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What Happened to Afghanistan?

How many people can you realistically have looking for one man before they start getting in eachothers way? Not to mention, we will not send out troops into the wildlands of Pakistan where he most likely is. Hell, the Paksitani's have a hard enough time getting there.

As far as I am concerned, if he is isolated, he is less of a threat. If he is moving daily or weekly, he is even less of a threat. You do not have to capture someone to make their life miserable, you just have to keep them on the run.


Now be realistic... How many troops do you think we really need to look for him? Do you actually think there would be more over there if we were not in Iraq? Did it ever occur to you that the US has plenty of extra troops (250,000 in Korea and Europe) and if it needed them to find bin Ladin the generals would have called for them. We have about 1/20 reserves and 1/10 active troops in both Afghamistan and Iraq - is that being stretched too thin? Quit falling into the Michael Moore hellhole of stupid thinking and moronic logic.
 
You dont hear much about Afghanistan because theres not much really going on. The Afghanis are starting to be able to do the job themselves. After provincial elections whenever that might be, theres word that troop numbers will decrease here. Oh yeah, I say here because I'm in Afghaninstan. I get to see this stuff firsthand.
 
They are stashing the poppys in case this country ever wakes up to the mess we are in...
Then it's pump up the drug supply (Hey it worked for vietnam!)
 
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Originally posted by: umbrella39
What a useless OP post. Thanks for sharing the news with us.
Click to expand...
No news is good news, unless you're an anti-Busite. :roll:
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Well yeah, but Afghanistan itself is hardly a cause for disagreement between conservatives and liberals. Making a post attacking the opposition is silly when there is very little opposition to attack. If the OP had been a well reasoned post pointing out how well Afghanistan is doing that would be one thing. Instead we get a smart-ass jab at the people who (apparently) think invading Afghanistan was the wrong thing to do and Bush has never accomplished anything positive ever. As far as I can tell, that doesn't really describe very many people. So yes, that post was sort of useless.

Also, the keen observer will note that we still haven't brought bin Laden to justice, a main reason we invaded Afghanistan in the first place. And I know, I know, he's been "marginalized" and he's "on the run", but that's not how our justice system works. There is still work left to do before 9/11 has been made up for.
 
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Also, the keen observer will note that we still haven't brought bin Laden to justice, a main reason we invaded Afghanistan in the first place. And I know, I know, he's been "marginalized" and he's "on the run", but that's not how our justice system works. There is still work left to do before 9/11 has been made up for.
Click to expand...

The main reason to invade afgahnistan wasn't to capture bin ladin, it was to end the Taliban support of AQ and close the training camps regardless of what the press told you the reason was. We removed AQ's main training ground and state sponser and hopefully have removed them from the drug trade significantly enough to reduce their funding levels.

Even with the leadership in place if AQ doesn't have training camps and can't obtain and use funds then they are severely limited outside their base countries, it's called resource starving and it's a prime tennet of war.
 
Originally posted by: rahvin
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Also, the keen observer will note that we still haven't brought bin Laden to justice, a main reason we invaded Afghanistan in the first place. And I know, I know, he's been "marginalized" and he's "on the run", but that's not how our justice system works. There is still work left to do before 9/11 has been made up for.
Click to expand...

The main reason to invade afgahnistan wasn't to capture bin ladin, it was to end the Taliban support of AQ and close the training camps regardless of what the press told you the reason was. We removed AQ's main training ground and state sponser and hopefully have removed them from the drug trade significantly enough to reduce their funding levels.

Even with the leadership in place if AQ doesn't have training camps and can't obtain and use funds then they are severely limited outside their base countries, it's called resource starving and it's a prime tennet of war.
Click to expand...

I know what it's called, and I'm not arguing that what we're doing isn't helping. All I'm saying is that in this country when someone kills people, we usually try to bring them to justice. That still hasn't happened yet, despite Bush's initial promise on 9/11. I'm not saying our efforts in Afghanistan weren't useful, but bin Laden is still out there instead of rotting in an American prison (where I'm sure the other inmates will just love him) where he belongs.
 
They haven't caught him for the same reson they won't let saddam call the current and past administrations as a witness.
 
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: rahvin
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Also, the keen observer will note that we still haven't brought bin Laden to justice, a main reason we invaded Afghanistan in the first place. And I know, I know, he's been "marginalized" and he's "on the run", but that's not how our justice system works. There is still work left to do before 9/11 has been made up for.
Click to expand...

The main reason to invade afgahnistan wasn't to capture bin ladin, it was to end the Taliban support of AQ and close the training camps regardless of what the press told you the reason was. We removed AQ's main training ground and state sponser and hopefully have removed them from the drug trade significantly enough to reduce their funding levels.

Even with the leadership in place if AQ doesn't have training camps and can't obtain and use funds then they are severely limited outside their base countries, it's called resource starving and it's a prime tennet of war.
Click to expand...

I know what it's called, and I'm not arguing that what we're doing isn't helping. All I'm saying is that in this country when someone kills people, we usually try to bring them to justice. That still hasn't happened yet, despite Bush's initial promise on 9/11. I'm not saying our efforts in Afghanistan weren't useful, but bin Laden is still out there instead of rotting in an American prison (where I'm sure the other inmates will just love him) where he belongs.
Click to expand...
There's this thing in the US called the FBI's 10 most wanted list. It's a list of people who have commited crimes and haven't yet been apprehended. Some go 10 or 20 years before being brought to justice, and many of them are right here in this country. OBL is in a foreign country that we can't even go into, hiding.

We are still trying to bring him to justice. Either someday he will be aprehended and he can rot in a US prison, or we won't and he'll rot in some dank cave. So long as he rots, I really don't care.
 
Originally posted by: rahvin
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Also, the keen observer will note that we still haven't brought bin Laden to justice, a main reason we invaded Afghanistan in the first place. And I know, I know, he's been "marginalized" and he's "on the run", but that's not how our justice system works. There is still work left to do before 9/11 has been made up for.
Click to expand...

The main reason to invade afgahnistan wasn't to capture bin ladin, it was to end the Taliban support of AQ and close the training camps regardless of what the press told you the reason was. We removed AQ's main training ground and state sponser and hopefully have removed them from the drug trade significantly enough to reduce their funding levels.

Even with the leadership in place if AQ doesn't have training camps and can't obtain and use funds then they are severely limited outside their base countries, it's called resource starving and it's a prime tennet of war.
Click to expand...

What? IIRC, it was the Taliban that got rid of all the opium production, and since we have invaded, opium production is back at record levels.
 
I wouldn't call Afghanistan a success or a failure at this point. I think it's not getting as much attnetion as maybe it should, but I certainly still have a fair bit of hope regarding the eventual outcome there.

As far as 'how many people before tehy start getting in each others way'... umm... they aren't looking for the guy in a football stadium, I don't think 18 000 people in Afghanistan are 'in each others way'.
 
Originally posted by: bamacre
What? IIRC, it was the Taliban that got rid of all the opium production, and since we have invaded, opium production is back at record levels.
Click to expand...

Ended opium production? What are you smoking? The Taliban reduced production slightly to satisfy western demands to lower production while AQ and the Taliban cronies siphoned money off the top. Estimates are in the range of 20-30 million a year from the heroin trade was going directly to AQ. Their token efforts to reduce production were just lip service to the west.

Under Taliban rule Afgahnistan fell from the number one producer of poppies to the number two producer, but the production didn't fall that much.
 
Originally posted by: rahvin
Originally posted by: bamacre
What? IIRC, it was the Taliban that got rid of all the opium production, and since we have invaded, opium production is back at record levels.
Click to expand...

Ended opium production? What are you smoking? The Taliban reduced production slightly to satisfy western demands to lower production while AQ and the Taliban cronies siphoned money off the top. Estimates are in the range of 20-30 million a year from the heroin trade was going directly to AQ. Their token efforts to reduce production were just lip service to the west.

Under Taliban rule Afgahnistan fell from the number one producer of poppies to the number two producer, but the production didn't fall that much.
Click to expand...


Well, from what I see they are now back to being #1.

You have any links to back up the rest of your claim (sounds probable, I just remember hearing differently).
 
Originally posted by: irwincur
Oh sorry, no bad news to report, that is what happened. Succcess is never rewarded.
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That is some awesome detergent they have used on you... Is it Calgon?


Where do I buy some brainwashing detergent as good as that?
 
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: rahvin
Originally posted by: bamacre
What? IIRC, it was the Taliban that got rid of all the opium production, and since we have invaded, opium production is back at record levels.
Click to expand...

Ended opium production? What are you smoking? The Taliban reduced production slightly to satisfy western demands to lower production while AQ and the Taliban cronies siphoned money off the top. Estimates are in the range of 20-30 million a year from the heroin trade was going directly to AQ. Their token efforts to reduce production were just lip service to the west.

Under Taliban rule Afgahnistan fell from the number one producer of poppies to the number two producer, but the production didn't fall that much.
Click to expand...


Well, from what I see they are now back to being #1.

You have any links to back up the rest of your claim (sounds probable, I just remember hearing differently).
Click to expand...
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c...ronicle/archive/2001/10/04/MN67246.DTL

An interesting note from the article (the article is from 2001):

U.S. PAID TALIBAN TO FIGHT DRUGS
To date, such efforts have had mixed success. For example, the United States gave $43 million to the Taliban this year to support drug eradication in return for a Taliban pledge to eliminate Afghanistan's massive opium crop.

U.N observers say the Taliban followed through on their pledge by virtually wiping out opium production in the parts of Afghanistan they control. But U.S. officials say the ban had little effect on trafficking because the Taliban didn't eliminate big opium stockpiles from previous years or stop traffickers.

At a briefing for the House Government Reform subcommittee on drugs yesterday, U.S. drug officials said the Taliban now appear to be dumping those stockpiles on the market, and the price of heroin in Europe dropped from $746 a kilogram to $95 immediately after the U.S. terror attacks.

The subcommittee's chairman, Mark Souder, R-Ind., called the Taliban's opium cultivation prohibition "a coldly calculated ploy to control the world market price for their opium and heroin."
Click to expand...
 
Greetings:This is the Secretary of War at the State Department
of the United States
We have a problem.
Haliburton and Bechtel want something done about this sluggish
world economic situation
Profits have been running a little thin lately
and we need to stimulate some growth
Now we know
there's an alarmingly high number of young people roaming
around in your country with nothing to do but stir up trouble
for the police and damage private property.
It doesn't look like they'll ever get a job
It's about time we did something constructive with these people
We've got thousands of 'em here too. They're crawling all over
Haliburton and Bechtel think it's time we all sit down, have a serious get-together-
And start another war
The President?
He loves the idea! All those missiles streaming overhead to and fro
Napalm
People running down the road, skin on fire
The Russians seem up for it with Chechnya:
The Kremlin's been itching for the real thing for years.
Hell, Afghanistan's no fun
So whadya say?
We don't even have to win this war.
We just want to cut down on some of this excess population
Now look. Just start up a draft; draft as many of those people as you can.
We'll call up every last youngster we can get our hands on,
hand 'em some speed, give 'em an hour or two to learn how to use
an automatic rifle and send 'em on their way
Iran? Syria? How 'bout Iraq?
Or a "moderately repressive regime" in South America like Venuzaula?
We'll just cook up a good terrorist threat story
in the Middle East-we need that oil
We had Saddam all ready to go and his WMD
didn't even show up. I tell ya
That man is unreliable.
The Kremlin had their fingers on the button just like we did for that one
Now just think for a minute-We can make this war so big-so BIG
The more people we kill in this war, the more the economy will prosper
We can get rid of practically everybody on your dole queue if we plan this right.
Take every loafer on welfare right off our computer rolls
Now don't worry about demonstrations-just pump up your drug supply.
So many people can hook themselves on our cheap afgani heroin
and amphetamines, it's just like Vietnam.
We had everybody so busy with LSD they never got too strong.
Kept the war functioning just fine
It's easy.
We've got our college kids so interested in beer
they don't even care if we start manufacturing germ bombs again.
Put a nuclear stockpile in their back yard,
they wouldn't even know what it looked like
So how 'bout it? Look-War is money.
The arms manufacturers tell me unless
we get our bomb factories up to full production
the whole economy is going to collapse
The Brits are in the same boat.
We all agree the time has come for the big one, so whadya say?!?
That's excellent. We knew you'd agree
Haliburton and Bechtel will be very pleased.


Edited for 2005
 
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c...ronicle/archive/2001/10/04/MN67246.DTL

An interesting note from the article (the article is from 2001):

U.S. PAID TALIBAN TO FIGHT DRUGS
To date, such efforts have had mixed success. For example, the United States gave $43 million to the Taliban this year to support drug eradication in return for a Taliban pledge to eliminate Afghanistan's massive opium crop.

U.N observers say the Taliban followed through on their pledge by virtually wiping out opium production in the parts of Afghanistan they control. But U.S. officials say the ban had little effect on trafficking because the Taliban didn't eliminate big opium stockpiles from previous years or stop traffickers.

At a briefing for the House Government Reform subcommittee on drugs yesterday, U.S. drug officials said the Taliban now appear to be dumping those stockpiles on the market, and the price of heroin in Europe dropped from $746 a kilogram to $95 immediately after the U.S. terror attacks.

The subcommittee's chairman, Mark Souder, R-Ind., called the Taliban's opium cultivation prohibition "a coldly calculated ploy to control the world market price for their opium and heroin."
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Close to what I remember but afterwards they were saying that the year they torched the fields they didn't even torch them all, something like 5% were destroyed and the press and outside verification were only allowed on the 5%. AQ had control of the heroin trade, they were siphoning millions off and using it to train all the millitants. Personally I dont' care if Afgahnistan produces poppies, drugs should be legal anyway, what I care about is that AQ isn't siphoning money off the drug trade and using it to fund their operations.
 
Look at pictures of Afghanistan.
It is a sixth world country.

There is nothing to gain from it. You can thank Russia for that.
 
Originally posted by: rahvin
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c...ronicle/archive/2001/10/04/MN67246.DTL

An interesting note from the article (the article is from 2001):

U.S. PAID TALIBAN TO FIGHT DRUGS
To date, such efforts have had mixed success. For example, the United States gave $43 million to the Taliban this year to support drug eradication in return for a Taliban pledge to eliminate Afghanistan's massive opium crop.

U.N observers say the Taliban followed through on their pledge by virtually wiping out opium production in the parts of Afghanistan they control. But U.S. officials say the ban had little effect on trafficking because the Taliban didn't eliminate big opium stockpiles from previous years or stop traffickers.

At a briefing for the House Government Reform subcommittee on drugs yesterday, U.S. drug officials said the Taliban now appear to be dumping those stockpiles on the market, and the price of heroin in Europe dropped from $746 a kilogram to $95 immediately after the U.S. terror attacks.

The subcommittee's chairman, Mark Souder, R-Ind., called the Taliban's opium cultivation prohibition "a coldly calculated ploy to control the world market price for their opium and heroin."
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Close to what I remember but afterwards they were saying that the year they torched the fields they didn't even torch them all, something like 5% were destroyed and the press and outside verification were only allowed on the 5%. AQ had control of the heroin trade, they were siphoning millions off and using it to train all the millitants. Personally I dont' care if Afgahnistan produces poppies, drugs should be legal anyway, what I care about is that AQ isn't siphoning money off the drug trade and using it to fund their operations.
Click to expand...
I'd read rumors of such things (only torching a small amount of fields for a dog & pony show to the US) but nothing ever verified. I wouldn't put it past them though. They surely used profits from poppy fields to fuel there goals. I mean, you can only make so much money exporting goats and onions (which, iirc, are their other two chief exports).

I think the Taliban took the drug money and made a show of it as an appeasement method. They didn't really want the US cash but taking it and making a token eradication effort would keep the US off of their backs. Unfortunately they didn't realize that they were harboring a twisted twit that would bring the US right down on top of them anyway.
 
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