What Grade would you give the Gipper

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: BushBasha

I will admit that I had the wrong 1st lady, so I can now understand your inability to understand my previous post I meant Eleanor Roosevelt, not Lady B. If you go back to my original response and replace Lady with Eleanor Roosevelt, it will all make much more sense.

[edit]

Mrs. Clinton wrote about her imaginary conversations with Eleanor Roosevelt in her June 10 syndicated column. She said she talked to Roosevelt about the role of a first lady.

"She usually responds by telling me to buck up, or at least to grow skin as thick as a rhinoceros," Mrs. Clinton wrote.

That reads like a lighthearted description of a daydream, not a description of a real "conversation." I remember some tabloid silliness about Hilary having seances, but I don't recall it ever being printed anywhere even moderately credible.

In any event, it has NOTHING to do with this topic, and this just seems like dissembling on your part.

 

[Deudalus]

Originally posted by: outriding

Originally posted by: Deudalus

The sky is blue is a fact.

Trickle down economics is a fact. is not a fact it is a theory and has not been proven to work.

"When the rich stop getting richer the poor will stop eating."

WTF does that mean. Because the rich are not getting richer the earth will stop growing food and due to supply and demand the poor will not be able to afford food.

How old are you?

Just turned 26.

The current tax codes give us near complete tax exemption based on what we do because in our business we provide a gaggle of jobs. Thus they want us to keep working. Because when we complete more projects and make more investments, we create more jobs.

Thus the rich getting richer creates more and more jobs for the middle and lower class.

When the rich get richer, it isn't because they left their cash sitting in the bank and earned 3% interest on it. It is because they started a new company or made some other major investment which panned out and produced jobs.

Once you realize this fact, we can continue on to simple freakin economics 102 and cover outsourcing, unions, and other stuff that might make your melon tingle.

It still does not get by the fact that it is a THEORY !!!

I just passed econ170 btw last fall.

Of course its just theory, so is everything in economics and science. That doesn't mean that none of them are true.

All I'm saying is in my line of work trickle down economics applies directly to our business and if it weren't for trickle down economics we would have quit working a long time ago.

 

[BushBasha]

Originally posted by: DonVito
In any event, it has NOTHING to do with this topic, and this just seems like dissembling on your part.

...but I don't recall it ever being printed anywhere even moderately credible.

Well, it does...sort of. It was in response to Conjur's:

"...despite his weaknesses (Alzheimer's and the desire to seek astrological advice)."

After he presupposed that 'astrological advice' is a weakness, I merely asked his thoughts about the Democratic frontrunner and her talking to dead people.

As far as a 'credible source,' she herself wrote about her "sessions," as did quite a few of the major media outlets; I believe I read it on CNN when it broke...will search for something now.

[edit] It seems our which doctor who lead the sessions is a self-proclaimed 'Shaman'

Hillary Clinton says imaginary talks just 'intellectual exercise', The Providence Journal Bulletin, Tuesday, 6/25/96, p. A3.

"Hillary Rodham Clinton said yesterday her imaginary conversations with Eleanor Roosevelt were merely an 'intellectual exercise' ... Trying to douse what she called 'sensational' speculation, the first lady rejected inferences that psychic researcher Jean Houston, who led her in several White House sessions, was her 'spiritual adviser'."

Houston aided Hillary to get into the properly advanced state of "Altered Consciousness"
so she could contact Eleanor Roosevelt.

http://www.lightworks.com/LightsOnline/Jean Houston/index.html

At this site, Jean Houston proves to be purely a flaming New Age Adherent. She offers Astrology, her own New Age Online Magazine, called 'The Monthly Aspectarian', Astro Weather, and hyperlinks to other New Age Sites. I clicked on the June, 1996, issue of The Monthly Aspectarian and discovered some very revealing articles:

 

[Deudalus]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: outriding
It still does not get by the fact that it is a THEORY !!!

I just passed econ170 btw last fall.

Gravity, evolution, and global warming are all just theories as well. What say you to that?

And while we're all happy for your passing grade in freshman econ, I think you should know that some of us have econ degrees and/or work professionally in economics/finance.


Contrary to the popular liberal myth, the "rich" do not swim in their money like Scrooge McDuck. They reinvest it. And that reinvestment creates jobs. In a way, they do not have this wealth in the sense that most of us have our mutual funds and savings accounts, but they have stewardship of this wealth. This system is known as capitalism, which has 2 very interesting tenets. First, it is democratic and meritocratic. Second, it places all wealth at permanent risk. Wealth once earned must be constantly reinvested and exposed to risk. This lack of safety is what drives so many of the rich who inherited their money (as opposed to self-made) to be liberal socialists.

That's about as well as you can state it I think.

 

[outriding]

Originally posted by: Deudalus

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: outriding
It still does not get by the fact that it is a THEORY !!!

I just passed econ170 btw last fall.

Gravity, evolution, and global warming are all just theories as well. What say you to that?

And while we're all happy for your passing grade in freshman econ, I think you should know that some of us have econ degrees and/or work professionally in economics/finance.


Contrary to the popular liberal myth, the "rich" do not swim in their money like Scrooge McDuck. They reinvest it. And that reinvestment creates jobs. In a way, they do not have this wealth in the sense that most of us have our mutual funds and savings accounts, but they have stewardship of this wealth. This system is known as capitalism, which has 2 very interesting tenets. First, it is democratic and meritocratic. Second, it places all wealth at permanent risk. Wealth once earned must be constantly reinvested and exposed to risk. This lack of safety is what drives so many of the rich who inherited their money (as opposed to self-made) to be liberal socialists.

That's about as well as you can state it I think.

Well it does go both ways.

If you give tax breaks to the middle and lower class. Then they are able to buy more goods and services thus creating more jobs and etc...

I understand the the idea of the rich reinvesting but I have really two problems with that.

1) They have to invest 100% of the tax breaks.

2) With the US running on a trade defict where exactly are they going to invest. Currently my 401k options are doing better in funds outside of the US right now. If majority of the funds are doing better overseas what is going to stop the rich from investing thier money overseas?

 

[outriding]

Originally posted by: BushBasha

Originally posted by: outriding
F

He was not physically to be the president.

What does that mean? He was not phsically to be...?

If you read Nancy's book you will see she ran the 2nd term and how she consulted with the stars to lead her life.

Ahhh, yes; the old MoveOn.org 'puppet master' argument we see with Dubya and Dick. Yea, we all know Dick is running the White House, just like Nancy, just like blah blah blah blah blah. Do you know how dumb you guys sound? "ONLY DEMOCRATIC MEN run the White House!"

High interest rates.

Are you F**** kidding me? Look at Carter's rates, Einstein, then report back to us...

Iran/Contra

Yea, I would rather have some guy shove cigars up interns while America is attacked no less than 8 times than to have someone do whatever it took to get Americans back home....something Carter was never able to do.

"Star Wars" project had 70ish percent of the money spent on that project went towards management and nothing came out of the star wars project.

Again, you show your ignorance; Star Wars is what made the Russians blink and they finally realized that they could not keep up with us and our military spending with a closed economy...oh, wait, it was Carter who won the Cold War, right?

1) Did you read Nancy's book?
2) Reagan could not tell reality from fiction and this took place even before he was president.

In the 1980 presidential campaign, Ronald Reagan repeatedly told a heartbreaking story of
a World War II bomber pilot who ordered his crew to bail out after his plane had been
seriously damaged by an enemy hit. His young belly gunner was wounded so seriously that he
was unable to evacuate the bomber. Reagan could barely hold back his tears as he uttered
the pilot's heroic response: "Never mind. We'll ride it down together." ...this story was
an almost exact duplicate of a scene in the 1944 film "A Wing and a Prayer." Reagan had
apparently retained the facts but forgotten their source (Schacter 1996, 287).

The book is here

3) Look at what Cater inherited if you want to see what he was up against.

4) Trading weapons for hostages is against US policy. However having an affair on you wife is not.

5) The russians at the time were way ahead of us in the space race. If is was not for the russians we would not have the advance water recycling that we have now. and that is just one example. Do you know how much money went into finding a pen that would work in space ? about 1 million. do you know what the russians did ? they use a pencil. They did not blink they just ran out of money.

 

[Deudalus]

) The russians at the time were way ahead of us in the space race. If is was not for the russians we would not have the advance water recycling that we have now. and that is just one example. Do you know how much money went into finding a pen that would work in space ? about 1 million. do you know what the russians did ? they use a pencil. They did not blink they just ran out of money.

They really weren't. At the beginning of the space race they put the first man in space because they were willing to take the risk of killing "comrades" until they figured it out, which we were not willing to do.

Increased military spending led to the a whole lot of the technology we have today though, and is a big reason why we have the strongest economy in the world.

 

[Harvey]

Iran-Contra, Ollie North, John Poindexter and his wife's astrologer make him a weak D-.

 

[jimkyser]

Originally posted by: outriding

In the 1980 presidential campaign, Ronald Reagan repeatedly told a heartbreaking story of
a World War II bomber pilot who ordered his crew to bail out after his plane had been
seriously damaged by an enemy hit. His young belly gunner was wounded so seriously that he
was unable to evacuate the bomber. Reagan could barely hold back his tears as he uttered
the pilot's heroic response: "Never mind. We'll ride it down together." ...this story was
an almost exact duplicate of a scene in the 1944 film "A Wing and a Prayer." Reagan had
apparently retained the facts but forgotten their source (Schacter 1996, 287).

He also recounted to the Prime Minister of Israel the story of how terrible it was when he liberated a concentration camp during WWII. Of course this was also a memory from a movie he was in and not from reality.

March 5, 1984: A Washington Post story reveals that, in a conversation with Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin, Ronald Reagan claimed that he himself helped liberate imprisoned Jews from a Nazi concentration camp, then repeated the tale several months later to Nazi hunter Simon Wiesenthal. The truth is that Reagan never served overseas during World War II, but served his duty in Hollywood making training films for the Army. Unless Reagan just out-and-out lied to Rabin and Wiesenthal, he has mixed up moments from films he either acted in or saw with reality. Stories of this and other fabulously untrue claims by Reagan either sink from sight in the American press, or are treated gently, without criticism. (Washington Post/Paul Waldman)

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Deudalus
Here let me put it into a children's story and make it very simpe for you. Hypothetically:

Once upon a time Outriding starts a company in a place called La La Land. This company is web based and is Super Happy Fun and Cheap Computer Parts (SHFCCP). Over time www.superhappycheapcomputerparts.com takes off and begins to compete with Mwave and Newegg for the top online computer hardware and software store.

SHFCCP begins to spread out and is selling more and more products from more and more companies. From DFI motherboards, Altec Lansing speakers, and AMD processors; everyone wants their products to be available at SHFCCP's online store.

This makes Outriding very happy and also very rich. His low prices on his wares compel Newegg and Mwave to also lower their prices which allows more and more consumers to afford these products due to the increased competition between the stores. This, in turn, means more demands for products from the companies such as AMD, Logitech, and ATI to make these products which leads to their expanding production levels opening up new warehouses, new manufacturing sites, and of course more employees to work at these sites.

All these new items being bought means someone has to ship them. This means UPS and FedEx needs more employees to ship all of these new purchases throughout La La Land.

Overtime Outriding decides to expand his site and services even more and begins to sell home audio, car audio, and other types of electroncis. Due to his former store being so consumer friendly and highly recommended, the new store also does very well for itself making Outriding even richer.

But the evil government of La La Land decides that Outriding and his stores are making far too much money. They begin to tax him at a far higher rate just as Outriding was considering expanding again to sell office desks, furniture, and other types of office needed stationary. Thus Outriding decides that he already has enough money and making more just means he would be taxed more, so what indeed is the point?

Thus, those thousands more jobs from the online store itself down to the product manufacturers and distributers are not created and the business goes flat where it should have continued to expand.


The End

Thats a nice fictional piece of imagery, to bad its basis in realityis a bit sketchy.



the economy grew perfectly well through the 50's and 60's despite far higher taxes on the rich. what should we credit for this?

 

[Deudalus]

the economy grew perfectly well through the 50's and 60's despite far higher taxes on the rich. what should we credit for this?

Blind ass luck?

 

[jimkyser]

Originally posted by: Deudalus

the economy grew perfectly well through the 50's and 60's despite far higher taxes on the rich. what should we credit for this?

Blind ass luck?

Actaully, the period of Ike's presidency, 1952-1960, is generally characterized by the term 'stagflation'. Ie. inflation with stagnant growth.

By the way, I'm not a fan of trickle-down economics, just wanted to set the record straight.

 

[outriding]

Originally posted by: Deudalus

) The russians at the time were way ahead of us in the space race. If is was not for the russians we would not have the advance water recycling that we have now. and that is just one example. Do you know how much money went into finding a pen that would work in space ? about 1 million. do you know what the russians did ? they use a pencil. They did not blink they just ran out of money.

They really weren't. At the beginning of the space race they put the first man in space because they were willing to take the risk of killing "comrades" until they figured it out, which we were not willing to do.

Increased military spending led to the a whole lot of the technology we have today though, and is a big reason why we have the strongest economy in the world.

You are right but I failed to mention I was talking about during the 80's

1) alot of that technology is not availible to the taxpayers.
2) the technology that is availible other companys are making a profit on the taxpayers paid the R&D for.
3) we paid for all the military might with a huge defict.

 

[imported_Condor]

He cleaned up the hostage mess Carter left.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Condor
He cleaned up the hostage mess Carter left.

That is a plus.

Of course, the accompanying downside is that he did so by promising to sell Iran arms through Israel, which he did immediately after the hostages' release (52 minutes after his inauguration!), on the contingency that Iran not release them until AFTER he took office.

As such, he actually delayed their release, rather than accelerating it, and started his long pattern of illegal arms sales to our enemies even before taking office.

But yeah, he did get the hostages back, so I'll wave a miniature American flag in his memory.

 

[Tommunist]

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: Condor
He cleaned up the hostage mess Carter left.

That is a plus.

Of course, the accompanying downside is that he did so by promising to sell Iran arms through Israel, which he did immediately after the hostages' release (52 minutes after his inauguration!), on the contingency that Iran not release them until AFTER he took office.

As such, he actually delayed their release, rather than accelerating it, and started his long pattern of illegal arms sales to our enemies even before taking office.

But yeah, he did get the hostages back, so I'll wave a miniature American flag in his memory.

:laugh:

 

[daveymark]

I give him an A, due to the fact that Reaganomics worked out so well (at least unitl Clinton's effects were felt)

 

[Tom]

He was a good leader, so I give him a D for leading us backwards so effectively.

 

[Tab]

I'll give him a C some of things he did were downright wrong, but it seems he was a puppet during his 2nd term. You don't just suddenly get severe alzhemers once you leave office.

 

[Sysbuilder05]

Ah lets see...
Tinkle down economics which put nearly as many out of work as in the Great Depression.
Union busting,wage concessions.
Lowered the tax rate for the filthy rich RAISED it for most in the working class--basically it was a flat tax foisted upon Americans in 1986.
Sent Rumsfeld to Iraq to shake hands with SH and take an order for WMD to use on Iranians.
Hired James Watt
Never died his hair Jet black--wink,wink

Hell...Bush's Dad was a dream after this guy finally left in 1988.