Well somebody realized they are not on the campaign trail anymore and that they are "really" in charge of this country! So they decided to take the positive position now even though they are still in total darkness!
So just exactly what is positive? Tobacco tax going higher? Gas price about 40% more? That the deficit for this FY is now 3X that of last year? That we can now do stem cell research without controls? That we can absolutely investigate the CIA for protecting this country? And that we have made a tactical error in announcing our withdrawal from Iraq that emboldened the enemy? And that we can raise taxes to those who makes more than $250K to support bums and lazy Americans? To provide a Universal Health Care at the cost of those who work hard and at the benefit of those who don't? IMO I have yet to hear or see anything positive! Do you? Maybe you did received a lot of monies from the stimulus package that's why you think there is something positive since this Admin took over? But that is money you and the rest of Americans will have to pay up to and including your grandchildren!
Thank you! Poor people need to be taxed too, since they'll waste their money on stupid crap anyway
(there is a little bit of sarcasm in there)
Siddhartha
Lifer
- Oct 17, 1999
- 12,505
- 3
- 81
The only rational non-partisan debate I have heard concerning the economy lately is whether it has it bottom or not.
My prediction will be on how soon the recovery happens. If the market recovers in his first two years in office Democrats will be fine. If it doesn't, the world will remember Obama as another Hoover (blamed for something beyond his control, although his efforts did not help the situation).
I assume you're one of those who doesn't approve of massive deficit spending. What's a better plan? I don't claim to know since I don't know enough about country and world scale economics to confidently plot a course. Do you?
Is there any politician who is more capable of handling the current economic environment in your opinion?
WhipperSnapper
Lifer
- Oct 30, 2004
- 11,442
- 32
- 91
The news is still very gloomy, but perhaps we've become desensitized to it and it now appears to be merely regular news. Likewise, once the U.S. has become a third world country, Americans will have become accustomed to living the way people do in India, China, Mexico, and South America.
Rustler
Golden Member
- Jan 14, 2004
- 1,253
- 1
- 81
In WWII we had a physical ecomony with plants producing round the clock...........now our ecomony is basically consumer driven with no base for manafucturing...................
WhipperSnapper has it correct.."Likewise, once the U.S. has become a third world country, Americans will have become accustomed to living the way people do in India, China, Mexico, and South America."
Also with the dismntling of the health care system it will be easier to eradicate the "less fortunate of our society".
'Hill Burton' Hospital Principle
The rebuilding effort can best be done in the spirit of the 1946 "Hospital Survey and Construction Act," which, for 25 years, built up the hospital and health-care system to high standards and accessibility. The nine-page law, often called the "Hill-Burton Act," after the bipartisan co-sponsors of the Act, Sens. Lister Hill (D-Ala.), and Harold Burton (R-Ohio), mandated Federal and local cooperation and funding, to see that the goal would be achieved of having a community hospital in every county, to guarantee hospital care to citizens: in rural counties at a ratio of 5.5 beds per 1,000 (sparsely settled regions require redundancy); and in urban areas, 4.5 beds per 1,000.
The Hill-Burton concept sees the community hospital as the hub of regional networks of health services, involving education, public health, sanitation, defense against epidemics and disasters, and research.
At the same time that the Hill-Burton hospital construction boom proceeded?providing many of the 3,089 U.S. counties with their first hospital ever?public-health programs and applied medical R&D all but eliminated polio, tuberculosis, and other diseases. Pertussis (whooping cough) declined from a peak of 156,000 cases in 1947 to 14,800 in 1960; diphtheria declined from 18,700 cases in 1945, to 900 in 1960. Mosquito control programs?including the use of the insecticide DDT, begun in 1940?were on the way to eliminating malaria and other mosquito-borne diseases.
By the mid-1970s, the Hill-Burton goal of 4.5 beds per 1,000 was nearly reached as the national average. Intervening laws furthered the approach: Amendments to the Hill-Burton Act in 1954 authorized funds for chronic-care facilities; in 1965, the Medicare and Medicaid health insurance programs were begun.
Then came the downshift, in line with the 1970s policy turn towards deregulation, privatization, and globalization. On Dec. 29, 1973, President Richard Nixon signed into law, with bipartisan support, the "Health Maintenance Organization and Resources Development Act," which, along with follow-up laws, ushered in the era of deregulation of health-care delivery, to the point where today, over 2,000 hospitals have shut down. Likewise, core public-health functions have been drastically reduced; hundreds of counties now have next to no programs at all. One of the most dramatic examples comes from the nation's capital.
In Fall 2001, the Washington, D.C. metro region could barely cope with the anthrax attack, given that its leading community hospital, the 150-year old D.C. General?a 500-bed, full-service facility with a pathology laboratory and isolation wing?had been shut down only months before, by direct action of Congress.
http://www.larouchepac.com/node/10238
WhipperSnapper has it correct.."Likewise, once the U.S. has become a third world country, Americans will have become accustomed to living the way people do in India, China, Mexico, and South America."
Also with the dismntling of the health care system it will be easier to eradicate the "less fortunate of our society".
'Hill Burton' Hospital Principle
The rebuilding effort can best be done in the spirit of the 1946 "Hospital Survey and Construction Act," which, for 25 years, built up the hospital and health-care system to high standards and accessibility. The nine-page law, often called the "Hill-Burton Act," after the bipartisan co-sponsors of the Act, Sens. Lister Hill (D-Ala.), and Harold Burton (R-Ohio), mandated Federal and local cooperation and funding, to see that the goal would be achieved of having a community hospital in every county, to guarantee hospital care to citizens: in rural counties at a ratio of 5.5 beds per 1,000 (sparsely settled regions require redundancy); and in urban areas, 4.5 beds per 1,000.
The Hill-Burton concept sees the community hospital as the hub of regional networks of health services, involving education, public health, sanitation, defense against epidemics and disasters, and research.
At the same time that the Hill-Burton hospital construction boom proceeded?providing many of the 3,089 U.S. counties with their first hospital ever?public-health programs and applied medical R&D all but eliminated polio, tuberculosis, and other diseases. Pertussis (whooping cough) declined from a peak of 156,000 cases in 1947 to 14,800 in 1960; diphtheria declined from 18,700 cases in 1945, to 900 in 1960. Mosquito control programs?including the use of the insecticide DDT, begun in 1940?were on the way to eliminating malaria and other mosquito-borne diseases.
By the mid-1970s, the Hill-Burton goal of 4.5 beds per 1,000 was nearly reached as the national average. Intervening laws furthered the approach: Amendments to the Hill-Burton Act in 1954 authorized funds for chronic-care facilities; in 1965, the Medicare and Medicaid health insurance programs were begun.
Then came the downshift, in line with the 1970s policy turn towards deregulation, privatization, and globalization. On Dec. 29, 1973, President Richard Nixon signed into law, with bipartisan support, the "Health Maintenance Organization and Resources Development Act," which, along with follow-up laws, ushered in the era of deregulation of health-care delivery, to the point where today, over 2,000 hospitals have shut down. Likewise, core public-health functions have been drastically reduced; hundreds of counties now have next to no programs at all. One of the most dramatic examples comes from the nation's capital.
In Fall 2001, the Washington, D.C. metro region could barely cope with the anthrax attack, given that its leading community hospital, the 150-year old D.C. General?a 500-bed, full-service facility with a pathology laboratory and isolation wing?had been shut down only months before, by direct action of Congress.
http://www.larouchepac.com/node/10238
BoberFett
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 37,562
- 9
- 81
No politicians are capable of properly running an economy because an economy can't be run. Economies are simply the aggregate effect of the actions of individuals and unless said politician is a totalitarian who directly controls the actions of the people they don't have the ability to do much at all.
And even if they could, a centrally planned economy is destined for failure. Just ask the USSR.
So, there's no hope?
It makes one wonder what the lobbyists on k street do - why there are 10s of thousands of them (double in the last decade). You know they're trying to sway politicians for their clients for monetary gain. If politicians have no economic power, what are the lobbyists doing?
Politicians have some influence in the guise of regulations and their enforcement. For example, regulations were either not enforced or rescinded concerning financial transactions the last decade which, in part, precipitated the mess that exists now.
And, of course, the federal reserve has some affect - even though, it's supposed to be free of political pressures.
I think people are not as depressed as predicted since we haven't slipped into the predicted economic depression. We're only in a deep recession so the suffering is not pervasive.
This not to say we're out of the woods yet.
StageLeft
No Lifer
- Sep 29, 2000
- 70,150
- 5
- 0
Imagine if the US had a real emergency, like a WW, where the deficit would be then. Right now we're just talking medicare to keep a fat old guy going a few months longer or SS so the seniors can keep playing bingo or welfare so baby mommas can get they drink on. The percentage of gov spending spent on things that clearly make sense for gov to pay for, like roads, military, continues to shrink.
frostedflakes
Diamond Member
- Mar 1, 2005
- 7,925
- 1
- 81
Basically this. I voted for the guy, but I honestly didn't expect the spending to be this nuts. I mean most candidates promise a lot of things but never deliver. I guess it's admirable that Obama is delivering on his campaign promises, but it sure is going to cost us a lot of money.
I'd love to, but under Obama's hawk eye, the amount of deaths have dropped to almost zero since he took office.
Iraq combat deaths at 6-year low
His presence as president alone is defeating terrorism. Much better then having a war in Iraq being the 'reason' why there were no terrorist attacks in the US.
BoberFett
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 37,562
- 9
- 81
I never said there's no hope. But economies naturally ebb and flow and to expect politicians to be able to stop that is delusional.
You misunderstand what economic power is. Politicians have financial power, not economic. The federal government spends trillions of dollars and lobbyists are there to pull some of it in their direction. That doesn't mean that politicians can steer the economy. I can spray someone with a garden hose but that doesn't mean I can make it rain.
In addition, government mandates that do attempt to wield economic power are almost invariably plagued by unintended consequences. Steering consumers through mandates leads to inefficiencies and misallocation of capital which are eventually corrected, and usually painfully. Just look at the housing mess. Bush and Co wanted to stave off the recession in 2001 so they reduced rates and loosened mortgage requirements. It helped the economy alright, right into the crapper. That's the kind of economic power the government has, and anyone who expects politicians to run things correctly is a dreamer.
You are correct that they have influence, but influence is not control. Look at all these incentives currently being throw around. The government will give you thousands up thousands of dollars to buy houses, buy cars. But the market continues to fall. They could mandate that all cars older than five years old must be destroyed and prop up the automakers that way. But eventually everyone would have a new car and we'd be right back where we were with car manufacturers going under, only everyone would be further in debt.
The basis of economics is supply and demand and no matter how much politicians pretend like they can change that, and no matter how many accounting games people play, at the end of the day that's what drives it all.
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