oh my under .500 and 11.5 games out the week of the allstar break? is it possible to recover? will we have the Amazins' back or The 2nd worst team money could buy (only beaten by the '92 mets)
what happened to the Mets this year?
- Thread starter MrDingleDangle
- Start date
Too much restructuring, maybe..
Anyway, it sucks.
That triple + stealing home by Roger Cedeno on Saturday against the Yanks was pretty sweet, tho.
amish
Anyway, it sucks.
That triple + stealing home by Roger Cedeno on Saturday against the Yanks was pretty sweet, tho.
amish
Hitting Hitting Hitting.
Remember this year the next time some old baseball fan tells you the game is 90% pitching.
It isn't. The game is around 50% pitching.
The Mets have had the 2nd or 3rd best pitching staff in the majors all year, and it hasn't been enough.
Let's go through the positions.
C- Piazza - Best hitting catcher in MLB history. Having the worst year of his career.
1B- Big Mo - Power slowly returning. By FAR having the worst full year of his career.
2B- Alomar - HOF 2b. By FAR having the worst year of his career.
SS- ReyO. - ReyRey. Don't worry. People don't know this, but the Mets have the best SS prospect in baseball. He's only 19 and in A-ball. Jose Reyes. Remember that name.
3B - Fonzie - Decent year. Power hasn't returned to typical Fonzie levels (17-27 HRs). Worst power year of his career.
RF - Burnitz - Poor guy, I really like him. Obviously having by FAR the worst year of his career.
CF - Timo/Payton - Happy Dance. Timo looks like a gamer. Needs more patience. Payton is a good 4th OFer who is hot right now.
LF - Cedeno - 11 SB? Worst year of his short career as a starter.
So add it up. You are not going to have a good year when your C, 1b, 2b, 3b, RF, and LF are having career worst years. It can't happen. Worst team money can buy? Nah, at least these guys aren't a-holes. I'd say wait till next year, but everyone will be a year older (C, 1b, 2b, RF are in their 30s).
A shame. Go Expos (and Twins and A's).
Remember this year the next time some old baseball fan tells you the game is 90% pitching.
It isn't. The game is around 50% pitching.
The Mets have had the 2nd or 3rd best pitching staff in the majors all year, and it hasn't been enough.
Let's go through the positions.
C- Piazza - Best hitting catcher in MLB history. Having the worst year of his career.
1B- Big Mo - Power slowly returning. By FAR having the worst full year of his career.
2B- Alomar - HOF 2b. By FAR having the worst year of his career.
SS- ReyO. - ReyRey. Don't worry. People don't know this, but the Mets have the best SS prospect in baseball. He's only 19 and in A-ball. Jose Reyes. Remember that name.
3B - Fonzie - Decent year. Power hasn't returned to typical Fonzie levels (17-27 HRs). Worst power year of his career.
RF - Burnitz - Poor guy, I really like him. Obviously having by FAR the worst year of his career.
CF - Timo/Payton - Happy Dance. Timo looks like a gamer. Needs more patience. Payton is a good 4th OFer who is hot right now.
LF - Cedeno - 11 SB? Worst year of his short career as a starter.
So add it up. You are not going to have a good year when your C, 1b, 2b, 3b, RF, and LF are having career worst years. It can't happen. Worst team money can buy? Nah, at least these guys aren't a-holes. I'd say wait till next year, but everyone will be a year older (C, 1b, 2b, RF are in their 30s).
A shame. Go Expos (and Twins and A's).
ThePresence
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Well, what does it mean when all the overpriced veterans are underachieving? It might mean that Bobby Valentine is having the worst (and last) year of his met career. I dont see how anyone can blame Phillips though, he got the players, they're just not playing.
I'm not sure about that. There are a lot of Bobby haters out there, but in the past he has always gotten his team to overacheive based on the talent they've had since 1997. They always seem to do better than theyre "expected" record based on runs scored and allowed. Can a manager be blamed for bad hitting? I'm not sure. Maybe the old hitting coach, maybe bad luck, maybe players changing their swing because of Shea stadium (its a very big park, pitcher friendly park). I don't get it.
I think its a case where it isn't the manager's or GM's fault, its the players. (But you can't fire all the players, sooo).
And for those who say that the Yankees also spend money, but spend it wisely, you can lick me
The Yankees salary is almost $40 million more than the Mets right now.I dont' think the Mets are underachieving, I think that they really are this bad. Yes, if you take all these players and put em in their prime, that's one hell of a team, but the problem is none of those guys that they picked up are in their prime anymore, or are not proven players, such as roger cedeno who seems to be off and on a lot. Roberto Alomar has been a big dissapointment, being a future hall-of-famer and all, but is he really underachieving or is it just the rapid decline that most ballplayers seem to go through near the end of their careers? Lastly, the Mets wont be the worst team money can buy. The Orioles hold that claim, and have held it for a long time The dodgers were up there too a couple years ago but it's finally paying off for them. Go Braves!
The dodgers were up there too a couple years ago but it's finally paying off for them. Go Braves!
ThePresence
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Yeah, but alot of the Yankee stars are home grown. Mariano, Bernie, Soriano, Posada, Jeter, Pettite. The "bought" talent is Giambi, Ventura (eat your heart outOriginally posted by: zod
I'm not sure about that. There are a lot of Bobby haters out there, but in the past he has always gotten his team to overacheive based on the talent they've had since 1997. They always seem to do better than theyre "expected" record based on runs scored and allowed. Can a manager be blamed for bad hitting? I'm not sure. Maybe the old hitting coach, maybe bad luck, maybe players changing their swing because of Shea stadium (its a very big park, pitcher friendly park). I don't get it.
I think its a case where it isn't the manager's or GM's fault, its the players. (But you can't fire all the players, sooo).
And for those who say that the Yankees also spend money, but spend it wisely, you can lick me
), Clemens. Mussina was traded for. So the Yankees know who to sign and who not to sign from the farm system. The Mets have no clue. They sign the wrong people, and their farm system is weak at best.i dont think u can blame valentine since he has been so good with the team in the past...
i dont know who to blame...
maybe they will be able to come back like they did last year and at least make it exciting in sept.
i dont know who to blame...
maybe they will be able to come back like they did last year and at least make it exciting in sept.
ThePresence
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Underachieving is usually blamed on the manager rightly or wrongly. And I DO think they're underachieving. I happen to hate Valentine, I think he needs to do some growing up, but thats just me. He can act so petty sometimes. But hey, Im a Yankee fan.
UDT89
Diamond Member
- Jul 31, 2001
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fonzo typical 17-27 homers??
Last year was a career best year, you will NEVER see that again. Especially with were he bats in the line up sometimes. When the mets got mo vaughn, i knew my season was gonna be hell. They were relying on a guy who hasnt played baseball in a year. Thats a lot of faith. PLUS, they have burnitz too. I think this year is an attempt to break all the offensive strike out records.
The best part is now Jeff Kent and Thome are gonna be up for grabs, too bad we got Vaughn. Oh well, they'll make it exciting in september like they always do and miss the playoffs by a game.
Last year was a career best year, you will NEVER see that again. Especially with were he bats in the line up sometimes. When the mets got mo vaughn, i knew my season was gonna be hell. They were relying on a guy who hasnt played baseball in a year. Thats a lot of faith. PLUS, they have burnitz too. I think this year is an attempt to break all the offensive strike out records.
The best part is now Jeff Kent and Thome are gonna be up for grabs, too bad we got Vaughn. Oh well, they'll make it exciting in september like they always do and miss the playoffs by a game.
What happened to the Mets? Nothing. Only a blind Mets fan could think they were anything but a .500 ball club going into the season. They aren't underachieving. They are playing to their level of incompetence. Once again, they're sniffing Yankees fumes. Must be a bitter pill to swallow. Your team is going down the toilet, and they play in an airport parking lot called Flushing.
I bet you can attribute much of this mess on two things: 1. Extrememly poor scouting reports. You cannot tell me that the Mets seriously thought that Mo Vaughn was going to be returning to his former self. Didn't anybody give this guy a workout?(Rhetorical question) Burnitz always has struck out a tremendous number of times.So guess what? You take the strikeout leaders for the past SEVERAL years and you stick them in the middle of your lineup. The result? Your run production is on par with the pantywaist lineup you had last year. Again, it comes to piss poor scouting. Reason 2. I seriously think that the Mets were trying to "keep up" with the Yankees. Never will work.Oh and all you Met fans: Raul Mondesi just went to the Yankees for a AA pitcher. A friggin' AA pitcher!
I am a diehard Braves fan and it amazes me about their scouting. What other team has not one, but two pitchers who were out of baseball for the last year.Oh, and one missed the last two seasons. How? You get someone out to him and check out his stuff.You dont go by past record and whatnot. The Braves always seem to find the castoffs who will perform when called on. The Mets just get high and pass out.Yeah, so we only won one world series in the past ten years. Its fun being in the hunt every year though!
One last thought: The entire Mets starting pitching staff is up for free agency.That Al Leiter is not talking to the Mets until after he becomes a free agent does not bode well.
Peace
Lounatik
I am a diehard Braves fan and it amazes me about their scouting. What other team has not one, but two pitchers who were out of baseball for the last year.Oh, and one missed the last two seasons. How? You get someone out to him and check out his stuff.You dont go by past record and whatnot. The Braves always seem to find the castoffs who will perform when called on. The Mets just get high and pass out.Yeah, so we only won one world series in the past ten years. Its fun being in the hunt every year though!
One last thought: The entire Mets starting pitching staff is up for free agency.That Al Leiter is not talking to the Mets until after he becomes a free agent does not bode well.
Peace
Lounatik
rh71
No Lifer
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You can tell who the Yankee (anti-Met) fans are in here. Please if you're going to give an opinion about the Mets, don't make it sound so obvious that you only mean to push your holier than thou Yankees. It's funny how they lost 3 games to the Mets this year. Hahahaha. How's that possible ?
ThePresence
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Puhleeze. Thats the beauty of baseball, the best team does not always win. Anyone can win on any given night. Oh BTW, the Yanks also took 3 from the mets and split the season series. Big deal.
Originally posted by: ThePresence
Originally posted by: zod
Yeah, but alot of the Yankee stars are home grown. Mariano, Bernie, Soriano, Posada, Jeter, Pettite. The "bought" talent is Giambi, Ventura (eat your heart out
Weren't Mariano and Soriano basically bought? I wonder how much money the Yankees spend on guys like them and Andy Morales, Drew Henson, and the other prospects that they basically bought. But at least their farm system did produce, unlike the Mets. However, I don't think you can say that the Mets farm system is 'weak at best'. After this season, their farm system will probably be somewhere in the middle. If you made that statement at the beginning of the season,then I would have had to agree with you.
What the Mets need to do is rebuild. They need to trade players like Leiter, Astacio, Alomar, Trachsel, Guthrie (basically players too old to contribute in 2004 or 2005) for prospects. Vaughn, Burnitz, and Ordonez are almost untradeable.
The Mets should let Ordonez walk after next season and Reyes should be ready by 2004 and should be the starting shortstop. Next year they need to put at least one of Heilman or Strange into the starting rotation. Hopefully by 2005, Justin Huber will take over catcher and David Wright will take over 3B. And if Kazmir signs, he may be ready by then, too. So basically the Mets are going to be miserable next year, too, and need to target 2004/2005 as the year to contend again. They'll lose their overpriced and underperforming veterans, their top prospects should be ready and they should be able to sign some free agents at that time again.
ThePresence
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Mariano ans Soriano were not bought. Mariano is the cousin of Ruben Rivera. When Ruben was a top Yankee prospect he told Stick Michael (top Yankee scout) about a cousin of his in Panama who could pitch a bit. The Yanks went down there and signed him. They did not buy him. Soriano was playing in Japan, anyone coulda had him. Yanks were the ones who noticed him, went down there and signed him.
ThePresence
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Originally posted by: ThePresence
You must be a diehard Oriole fan.
Nah, it's much worse than that. Padres fan.
I believe that they were basically bought. No other team would have spent such money to sign them at that time. I could be wrong though. However, there's no way that you can say that the Yankees don't buy prospects. But it's not like they're the only team to do it, but the Yankees really go all out with it. They're really the only team that could have bought guys like Andy Morales, Henson, Soriano, Mariano Rivera, and weren't Aramboles & Pena (now Reds prospects that were traded for Henson after the Yankees initially traded him) also bought?
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