What I don't understand about the shutdown

[dank69]

Foolish in the sense that it would hurt their re-election chances, sure. I think the current shutdown will hurt the Republicans in 2014. For some reason the majority of people seem to think that most of what the Federal government does is actually necessary and beneficial to the country.

Other than that, I would never consider it foolish to defund the bloated monster we call the Federal government, regardless of the reason.

So it would be foolish only because it would hurt their election chances, not because you disagree fundamentally with repealing the 2nd?

 

[dank69]

...


Well, until then you could always put words in his mouth, which seems to be what you're hell bent on for whatever reason.

I believe the results now speak for themselves as he has at least agreed that them Dems would be foolish to attempt a similar thing that the Republicans are attempting.

 

[cubby1223]

Originally Posted by EagleKeeper

I am sure the Dems would like to redraw districts when they have the chance and are in control of the process. I have seen in Mass where when a district is lost; all sorts of shenanigans happen to ensure that districts are not sliced up to much.

I know in my state, dem controlled, the people voted to have districts redrawn by an independent group consisting of democrats and republucans and independents. So I'll call bullshit on the bolded.

What?

Are you just running on auto-pilot today?

One of the requirements of the scenario was that the Dems are in control of the process. You cannot call bullshit on it and present as your example a situation where Dems were not in control of the process.

I already previously provided the example of my state of Illinois where Dems were in full control of the process, and redrew the maps to increase their control, and I explained exactly how they worked it.

Here's a source news link from a far-right activist blog site:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/31/illinois-redistricting-de_n_869342.html

 

[Zaap]

I believe the results now speak for themselves as he has at least agreed that them Dems would be foolish to attempt a similar thing that the Republicans are attempting.

I thought it was already pretty clear, but glad you depend on him to clear things up for you.

"So the criticism is someone thinks politicians might do foolish things in order to get what they want? I'm shocked!"

 

[dank69]

I thought it was already pretty clear, but glad you depend on him to clear things up for you.

"So the criticism is someone thinks politicians might do foolish things in order to get what they want? I'm shocked!"

Look at his first post in this thread and what he seemed to be refuting.

 

[dank69]

What?

Are you just running on auto-pilot today?

One of the requirements of the scenario was that the Dems are in control of the process. You cannot call bullshit on it and present as your example a situation where Dems were not in control of the process.

I already previously provided the example of my state of Illinois where Dems were in full control of the process, and redrew the maps to increase their control, and I explained exactly how they worked it.

Here's a source news link from a far-right activist blog site:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/31/illinois-redistricting-de_n_869342.html

In his scenario, Dems had full control, could have redrawn the districts to suit themselves, but instead elected to have an independent group do the redistricting.

 

[Zaap]

Look at his first post in this thread and what he seemed to be refuting.

Eh, I don't really care all that much. Just reads to me like you're trying to cover for the failed burn with the whole James Madison/Federalist thing. (Madison was way more complex than just being labeled a 'Federalist' as if he wanted an all-powerful centralized government. The biill of rights that he drafted was actually an ANTI-Federalist position.) Wasn't a big deal, it was just a very weak attempt at a zinger.

 

[Matt1970]

That doesn't explain the composition of the HOR in the slightest. Gerrymandering does.

46.9% of the vote for the GOP vs 48.3% for the Dems and the GOP lost 8 seats. Gerrymandering not found. Try again.

 

[Matt1970]

The bill was debated and written for a year with over 100 republican amendments. There was plenty of time to read it.

The quoted republican talking point only works for people without a brain... The american PEOPLE would not find out what was really in it until the republican bullshit had died down for a bit, when passed. Notice how there are no death panels? THAT is what the quote refers to.

If you are so easily swayed by a braindead talking point aimed at people like you who can't/won't think for themselves, you seriously need to reconsider your place in life.

Before you go calling others brain dead, get your facts straight. The bill was introduced on October 29, 2009 and passed on November 7 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affordable_Health_Care_for_America_Act 6 whole working days to read and debate on 2500 pages of legislation.

 

[dbk]

What does this have to do with holding the government as hostage? Why not continue to fund the government THEN go ahead and legislate to repeal ACA?

 

[K1052]

Before you go calling others brain dead, get your facts straight. The bill was introduced on October 29, 2009 and passed on November 7 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affordable_Health_Care_for_America_Act 6 whole working days to read and debate on 2500 pages of legislation.

The Senate and House bills were circulated and negotiated on for months before either were formally introduced to their respective chambers. This is typical procedure.

 

[BUnit1701]

What does this have to do with holding the government as hostage? Why not continue to fund the government THEN go ahead and legislate to repeal ACA?

Because Dingy Harry refuses to even consider any of the bills the house has passed attempting to repeal the ACA, therefore the House needs leverage, and the CR provides just that.

 

[michal1980]

Because Dingy Harry refuses to even consider any of the bills the house has passed attempting to repeal the ACA, therefore the House needs leverage, and the CR provides just that.

bingo

 

[K1052]

Because Dingy Harry refuses to even consider any of the bills the house has passed attempting to repeal the ACA, therefore the House needs leverage, and the CR provides just that.

I am flabbergasted that Reid has the gall not to want to defund or repeal the signature domestic policy achievement of the President and his party in exchange for a CR which should otherwise be a routine affair and has no funding impact on said program.

 

[Jhhnn]

Yeah, no way 42% of the voters who decided not to vote would have any effect on the results.

Gerrymandering must be the DailyKOS buzzword of the month for Democrats/Liberals/Progressives.

Heh. That turnout rate is somehow unusual? Really?

The truth is that the US is changing in a lot of ways, our headsets along with the rest of it. OTOH, Repubs aren't changing with it. In truth, the Tea Party is a retrograde effort, an attempt to turn back the clock to some idealized time in the past.

The fact also remains that Dem HOR candidates received more votes than Repub HOR candidates, yet are a minority in that chamber. If the vote totals were reflected in the number of Reps, Dems would be the majority.

I don't think that can be explained away in any fashion other than the Gerrymander. N Carolina isn't the only example. Texas Repubs have outdone even them, and Pennsylvania Repubs are no slouches, either.

OTOH, the rising tide of sentiment against Repubs pulling the same shit over & over may turn the tide despite the Gerrymander.

You are *not* the majority, and the country is trending away from even allowing you to think that you might be.

 

[Jhhnn]

What does this have to do with holding the government as hostage? Why not continue to fund the government THEN go ahead and legislate to repeal ACA?

Because they don't have the votes to do it, nor likely will they ever. They're desperate to prevent it, rightly fearing that it will be extremely popular & effective, thus altering the way Americans look at govt for the better.

They've shown themselves to be incompetent when running the govt, and they'll be damned if they'll let anybody do it better.

 

[alkemyst]

We are screwed.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

It really doesn't matter how you feel about Obamacare, the way in which Republicans are choosing to oppose the law and repeal it is distinctly poisonous to our democratic process.

If Obama gives in this time, who's to say the Republicans won't keep doing this to get everything they want? Should we allow any political party to effectively shutdown the government and throw the country into economic and financial chaos at will?

I say no. The founding fathers would never approve of what is happening now, and neither should you. Democratic or Republican. What is going on is borderline treasonous IMHO.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

Again why on earth would Democrats want to repeal their signature health care law before the brunt of it has even gone into effect? This is so utterly ludicrous.

It'd be like asking Bush to withdraw from Iraq.

 

[DominionSeraph]

I know those house of representative republican members that were elected on an Anti-Obamacare platform, should just turn RINO, or not even bother going to work.

Its not like they were elected or anything.

They were also elected to ban abortion especially in case of lifethreatening complications of pregnancy, to put creationism in schools, to make Christianity the official religion of the land, and to reenact Jim Crow laws. They don't have the votes to do so. Do you think they should be allowed to shut down the government until they get their way?

Of course you do, because that's what you want, and you believe that anything that gets you your way must be right, and that anything that presents an obstacle to you getting your way must be wrong.

 

[trenchfoot]

Sooner or later the spoiled brats that got their way from throwing hissy fits and holding their breath have had the patience and that last raw nerve run out from those who've had to give in time after time after time and put up with it. It's inevitable. It's a natural logical course with a logical ending.

So here the rest of us are, not willing to take that crap any more, arms folded, standing around this small group of screaming spoiled brats, eyes rolling, fed up with their childish behavior, watching with disgust while some of them are stomping their feet and shaking their fists in extreme rage, some others are on their backs flailing arms and legs and turning purple from screeching louder than humanly possible, still others making these horrible contorted faces, lips grotesquely pursed while forcefully inhaling and exhaling through flared nostrils and generally making asses and fools of themselves.

Let's see how long it takes for them to quiet down from exhaustion, catch their breath, come back to reality.

Or maybe they'll change their tune when they see their mommies and daddies turn their backs on them and simply walk away.

And yes, I'm referring to those Tea Party legislators who've held the nation hostage time and again to get their way.

 

[cubby1223]

Because they don't have the votes to do it, nor likely will they ever. They're desperate to prevent it, rightly fearing that it will be extremely popular & effective, thus altering the way Americans look at govt for the better.

They've shown themselves to be incompetent when running the govt, and they'll be damned if they'll let anybody do it better.

The reason why no one can ever have a discussion on this topic is because you have twisted reality and made yourselves believe that opposition to Obamacare is out of fear that it will be successful.

I understand it helps your loud inner-self believing that narrative, believing that the whole world agrees you are right, and the opposition can easily be explained away as hateful oppressive evil-doers.

But it doesn't match reality.

 

[cubby1223]

Actually, Jhhnn, since I've had a few more minutes to think it over, it is nice that we are at least making progress.

You're not saying opposition to Obamacare is because Republicans and conservatives are all racist and will never accept anything a black man says.

And "righties" have for the most part stopped calling Obama a socialist, or a communist.

We're making small strides closer to reality. But we still have a ways to go.