'just'.
<< "All right, Mr. Ug, just lay down on this stone couch here and just tell me what comes into your head. That's right just free associate."
UUUUUUH Ug need way to control population. Now got 2 times hands and feet in tribe. Pretty soon need 1000 swat teams to control. People crazy. Somebody always want bigger leg bone. Need to let unconscious solve problem Ug afraid..... uuuuuh uuuuuuh uuuuuuh Ug afraid, that's it. Ug control tribe with fear. Ug make up story bout boogy man who eat children, fire swat teams. >>
Amusing story, but what's your point?
MB, "Well for one thing petrek, I don't see God in the same way you do. I don't think of something that exists out there as an entity with a separate existance." If you do not accept who God says he is according to the Bible, you will also fail to see why the Bible ( a historically, scientifically, and prophetically accurate account of the history of the universe from beginning to end) is the most logical way for God to prove He exists to men who question His existence.
<< A lot of hospitals, clinics, schools, universities, homeless shelters, food distributions throughout the world are religious or were based on religion >>
Not on religion. Religion merely provides people with a set of ethics. These ethics usually contain the 'rule' to be good to other people, to take care of them if they're in need of help.
Hmm... sounds like Socialism, doesn't it?
Anyway, these ethics religions provide are just the first step to insight. There's a truth beyond the truth religions provide. And one beyond that truth.
<< MB, "Well for one thing petrek, I don't see God in the same way you do. I don't think of something that exists out there as an entity with a separate existance." If you do not accept who God says he is according to the Bible, you will also fail to see why the Bible ( a historically, scientifically, and prophetically accurate account of the history of the universe from beginning to end) is the most logical way for God to prove He exists to men who question His existence. >>
petrek, the bible is everything but "a historically, scientifically, and prophetically accurate account of the history of the universe from beginning to end". It even contradicts itself (between Old and New Testament, and within the New Testament).
BTW, do you accept the statement that language is subjective and that the original meaning of a text is only clear to the one who wrote it down?
<< BTW, any god that condones punishment or is actively involved in it is not 'just'. >>
if your father was a judge and you committed a clearly punishable crime (in this case he would be your judge ... not that it would happen in a real life scenario) ... but if it were to happen ... Would it be "right" to let you off the hook just because you were his son or daughter? even though he loves you, and has that family bond, it would not be "just" to let you off. God faced a similar dilemma which He solved through Jesus Christ ... who sacrificed Himself on the cross so that we wouldn't have to pay the penalty for our wrongs. this is what Christians believe.
this thread truly does not end ... and if it does ... it starts up once more. =)
edit: i'm going to sleep now. hopefully someone else will be able to answer your questions
<< "All right, Mr. Ug, just lay down on this stone couch here and just tell me what comes into your head. That's right just free associate." UUUUUUH Ug need way to control population. Now got 2 times hands and feet in tribe. Pretty soon need 1000 swat teams to control. People crazy. Somebody always want bigger leg bone. Need to let unconscious solve problem Ug afraid..... uuuuuh uuuuuuh uuuuuuh Ug afraid, that's it. Ug control tribe with fear. Ug make up story bout boogy man who eat children, fire swat teams. >>
comic relief. hahahahahaha
In re"petrek, the bible is everything but "a historically, scientifically, and prophetically accurate account of the history of the universe from beginning to end". It even contradicts itself (between Old and New Testament, and within the New Testament)."
Please provide examples you have personally come across while reading the Bible.
Please provide examples you have personally come across while reading the Bible.
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