What happens to a city when 25% of the population is Islamic

[wwswimming]

your Israeli overlords love for you to hate Muslims.

 

[Red Irish]

Muslums often practice a marriage under Sharia law that allows having multiple wives. This is what we call Polygamy in the USA and it is illegal. It enables a population or culture to overpopulate so they can take over a indigionous population. This is something you should be looking out for in europe. In the USA Polygamy was illegal and many Mormon men were improsoned for it in the early 1900's. It can lead to the mistreatment and degredation of women, and rampant child abuse.

Jesus wept!

I guess the no condom policy of the Catholic church serves the same purpose, enabling Catholics to "overpopulate so they can take over a indigionous population".

 

[Jaskalas]

Jesus wept!

I guess the no condom policy of the Catholic church serves the same purpose, enabling Catholics to "overpopulate so they can take over a indigionous population".

At this point it appears we'd be attempting to, and failing at that, to simply preserve and conserve OUR indigenous population. Which I'm guessing is something you'd rather spit on than fight for.

 

[Red Irish]

At this point it appears we'd be attempting to, and failing at that, to simply preserve and conserve OUR indigenous population. Which I'm guessing is something you'd rather spit on than fight for.

You are guessing that "I'd rather spit on than fight for" your indigenous population? I'm sorry, I have no idea what led you to that conclusion, or, indeed, what the hell you're talking about. Please explain, if I am not asking too much.

 

[Grabo]

Ok third try's the charm? Loads forum and thread ok, then I type some, hit reply- and the entire domain is stone dead. Omen, of course.

One problem here is that more is happening than just immigration. First off we've got a change of 18 years.

Assault: 1950: 7k, 1968: 17k (+140%)
1970: 18k, 1988: 37k (+100%)
1990: 40k, 2008: 84k (+110%)

I suspect the increase in assault over this time of higher immigration is totally in line with most 18 year periods.

Not quite, although there have been sharp increases for this type of crime before:
Assault: 2000- 58846: 2008- 84566 = 44% increase,
1969- 17803 :1977- 25251 = 42%
1954- 8605 :1968-8988 = 4.5%.

Last year, around 20 recent-immigrant youths got into a verbal argument with a Swedish girl in Södertälje . They called her 'Swedish whore', she called them 'blackheads' (both popular derogatory terms here), they beat her unconscious. Five other guys saw what was happening ("They were lifting her head and kicking it") and tried to help; they got noses and other things broken before police arrived. The mainstream media reported it, but most didn't mention the gang's ethnicity of course. Recently it was announced that the prosecution had dropped the case due to lack of evidence. "

The prosecutor's comment:
"The problem is that it was dark and chaotic and lots of people on the scene. Additionally there were no cameras, and especially there were no witnesses. Witnesses are a rare thing in Södertälje, especially among youths"

I tried to find an English translation but couldn't - I can only guarantee that I haven't distorted the reported facts.

'Romario' (immigrant) was knifed to death in the south of Sweden a year ago or so by other immigrants; this case has essentially been dropped too because the three that virtually everyone know are guilty blame each other / their memories and not one of the witnesses will witness. They fear internal retribution more than Swedish courts.

As for the sexual crimes, it's a stretch to try and pin that increase just on immigrants. First off, the council even says the increase over that time frame is partly due to an increase in reporting. Second, for rape statistics you're failing to correct for the change in law in 2005 that crimes that were previously sexual misdemeanors being reclassified as rapes. Third, it has also been suggested that this increase could be due to the more recent trend towards a more active night life, with parties in private homes, and with the advent of online "dating" sites that enable contacts, often for purely sexual reasons. Blaming the internet is just as logical as blaming immigrants here.

Is half a pin still a pin?

Non-job immigration started en-masse in the 1980s ->

Sexual offences reported:
1952: 2756
1980: 3096

1982: 3904
2008: 14342

Brå writes : "Over the past ten years, the number of reported sex crimes has increased by 58 percent. This increase is probably due to a combination of an increase the tendency to report the crimes and an increase in actual criminality. At the same time, there is a large hidden number as regards crimes of a sexual nature"
- > Of course they can't list immigration as a cause as such statistics are not kept (public, anyway), but since poverty and segregation is common in areas where (recent) immigrants are a majority, in part because of discrimination, and since these areas tend to attract even more immigrants than other places, amplifying the problems, it is logical to conclude that recent mass-immigration is a factor. Especially since these areas have higher-than-average amounts of crimes reported, as already shown an example of. How big of a factor though, neither of us can know for certain.

In regards to the change in the law in 2005- numbers didn't jump dramatically right after, so how big of an impact on statistics did this have, would you happen to know? The change meant that the requirement of violence or force was dropped from the rape classification if the victim was <15 years old or in a state incapable of defence.

As for Iraqi and Iranian refugees, here are some random figures. "Until 2006, only 202 Iraqis had come to the US. . . In the past three years, 25,659 Iraqi refugees have arrived." One random link places the number at around 80k Iranian refugees in the US, with probably 300k-400k Iranian Americans in the US.

I wasn't aware of that. The 'Christian Science Monitor' though...?

Also from that article " It hasn't been smooth sailing for the thousands of Iraqi refugees entering America's resettlement program. Only 11 percent are finding work this year, compared with 80 percent two years ago. Many are frustrated as benefits dwindle, cash runs out, and eviction notices pile up."

As for Iranians, your first number appears reasonable, even if the link was random indeed.
-> http://www.irainc.org/iranref/statistics.php. I can't verify your 'total number of Iranian-Americans" either. (I don't even know the definition? Call a youth "Iranian-Swede" here and you'd be called racist and worse
It is a safe guess to say that Sweden has a lot more / total pop though, whatever that means.

I'm not saying immigrants are bad, I'm saying recent immigration policies are bad. Which would make some spit and say 'that's the same thing you racist' but I can't help that.

 

[JKing106]

How many Iraqi civilians have died over the last 8 years?

We all remember this little nugget, don't we?

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/05/08/kentucky.iraq.soldier.rape/

 

[L00PY]

Not quite, although there have been sharp increases for this type of crime before:
Assault: 2000- 58846: 2008- 84566 = 44&#37; increase,
1969- 17803 :1977- 25251 = 42%
1954- 8605 :1968-8988 = 4.5%.

Ok, I actually did the math. On average, every 18 year span saw an increase of 132% of assault. The rate of increase since 2000 has actually been very low, with significantly less of an increase than any other time 8 year time period. Plotting the data actually makes the low increase in recent times very obvious.

On average, every 8 year span saw an increase of 43%. Again, the most recent years have had much lower increases than in the past. It's actually been relatively flat aside for a dramatic increase in the late 60s and early 70s when the increase was double the historic average. Any increases since then have been pretty mild in comparison.

As for sexual assault, I'm even more convinced that the historical data tremendously under reported crimes. During that time period in the late 60s and early 70s when increases in assaults were twice that of any other time, there was actually a reported decrease in sexual offenses. This makes no sense.

Also, looking at the numbers you've been quoting doesn't quite control for population increases. The per 100k statistics are probably a little better. Here's a quick and dirty graph of percent increases over the eight years prior. As expected, the numbers don't really show a huge jump during times increased immigration -- just random noise for the most part. . . .



For those that dislike imageshack, here's a direct link to the image.

 

[wwswimming]

shame on those Malmo Muslims for speaking up for the Palestinians in the Gaza.

http://www.thewe.cc/thewei/&_/images7/iraq_photos/dead_baby_in_rubble.jpe

/\ sample of Israel's work

more info about how it all started in 1948 -
http://www.palestineremembered.com/

i thought Holocaust Denial was bad ?

Israel has put the Palestinians in a concentration camp in the desert. They are inflicting a Holocaust on the Palestinians just as surely as the German Nazi's killed 3.5 million Jews.

but - Israel has attempted to make commemoration of "Al Nakba" illegal.

"Al Nakba" is Palestinian for "the Catastrophe", referring to the destruction of 400 Palestinian villages by Israel in 1948.

 

[Grabo]

Ok, I actually did the math. On average, every 18 year span saw an increase of 132&#37; of assault. The rate of increase since 2000 has actually been very low, with significantly less of an increase than any other time 8 year time period. Plotting the data actually makes the low increase in recent times very obvious.

You dodge most of my points, including my main one. Reading all your replies, this is actually very obvious. Are you silently agreeing with the rest or do you just not feel like commenting upon it? [Social and economic issues, segregation and discrimination, unfavorable crime statistics for areas with >70% immigrants, unrest among both immigrants and natives]

Additionally, you are mixing 8-year periods with 18-year periods in a way that leaves it unclear whether this is intentional or not.

Assault -
8-year:
1950 - 1958 : 13.6% increase.
1970 - 1978 : 23.7% increase.
2000 - 2008 : 43.7% increase.

Though granted, if you look at a 28-year period, 1952 - 1980, 1980 - 2008, the increase is very similiar. So it depends on what time frame you use. Not that you seem like the kind of person who would ever yield or even agree on a point, which makes discussions fruitless.

As for sexual assault, I'm even more convinced that the historical data tremendously under reported crimes. During that time period in the late 60s and early 70s when increases in assaults were twice that of any other time, there was actually a reported decrease in sexual offenses. This makes no sense.

And how do you know that we suffered a dramatic increase in sex offences in the 60s and 70s if you don't wish to look at the statistics? This makes no sense.

 

[L00PY]

I was trying to point out that picking individual pairs of 8 year comparisons is very misleading. Every time point for assaults has had a larger increase in the past that is not "explainable" by laying the blame on immigrants or Muslims. When you look at the over all picture (by comparing it against the average or with a graph of all the years) it becomes clear that there hasn't really been a dramatic increase in recent times at all.

If there hasn't been an unexplainable increase in crime, there's no reason to address the main argument as it's based upon a fallacy.

Providing a sensationalized report or two of a crime adds little when you ignore the tens of thousands of crimes that aren't made into sensational reports.

As for sexual assaults, I have looked at all of the linked the statistics and posted a friendly graph of one measure. If the historical data is suspect, it's not particularly meaningful to try to compare current data. This especially holds true if Swedish sexual offenses were under reported in the past, as the data suggests. Look at it yourself if you like and provide a good reason why assaults skyrocketed and sexual assaults dropped or remained flat. Remember, rape is as much a crime of violence and power as it is a of sex.

As for the 2005 change in law, take a look at how many rapes were reported in 2004 and again in 2005. There was clearly a huge effect.

 

[iGas]

Wow!

What an ignorant post. IMHO Sweden have just as much trouble as any other cities in the world. Even in America there are part of big cities that the authority do not have control over its street. I'm also sure that there are area that "fire and emergency workers will no longer enter without police protection".

 

[Grabo]

I was trying to point out that picking individual pairs of 8 year comparisons is very misleading. Every time point for assaults has had a larger increase in the past that is not "explainable" by laying the blame on immigrants or Muslims. When you look at the over all picture (by comparing it against the average or with a graph of all the years) it becomes clear that there hasn't really been a dramatic increase in recent times at all.

Even if you are interpreting overall assault counts better than I am, criminality in areas / suburbs of Stockholm and Malm&#246; where immigrants make up a majority is still higher than where they are not, look at statistics or talk to the police. Issues with discrimination still abound, as do poverty and social ones.

As I've already stated- I think it's a problem with our policies, rather than what race/ origin people are of, yet you seem somewhat obsessed with the idea that I'm 'blaming bad things on the immigrants'.

If there hasn't been an unexplainable increase in crime, there's no reason to address the main argument as it's based upon a fallacy.

Providing a sensationalized report or two of a crime adds little when you ignore the tens of thousands of crimes that aren't made into sensational reports.

Hah, ok, nice trying to discuss something with you.
And ask any Swede if I was describing those two events 'sensationalistically'.

As for sexual assaults, I have looked at all of the linked the statistics and posted a friendly graph of one measure. If the historical data is suspect, it's not particularly meaningful to try to compare current data. This especially holds true if Swedish sexual offenses were under reported in the past, as the data suggests. Look at it yourself if you like and provide a good reason why assaults skyrocketed and sexual assaults dropped or remained flat. Remember, rape is as much a crime of violence and power as it is a of sex.

Are you implying that rapes should be dually classified, as rapes as well as assaults? Or just that if the number of assaults increase, the number of rapes must as well?
If you think the latter, why do you think so? I mean, you make a friendly and/or dirty graph of statistics that you agree with, and call the ones you don't agree with suspect?

As for the 2005 change in law, take a look at how many rapes were reported in 2004 and again in 2005. There was clearly a huge effect.

More were classified as rapes, yes, of course. Rapes are part of the sexual offence numbers though, and that change wasn't greater than the 2007-2008 one.

Let me ask you something concrete : do you think the Islamic view of women is sound?
Have you any idea the kind of conflict there can be between young males brought up to the Islamic faith and the western view of women?
For every generation they become a good deal more secular, in many cases, but it takes generations, and there's a steady stream of new people with the same background.

How hard is it to dislike Islam when according to a recent report (in CNN a week or so ago) it is by far the religion with the most numerous followers, and they have a view of women like the one they have? As I said, Sweden is pretty secular, and many can't even understand how anyone could even be Christian. I dislike all organized religion on a personal level, but of course everyone must have the right to think what they want. 'Freedom of religion' isn't exactly a theme in any dominantly Islamic country though. (And I can't shake the mental reference I make to the looming Jihad in Dune )

'Clearly' 'Huge' 'Obviously' etc - these kinds of statements make you sound arrogant in my eyes. But go for it, it's not like we are making much progress anyway.

iGas: Sweden isn't a city and there is no place in Sweden where emergency workers won't go alone except there. They have issues in the immigrant-heavy areas around Stockholm too, but it hasn't quite reached Malm&#246;'s proportions yet.

Edit. And it isn't as if 'immigrants' is one big Arabic muslim homogenous group either. What people speaking Arabic think of some people speaking Persian, and what Turks feel about Kurds and vice versa, let's just say that the cogs don't roll on the same street.

 

[jpeyton]

You are guessing that "I'd rather spit on than fight for" your indigenous population? I'm sorry, I have no idea what led you to that conclusion, or, indeed, what the hell you're talking about. Please explain, if I am not asking too much.

FYI, what he's trying to say is "if you're not with us, you're against us". The motto of his personal hero.

 

[daniel49]

This happens


News article to continue it on






Well this is basically a CLEAR example of the Islamic hate on Jews.

Its clear that it is NOT a hate on SIMPLY Israel, but instead Jews as a whole.

THEY threw ROCKS at a 90 year old holocaust survivor! That isnt simple hate. that is a complete antipathy on a person simply because of their religion.


Its terrible what is happening in this city. This city is simply an example of how radical Islam is destructive and hating no matter the circumstance.

Radical Islamic countries like Iran are JUST LIKE THIS TOWN! the only difference is that the country has more ways to cover things up.

Take a look at the cities/countries where the muslim population is 90-95% muslim. hardly a suprise.