What if AMD partnered with ARM to cross-license AMD's GPU tech?

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Zstream

Diamond Member
Oct 24, 2005
3,395
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Strapping one of AMD's GPUs to an ARM CPU is like putting a Ford Fiesta engine into a Corvette. It just doesn't make sense. You would be CPU limited in all games at all resolutions.

That said, I think AMD could make an interesting computer with all of their know how. Perhaps they could become the new Apple.

If AMD creates a "Fusion" core based on an ARM CPU, what is its use going to be? nVidia at least has a GPGPU platform that is useful to many people. If AMD does it, it's going to be dead on arrival with no software and no use for 99.9% of people.

No, AMD will LICENSE the architecture used. It does not mean they will provide drivers or any other sort of support. It just means ARM will gain access to the AMD GPU license portfolio as ARM will design and build it based off of the guidance of AMD.
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
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No, AMD will LICENSE the architecture used. It does not mean they will provide drivers or any other sort of support. It just means ARM will gain access to the AMD GPU license portfolio as ARM will design and build it based off of the guidance of AMD.

I don't think AMD should let ARM have access to their GPU IP portfolio.

I mean, they have already made a *somewhat* analogous mistake in the past by selling off an entire GPU division (Imageon) to another mobile company Qualcomm.
 

SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
14,377
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No, AMD will LICENSE the architecture used. It does not mean they will provide drivers or any other sort of support. It just means ARM will gain access to the AMD GPU license portfolio as ARM will design and build it based off of the guidance of AMD.
Regardless of who does what, there is no need for AMD's GPUs to be strapped onto a CPU that can't even outperform an Atom.

AMD's GPU technology is something I would think that they would guard pretty heavily.

If AMD gives them anything, it will be very basic.
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
12,968
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AMD's GPU technology is something I would think that they would guard pretty heavily.

Yes, I agree!

See my edit here--> http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=32560914&postcount=25

It really got me thinking AMD's Fusion developer tools may be the major strategy to preserve the Bulldozer CPU budget.

Without the Radeon GPU and the Fusion strategy (both hardware and software), what is to prevent future ARM Server CPUs (sharing a common design with the high end "laptop replacement" smartphone CPUs) from reducing Bulldozer CPU R&D money?
 

Zstream

Diamond Member
Oct 24, 2005
3,395
277
136
Regardless of who does what, there is no need for AMD's GPUs to be strapped onto a CPU that can't even outperform an Atom.

AMD's GPU technology is something I would think that they would guard pretty heavily.

If AMD gives them anything, it will be very basic.

I don't see it being guarded heavily. It's IP and a license, free money. I would rather AMD ditch the CPU sector and focus on GPU's and compute logic.
 

SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
14,377
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I don't see it being guarded heavily. It's IP and a license, free money. I would rather AMD ditch the CPU sector and focus on GPU's and compute logic.
There are two reason why it doesn't make sense:

1. AMD has put years of research into their GPUs and have spent billions of dollars developing them. How much do you think their GPU technology is worth?

2. There is no need for a high end GPU strapped onto an ARM CPU at this point.

Your idea may make sense in a few years, but as things stand now, ARM's CPUs are incredibly basic and weak compared to what's out there for x86.
 

podspi

Golden Member
Jan 11, 2011
1,982
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Technology isn't something that can be guarded anyway. Once it's out what is to stop anybody from looking inside and seeing how it works?

Licensing != giving away. That being said who knows if AMD still has the necessary IP to design a GPU at such low voltage, since we're talking about more than a magnitude difference between their current GPUs and <1W (unless I am mistaken)
 

ocre

Golden Member
Dec 26, 2008
1,594
7
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There are two reason why it doesn't make sense:

1. AMD has put years of research into their GPUs and have spent billions of dollars developing them. How much do you think their GPU technology is worth?

2. There is no need for a high end GPU strapped onto an ARM CPU at this point.

Your idea may make sense in a few years, but as things stand now, ARM's CPUs are incredibly basic and weak compared to what's out there for x86.

But dont forget even ARM CPUs take yrs to bring from design to product. The concept CPU right now are yrs ahead of the products out.

Nvidia made a pretty penny off licensing intel Geforce technology. AMD most likely wants to do the same. Most ppl arent paying attention to what the nvidia license deal will mean for intel GPUs. Intel will continue to make more and more powerful igps in their future CPUs, they have bought billions of technologies to insure this happens. Nvidia sold what they thought they could afford to, and whatever they licensed was current or even yrs old. they are likely yrs ahead in technologies of the future which makes them comfortable licensing out their older technology. Surely AMD would do the same. They would only sell stuff they thought would do them more good that harm in the end. Older technologies that wouldnt hurt them to license out.
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
12,968
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An article about ARM applying the "big.LITTLE" scheme to Mali Graphics.

http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4229898/ARM-mulls-big-little-scheme-for-graphics

ARM mulls 'big-little' scheme for graphics
Peter Clarke
10/20/2011 11:52 AM EDT

LONDON &#8211; As ARM Holdings plc rolled out its Cortex-A7 core and the "big-little" flexible power-performance scheme based upon it on Wednesday (Oct. 19), a company executive tipped that the company is also considering the application of a similar scheme to its graphics processor cores. Peter Hutton, general manager of the media processing division at ARM, said: "We are looking at a little-big approach for Mali."

At present the big-little scheme applies to the pairing of the A7-A15 cores and allows software to migrate between them based on the processing performance required. Meanwhile ARM's Mali T604 graphics processor supports the OpenCL parallel programming environment and the notion of applying the GPU to parallelizable general&#8211;purpose processing tasks. At present there is a deal of hand-coding and manual partitioning that has to be done to break out code that is suitable for running on a GPU.

Hutton was, until August involved in the design of the Cortex-A7 energy efficient processor and the big-little flexible processing technology.

The T604 includes four shader cores, each of which contains two arithmetic pipelines, one texturing pipeline, and one load/store unit. The four shaders share a coherent L2 cache, an MMU, a tiler, and a Job Manager. This latter block is a key component because the shaders are multithreaded. The Job Manager can dynamically move threads among the shaders. It can be seen that there is already power-performance scalability at the thread level inside the Mali T604.

In that regard one could consider the A7, A15 and Mali TXXX, which are likely to be implemented monolithically, as a set of resources that software should find a way to harness optimally based on a set of defined parameters, most notably minimum latency and minimum power consumption.

I am still a little confused about how this would work.
 
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brybir

Senior member
Jun 18, 2009
241
0
0
An interesting article:

http://www.tgdaily.com/games-and-entertainment-features/59853-ms-eyes-dual-sku-strategy-for-xbox-720


Now, the only reason it is interesting is because of the last line. I think that could be one possible area where an AMD/ARM license agreement could provide some real synergy (although if true, that means that it is likely already complete given the timeframes to finalize specs for something like the next Xbox). I thought that it was interesting because it was a partnership between ARM, Imageon, and Samsung....


Anyways, probably just a rumor, but just one example of what could happen in the future (ala AMD being bought out by Samsung, for example).