What if billions of people are wrong?

d1abolic

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Sep 21, 2001
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I am an agnostic so i even though i am leaning towards atheism, i can't say that god doesn't exist for certain. So what IF he doesn't? Then billions of people are wrong, misled, mistaken, lost. That would make religion the biggest mistake in the history of humanity. Picture how much trouble we've gone through because of it. Most of it is ancient history, but recent events, such as the attacks of September 11th are spawned by religion (an extreme interpritation of it that is). Imagine how much time Muslims spend praying. Several hours a day, for their entire lives, billions of people. We're talking astronimical numbers here, quadrillions of man-hours wasted. Scary. Just a thought :D
 

Darein

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Nov 14, 2000
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Saying religion is the biggest mistake in the history of mankind is a bold and very general statement. Modern religion has shaped the modern world in so many ways. Religions shaped the geographical, political, and economic status of the world and with out religion the world would be vastly different. Religion is a great thing to a great many people.
 

Phunktion

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Jan 29, 2001
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I consider myself agnostic too.. I think you're being a bit harsh on religion tho.. it gives people an answer to what otherwise would be the unanswered, in other words people who can't deal with not knowing certain things about our universe can maintain their sanity by believing in mostly unsubstantiated concepts that give answers to those questions.. hey if organized religion helps them then I say more power to them but it's not for me.. religion also keeps the world humane for the most part as if the world were only scientific it *could* be a scary place indeed..
 

BruinEd03

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Feb 5, 2001
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<< I am an agnostic so i even though i am leaning towards atheism, i can't say that god doesn't exist for certain. So what IF he doesn't? Then billions of people are wrong, misled, mistaken, lost. That would make religion the biggest mistake in the history of humanity. Picture how much trouble we've gone through because of it. Most of it is ancient history, but recent events, such as the attacks of September 11th are spawned by religion (an extreme interpritation of it that is). Imagine how much time Muslims spend praying. Several hours a day, for their entire lives, billions of people. We're talking astronimical numbers here, quadrillions of man-hours wasted. Scary. Just a thought :D >>



I'm not religous or anything...but I think what's the scariest thing is if they were right. I mean it would just throw the world into chaos if what they are saying can be proven to be true. If there is a GOD:

1.) Why make money when all we need to do is accept Jesus to go to heaven?
2.) Why should we bother living if there is a better afterlife?
3.) Whether we're succesful or not is NOT up to us...it is already predetermined
.
.
.
The list goes on and on. A whole lot of things would be out of whack. While religous folks do believe in GOD for the most part...the world is built on the doubts of it...that there may not BE a next world...that we ARE in control of our destiny.

-Ed
 

FrontlineWarrior

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Apr 19, 2000
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not sure why you'd say that religion would be a big mistake if untrue... not everyone wants to live life bling blinging. perhaps religion gives people a sense of purpose that they otherwise wouldn't have.
 

d1abolic

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Sep 21, 2001
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Bruin, LOL i thought my thought was scary but yours is worse. People would go nuts. If everything is predetermined, then why even try to succeed?
 

b0mbrman

Lifer
Jun 1, 2001
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<< Bruin, LOL i thought my thought was scary but yours is worse. People would go nuts. If everything is predetermined, then why even try to succeed? >>



You don't have to believe in God to believe that...nor does believing in God mean that you believe that.
 

b0mbrman

Lifer
Jun 1, 2001
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I'm no religious guy by any stretch but think about this...religions are created for some reason and i'd presume that those reasons were for good....

I'm sure if anyone cared, they could come up with a list of good things religion has done...I, for one, will go take a nap
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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Religion really isn't about God. It's about the fact that humanity has a disease, doesn't know it and doesn't want to know it. Once in a while somebody gets well, usually with the clues contained in religions started by previous exemplars of health. Religion is a science. What we see is the outward manifestation of an inner science of development layed down by people who understand disease because they are well. As a basic formulation you can think of it this way. The self that we know ourself to be is the false self, an ego construct, a buffer against tremendous inner pain. God, the example of God, religious rules and laws, and the sincere practice of trying to live by what that implies, brings us more in line with the true healthy self. Occassionally a practitioneer will become so successful at his religion that he transcends the false self. He undergoes crucifixion and rebirth.
 

Elledan

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Jul 24, 2000
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<< Religion really isn't about God. It's about the fact that humanity has a disease, doesn't know it and doesn't want to know it. Once in a while somebody gets well, usually with the clues contained in religions started by previous exemplars of health. Religion is a science. What we see is the outward manifestation of an inner science of development layed down by people who understand disease because they are well. As a basic formulation you can think of it this way. The self that we know ourself to be is the false self, an ego construct, a buffer against tremendous inner pain. God, the example of God, religious rules and laws, and the sincere practice of trying to live by what that implies, brings us more in line with the true healthy self. Occassionally a practitioneer will become so successful at his religion that he transcends the false self. He undergoes crucifixion and rebirth. >>

Nice theory, but it's full of holes.

How about this theory:

When looking back at history, one can make an interesting observation, namely that every civilization has known some kind of religion. Since not all of these civilizations knew of each others existance, the logical conclusion is therefore that an ideology like a religion is a necessary part of a developing civilization.

Because of the fact that religions are in fact very intolerant ideologies (they're based on one or more 'sacred' texts, which are always assumed to contain the truth), they form rigid structures, providing a developing civilization with a set of ethics, laws to judge and punish people and other things which form an essential part of every society. Everyone knows what is acceptable and what is not, therefore people can concentrate on other things, like building houses, creating tools and hunting, farming and keeping cattle.

New ideas which do not comply with the text(s) on which the ideology is based are forcefully rejected. This mechanism maintains the order in a society, because if the ideology would be discredited and thefore prove to be false, the society would crumble. Anarchy would reign.

Of course, due to Human nature, curiosity always plays a role in Human behaviour, therefore people will still research phenomena and everything else which makes them curious.

The new discoveries will be kept secret by many underground groups, which form a minority. This minority is unable to form a threat to society, but their ideas will be slowly accepted by the majority. If possible they'll be integrated into the ideology.

After many centuries, people will start to realize that the ideology which has been followed blindly by almost everyone for so long is flawed. Some of these will refuse to have anything to do with such ideologies anymore and become a follower of another ideology, which systematically denies everything religions present as being the truth. Others will simply refuse to follow any of these intolerant ideologies, of these some will still keep researching the truth behind what these ideologies say is true, others will remain passive, yet still be open for new ideas, but they won't actively research any ideas presented by the ideologies.

Some centuries later, depending on the acquired knowledge (curiosity; science), those who still blindly follow any of the intolerant ideologies will become a minority. They won't disappear for a long time, but their influence on society has become almost non-existant.

--

Sounds far more plausible to me.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
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Without organized religion in the world, science and technology would probably be about a thousand or more years ahead of where we're at now. Just imagine where we could be if we didn't waste all that energy on that "Praise Be to the Baby Jesus! Amen!" BS....
 

Elledan

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Jul 24, 2000
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<< Without organized religion in the world, science and technology would probably be about a thousand or more years ahead of where we're at now. Just imagine where we could be if we didn't waste all that energy on that "Praise Be to the Baby Jesus! Amen!" BS.... >>

Read my post in this thread. Religions might not be as useless as you think.
 

FrontlineWarrior

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Apr 19, 2000
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i would make a slight change to your thesis and say that civilizations require motivation for people to conform to its rules. religion is one, related to religion is perhaps idealism, then force, etc. that is, civilizations certainly requires something to keep people in line, but not necessarily religion. although it is the most easily established and maintained. (whereas force is easily established but not maintained)
 

Yzzim

Lifer
Feb 13, 2000
11,990
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Elledan - Not sure if you know it, but Revelations says something similar to your last statement:

"Some centuries later, depending on the acquired knowledge (curiosity; science), those who still blindly follow any of the intolerant ideologies will become a minority. They won't disappear for a long time, but their influence on society has become almost non-existant."


More and more people will stop believing in God. That's what was predicted in Revelations. Once that happens, the end is near but not quite. (Matthew 24)

Usually I don't take part in these threads, but I just found that quite interesting.
 

bbqweed

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Mar 22, 2000
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Religion, whether you believe is a hoax or not is not the main issue. What religion does is give people hope and faith. In a world like the one we are living in today, with economy bad, terrorism, and crime...religion gives people some kinda hope...and to me ...that is more important than whether or not there truly is a GOD (I myself am catholic...so i do believe). But for those who don't believe in the same God as I do...that's fine....but I have never run across a religion that says "kill everyone"...most religions stress the same things:

-standards for living a good life
-faith
-and doing good deeds

with all this in mind...Religion is a good thing.

my 2 pennies
 

udonoogen

Diamond Member
Dec 28, 2001
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<< I am an agnostic so i even though i am leaning towards atheism, i can't say that god doesn't exist for certain. So what IF he doesn't? Then billions of people are wrong, misled, mistaken, lost. That would make religion the biggest mistake in the history of humanity. Picture how much trouble we've gone through because of it. Most of it is ancient history, but recent events, such as the attacks of September 11th are spawned by religion (an extreme interpritation of it that is). Imagine how much time Muslims spend praying. Several hours a day, for their entire lives, billions of people. We're talking astronimical numbers here, quadrillions of man-hours wasted. Scary. Just a thought :D >>





this topic comes up a lot at AT. =)

i dont think there have been billions of any one sole religion since the beginning of time with the exception of the "no religion" religion crew.

i also dont think that you should let the numbers persuade you either way. it is a scary thought that there are many that don't choose the "right" path (i am one of those that do believe there is a right way) ... but you can't follow the crowd either way.

anyway, thats my two cents. have a nice day
 

d1abolic

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Sep 21, 2001
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Ellen, nice post. I believe all but the last paragraph already took place. I think that the number of believers decreases by the day. Just think that only 50 years ago, just about everyone believed in god. Now, most young people are agnostics/atheists. In a hundred years or even less, believers will become a minority. Or however long it will take for today's youth to become the elderly. Because even if the oldest living generation doesn't believe, no one will.

As you said, religion is a necessary part of any developing civilization. Simply put, it maintains order and prevents chaos. I believe that any truly developed civilization no longer needs religion. This planet has yet to see a civilization like that. I think we will be the first.
 

Yzzim

Lifer
Feb 13, 2000
11,990
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<< Because even if the oldest living generation doesn't believe, no one will. >>


Alright, this is starting to get really really weird.

Back in Noah's time not too many people believed. They were all caught up in sin and believed God was a joke. So what did God do to get rid of these people?
Let's just say that Noah (a true believer of God) had to build a very very big ark to survive for 40 days and 40 nights.

And now with d1abolic's quote above, I can see something similar happening all over again. This time it's for good.
 

d1abolic

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Sep 21, 2001
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You're assuming that the story is true, which it isn't. It was put in the Bible to remind people what will happen to them if they stop believing in God. Did you know what the reason most believers continue to believe is fear? It's true, they just refuse to admit it. But they also refuse to stop believing because they are terrified of facing the consequences, whether in this life or the next.
 

d1abolic

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Sep 21, 2001
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I just realised something. Billions of people ARE wrong. It's either the believers or the atheists :D
 

Yzzim

Lifer
Feb 13, 2000
11,990
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<< You're assuming that the story is true, which it isn't. It was put in the Bible to remind people what will happen to them if they stop believing in God. >>



Where did you get this information that's it's not true? I want to see it.



<< Did you know what the reason most believers continue to believe is fear? It's true, they just refuse to admit it. But they also refuse to stop believing because they are terrified of facing the consequences, whether in this life or the next. >>



If you say so :)
 

joohang

Lifer
Oct 22, 2000
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It depends on how one defines "religion" but there are more religions in this world than Judeo-Christian-Islamic ones, especially those in Asia. Some are polytheistic, some are atheistic, some are monotheistic, and some are both monotheistic and polytheistic. Some focus on scripts, while others focus on rituals. Some serve as a functional equivalent of a religion (i.e. Neo-Confucianism) but they aren't exactly "religions" themselves and do not rely on supernatural beings.

Also, you need to define what you mean by "wrong." :p

The definition of religion I found most acceptable to date is that of my Korean history professor, who defines it as a system that "explains the otherwise unexplainable, predict the otherwise unpredictable and prevent the otherwise unpreventable." This mostly refers to premodern East Asia, though.
 

Elledan

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Jul 24, 2000
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<< You're assuming that the story is true, which it isn't. It was put in the Bible to remind people what will happen to them if they stop believing in God. Did you know what the reason most believers continue to believe is fear? It's true, they just refuse to admit it. But they also refuse to stop believing because they are terrified of facing the consequences, whether in this life or the next. >>

Thank you! I was just about to say that ;):)