What happens if the health care bill fails?

[nobodyknows]

And since the Dems are trying that forgives everything. They can even enact policies that outright kill people and still be praised.

You remind me of the people who were hyping herpes as the God's revenge against promiscuity.... right up until AIDS came along.

 

[nobodyknows]

really?

Medicare part D?
HSA?

Attempted to get insurance sold across state lines, but democrats stopped that.

I will agree that it has not been a major priority, but it has not exactly been ignored either.

Tell that to Hillary.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

But, that's what many describe will happen if this bill *does* pass...

Yeah, that's why insurance companies are fighting it kicking and screaming.

 

[Acanthus]

Care to explain why the usage of the emergency room did not decline in Massachusetts when it passed its "universal health care" and families continued to use it as their primary care facility?

You would need substantially more information about coverage, why people were coming in, preventative care coverage, population and migratory factors, etc...

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Well, hopefully since just about everybody sees the need for HC reform they'll go back to the drawing baord and be able to get it done in a bipartisan manner. Hopefully it will be at least a somewhat decent bill too.

Fern

LOL! Comedy gold right there!


Hello, I'm a nigerian prince and I need your help to save my country. I have a proposition that will make you very rich!

 

[JD50]

How about this idea, not from republicans but from conservatives. Stop giving health care to people who can't afford it.

That's absurd. No one in this country can afford healthcare unless they are independently wealthy. Every rational person knows that something needs to change.

 

[Jaskalas]

Ah yes, you never supported status quo, right, except for opposing any actual attempt to reform it while people are dying unnecessarily, while you wait for "the best of all options."

To HELL with your 2,300 page behemoth.

How about you try to pass decent legislation. How about you tackle the issue of healthcare in a piece by piece basis and hold votes on very specific issues within the bill.

Make one such bill an extension of coverage. Hold a vote, let the voters see who stands for it. Let November's election respond to that vote. If people want it passed, they'll remove the obstacles.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally Posted by blackangst1
Top quality care too!

Thats why they flood our emergency rooms and welfare roles.....cuz Mexico is together...next argument.

Check your meter, sir.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

You remind me of the people who were hyping herpes as the God's revenge against promiscuity.... right up until AIDS came along.

And you remind me of someone who fell on their head. Have you gotten out long enough to do a search and see if in all the years I've been here I've said anything like that?

You remind me of a guy that was saying that medicaid pays for certain generic drugs only because the government is paid off by the drug industry, and that the only way out is to have the government run health care.

Wait, that WAS you.

I also remember someone saying that if people didn't get their health care they'd storm the hospitals and force them to give it for free.

Wait, that WAS you.

I know why you attribute stupid things to me. You say them so often that you can't hear anyone else.

 

[cubeless]

Tell that to Hillary.

you finally got something right... let's see... dem pres; dem congress; dem assholes can't manage to pass their 'most cherished' legislation... yup... ask hillary...

 

[piasabird]

We just save a little money.

Even if the healthcare bill passes you will not get any healthcare from it, you will only see higher taxes. Takes 4 years to kick in. OBammah would have to be on his second term before you saw any health care.

However, if it is challenged in the Supreme Court it may be overthrown anyway. The same justices that O'Bammah spurned will be there to give his healthcare the big boot!

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Back to the drawing board?

Other than drawing up a plan for real socialized medicine, there's not much to do. I suppose they might try another band-aid feel-good plan to assuage the public while putting even more money into insurance companies' coffers.

Throw their hands up in disgust and walk away from it?

That's more or less what would happen though I'm sure they would keep trying. The Republicans wouldn't want to be known as advocates of "Don't get sick and if you do, die quickly". They'd want to put a smiley face on it somehow.

Do they start devoting a year to jobs creation?

They should already be working on policies that would lead to job creation. Surely they can do more than one thing at once. However, even though it's clear to a great many Americans what needs to be done, our politicians refuse to even acknowledge the source of our problems. Hence, it will all just be a waste of time.

They could open up many jobs and start bringing jobs back to America's shores simply by ending the H-1B and L-1 visa programs, raising tariffs to end foreign outsourcing, and deporting all of the illegals and ending mass immigration, but they won't even mention any of those policies as a possibility.

Rioting in the streets?

I'm guessing we won't have rioting in the streets. Rather, Americans will slowly acquiesce and accept their new third world standard of living while the college-educated amongst us engage in rhetorical light saber battles over the Internet.

Will the takeover of student loans still be pursued?

That's very possible. After all of the unemployed and underemployed college graduates default, the taxpayer will end up footing the bill. Without a government takeover, private companies would foot the bill. The Education Bubble is going to have to burst at some point and it's not going to be pretty.

I think they'll drop it. It's pretty obvious it's been a my way or the highway process from the get-go. There'll be no compromises with those that are not as enlightened.

It's hard to compromise with people whose plan consists of, "Don't get sick and if you do, die quickly."

A "what happens if the health care bill passes" would be interesting too.

Since it isn't real reform (real socialized medicine) the percentage of GDP spent on health care will continue to increase. Wealthy insurance executives will continue to get richer while the rest of the nation becomes poorer.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Well, hopefully since just about everybody sees the need for HC reform they'll go back to the drawing baord and be able to get it done in a bipartisan manner. Hopefully it will be at least a somewhat decent bill too.

What do you think a bipartisan bill would look like? How would it increase coverage while reducing medical bankruptcies and decreasing the percentage of GDP that we spend on health care? Would it really be anything more than, "Don't get sick and if you do, die quickly" with a smiley face sticker on it?

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Yeah, we got it. Dem's good Repub's bad.

OK. So what is the Republican's plan and how will it increase coverage, reduce medical bankruptcies, and decrease the percentage of our GDP that we are spending on health care?

From what I can tell the Republican plan consists of, "Don't get sick and if you do, die quickly."

 

[waggy]

Well, hopefully since just about everybody sees the need for HC reform they'll go back to the drawing baord and be able to get it done in a bipartisan manner. Hopefully it will be at least a somewhat decent bill too.

Fern

THIS!

I wan't them to go back to the drawing board and give us something that is good for the nation. NO "kickbacks" no pork No bullshit.

show how its going to get paid. No bullshit double dipping on money no bullshit period.

I think it will hurt dems MORE if it pass's then if fails. Seems they are going do anything they can to pass it.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

What do you think a bipartisan bill would look like? How would it increase coverage while reducing medical bankruptcies and decreasing the percentage of GDP that we spend on health care? Would it really be anything more than, "Don't get sick and if you do, die quickly" with a smiley face sticker on it?

Well I think you can kiss the notion of any health care reform goodby. It's beyond the ability of DC to comprehend. They think it's about coverage and insurance.

Health care is about the relationship between provider and patient. Everything needs to center around that, and they simply are unable to get it. Since government has decided that it want's to effectively run medicine it should be interesting. They might as well have put Helen Keller in charge of judging a photo exhibition.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

The only thing that will fix healthcare costs is more competition and less regulation.

That's how the nations that have 100% coverage while spending a smaller percentage of GDP on health care are doing it, right?

Getting rid of lawyers and healthcare executives is only going to leave you with a Government monopoly.

Which has proven to be far less expensive and more efficient and effective in all of the other first world nations.

Lawyers, actually serve a purpose. As do Health Care Executives.

Without the health care executives the second home industry and the yacht-building industry would be fucked, so I guess they serve a purpose.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Cuba, is a pioneer in UHC. 🙂

Could we also argue that a great many third world countries that do not have any real health care systems to speak of at all are good examples of real capitalist health care? Would anarchy (such as Somalia) be a good example of health care without government regulation?

It seems like we should be comparing the U.S. system to what other first world nations have and not Mexico or Cuba. The proper comparison is to Canada, the UK, France, Japan, Switzerland, Germany, etc.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

That's how the nations that have 100% coverage while spending a smaller percentage of GDP on health care are doing it, right?



Which has proven to be far less expensive and more efficient and effective in all of the other first world nations.



Without the health care executives the second home industry and the yacht-building industry would be fucked, so I guess they serve a purpose.

That 0.0001% of total health care really does screw things up.

Seriously, people haven't done anything to analyze why American health care costs as much as it does, and the government sure isn't interested in knowing. If it was, it would have bothered to have people outside the beltway who have a clue look into it first before pandering. Why bother? A party says something, and it's Faithful will follow.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Well I think you can kiss the notion of any health care reform goodby. It's beyond the ability of DC to comprehend. They think it's about coverage and insurance.

Health care is about the relationship between provider and patient. Everything needs to center around that, and they simply are unable to get it. Since government has decided that it want's to effectively run medicine it should be interesting. They might as well have put Helen Keller in charge of judging a photo exhibition.

Isn't the economic aspect of it, which is what this debate is really all about, about coverage and insurance? We can talk about the relationship between patients and their providers all we want, but at some point someone has to pay the providers.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

That 0.0001% of total health care really does screw things up.

I don't know what percentage it is, but the level of compensation these guys receive is offensive none-the-less.

Seriously, people haven't done anything to analyze why American health care costs as much as it does, and the government sure isn't interested in knowing. If it was, it would have bothered to have people outside the beltway who have a clue look into it first before pandering. Why bother? A party says something, and it's Faithful will follow.

Please tell us, in your view, why health care in the U.S. costs as much as it does.

To me it's very obvious--a large amount of the money spent on health care is going to employ people who have nothing to do with the actual provision of health care--insurance companies and their employees, medical billing specialists, insurance brokers, company benefits plan managers, etc. On top of that, we're also paying more for drugs than other nations. We also need to contemplate the wisdom of spending large amounts of money to prolong the lives of dying people for a few extra months at a low quality of life.

In T.R. Ried's documentary, Sick Around the World, there's a great scene where he asks a British doctor or hospital manager to show him the medical billing department--it was a mere single drawer in a small desk.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Isn't the economic aspect of it, which is what this debate is really all about, about coverage and insurance? We can talk about the relationship between patients and their providers all we want, but at some point someone has to pay the providers.

If the intent was to pay providers we wouldn't need a few thousand pages to do so.

It's called the Golden Rule. He who has the gold makes the rules. That's how it always is, but the government can do things quite nasty which is completely unintentional simply by not understanding fully the consequences of their actions.

I've used the "Walking Dead Man" as an example where Medicaid changed the rules before he got his new card, and consequently he won't get his AIDS med until it's too late. Anyone attempting to circumvent the system is considered to have committed a criminal act.

He has insurance, and it's a literal crime for him to use it.

Why did this happen? Because the legislature wanted to curb fraud. They created rules which didn't take into account how that would legally be interpreted by the bureaucracy and law enforcement.

If they changed the rules now, it's almost certainly too late.

I've been told that this isn't important to the big picture.

 

[cubby1223]

Q: What happens if the health care bill fails?
A: This poor woman will be forced to pay for her own health care costs.


hmmm, wonder why the Dems don't trot her out for Obama's pep rallies?

 

[Fern]

What do you think a bipartisan bill would look like? How would it increase coverage while reducing medical bankruptcies and decreasing the percentage of GDP that we spend on health care? Would it really be anything more than, "Don't get sick and if you do, die quickly" with a smiley face sticker on it?

What do I think it could look like?
Re: Cost cutting. Get some cost cutting measures in there. I'd prefer they focus on where the bulk of the costs are currently incurred - chronic ilness. Physicians say we need standards of care, to be established by the the relative authoritative medical standards boards, which would substantially cut costs etc. But I think even something less effective like simple tort reform would induce enough Repubs to sign up and get a bill passed.

Re: Abortion. Stick with long established precedent and keep abortion funds out of the bill, you'll bring back some dems and won't scare away some repubs.

Re: Immigrants. The current bill doesn't allow legal immigrants to participate. The illegal immigration problem is of great concern to me, but even I do not understand why legal immigrants are excluded etc. This will bring back some of the Hispanic Caucus. I don't think Repubs would have a problem with legal immigrants participating.

Re: Medical Bankruptcies are best addressed through expanded coverage and HC insurance reform. Both of these are substanially addressed in the current bill AFAIK.

A big 'hang up' for many repubs and conservatives is forced purchase of HC insurance, even so with the addition of the above items I think they could get passage anyway.

Listen to Julien Epstein (worked in the Clinton Admin), he basically says the same thing. I.e., not that hard to get passage by throwing in some cost-cutting measures etc so favored by the Repubs. You're not trying to get every Repub to vote for it, just enough for passage.

Fern

 

[JSt0rm]

Q: What happens if the health care bill fails?
A: This poor woman will be forced to pay for her own health care costs.


hmmm, wonder why the Dems don't trot her out for Obama's pep rallies?

hahahahah oh man thats classic.

You bring up a valid point being that americans are fucking stupid. You would have your jackass type breaking as many bones as they can on camera and getting free healthcare just to fuck with the system and have an audience. I mean i gots mines so maybe i should just let them all die.

However after reading she is getting paid to do it so she probably has health insurance through some llc she has set up for herself. Meaning we will pay for her anyhow. All the more reason to tax that food she eats.