What GPGPU applications are available to ATI users?

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TurtleCrusher

TurtleCrusher

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Apr 20, 2008
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I was thinking about this. I remember there being reviews on Anandtech for GPGPU applications comparing ATI to nVidia.

What applications can I get for my 4830?

Locked due to an invasion of toddlers posing as technology enthusiasts.

-ViRGE
 
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grimpr

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Aug 21, 2007
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Scali said:
So that would be Flash 10.1 (not released yet), Cyberlink MediaShow Espresso, ArcSoft SimHD, Folding@Home and the ATi Froblins demo....
Click to expand...

Instead of sarcastically commenting AMDs poor effort on GPU Computing, you should pray for AMDs Fusion chips and their program (OpenCL/DirectCompute) ecosystem to flourish and succeed, it will hugely benefit Nvidia for the hard days to come ahead...
 
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alyarb

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What GPGPU programs do you need right now? What did you have in mind?
 
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Scali

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alyarb said:
What GPGPU programs do you need right now? What did you have in mind?
Click to expand...

I'm a developer. The main things I want right now are:
1) OpenCL runtime for every Radeon user, rather than for developers only.
2) A GPU-accelerated physics library as an alternative to nVidia's PhysX.
 
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T2k

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Feb 24, 2004
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Scali said:
I'm a developer. The main things I want right now are:
1) OpenCL runtime for every Radeon user, rather than for developers only.
Click to expand...

Well, the SDK is a free-access download for anybody: http://developer.amd.com/gpu/ATIStreamSDK/Pages/default.aspx#five

2) A GPU-accelerated physics library as an alternative to nVidia's PhysX.
Click to expand...

PhysX is pretty far from having an impact, most devs only use it because of the cash incentive NV packs it with - seeing how much money NV blew on it and how little it got out of it I don't think it'll be the other IHV to establish a new, open standard...^_^
 
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T2k

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Feb 24, 2004
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Scali said:
RC stands for Release Candidate.
So, available yes (it has been available long before that too, as a public beta), but not an official release yet.
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Yes, RC, which means they think it's ready for release.

BTW anything is posted on Adobe Labs is official, of course. ;)
 
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Scali

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T2k said:
Care to elaborate? AFAIK they never promised anything more so far...
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AMD has made a lot of promises regarding GPGPU, promoting OpenCL as an alternative to Cuda. They have also originally promised us GPU-accelerated Havok... and when that fell through, they pushed Bullet Physics forward... but again, nothing has come out of that.
AMD has been promoting GPU-accelerated physics since the Radeon X1800!
http://techreport.com/discussions.x/10117
 
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Scali

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T2k said:
Well, the SDK is a free-access download for anybody: http://developer.amd.com/gpu/ATIStreamSDK/Pages/default.aspx#five
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So if I release an OpenCL application today, you think it's acceptable that I point the end-users to download the Stream SDK (I don't think it's legal to bundle it in the installer myself, not that I would want to, considering the size), in order to get my application running?
I think that's ridiculous. They shouldn't need to know anything about it, it should just come with the display drivers as standard... nVidia has bundled OpenCL with their drivers since November.

T2k said:
PhysX is pretty far from having an impact, most devs only use it because of the cash incentive NV packs it with - seeing how much money NV blew on it and how little it got out of it I don't think it'll be the other IHV to establish a new, open standard...^_^
Click to expand...

I want to use GPU-accelerated physics because it allows me to deliver a more immersive gaming experience to the end-user. I don't care if that's PhysX, Havok, Bullet or something else... but currently there just is no option for ATi period. Despite ATi's promises year after year.
 
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Scali

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T2k said:
Yes, RC, which means they think it's ready for release.
Click to expand...

They think it MIGHT be ready for release... but there could be another 2 or 3 RCs before it's final.

T2k said:
BTW anything is posted on Adobe Labs is official, of course. ;)
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An RC is a public preview.
It's not guaranteed to be compatible with the final release, and an RC won't be offered as an automatic update, so most end-users will never even install it on their system.
It's official when it's no longer an RC, but the actual release, and available through online updates.
 
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grimpr

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Aug 21, 2007
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Come on now Scali, you know better than all of us that AMDs OpenCL kit is under heavy development with many bugs and ommisions to track through, it was a complete pos when it first appeared but gradually stabilizing, there are plenty of opencl dev blogs around the net who testify that both AMDs and NVs OpenCL kits are in reality immature, why hurry pushing down to the mainstream when theres a lot more work to be done? Give it another 6-8 months to shape up.
 
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Scali

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grimpr said:
Come on now Scali, you know better than all of us that AMDs OpenCL kit is under heavy development with many bugs and ommisions to track through, it was a complete pos when it first appeared but gradually stabilizing, there are plenty of opencl dev blogs around the net who testify that both AMDs and NVs OpenCL kits are in reality immature, why hurry pushing down to the mainstream when theres a lot more work to be done? Give it another 6-8 months to shape up.
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Rubbish.
AMD's OpenGL 4.0 is very immature aswell, and has various bugs (you read the dev blogs, you should know, right?). That didn't stop them from putting it in the official drivers either.
If you want it to be mature, release it to the world.
nVidia has released it, what's AMD waiting for?
It's all the more ridiculous that AMD was lambasting nVidia for their proprietary Cuda standard, and tried to brainwash people into thinking that nVidia wasn't going to support OpenCL.
If AMD wants to be the champion of open standards, they're about 8 months late with supporting OpenCL.

And you know what the irony is? nVidia doesn't even *need* OpenCL, since pretty much all GPGPU applications available support Cuda anyway. AMD needs OpenCL because most developers wouldn't touch the Stream SDK with a ten foot pole.
 
GaiaHunter

GaiaHunter

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Jul 13, 2008
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Scali said:
I'm a developer. The main things I want right now are:
1) OpenCL runtime for every Radeon user, rather than for developers only.
2) A GPU-accelerated physics library as an alternative to nVidia's PhysX.
Click to expand...

And what of these aspects are consumer applications and not developer applications?

Maybe you should apply for the AMD Fusion Fund http://sites.amd.com/us/fusion/apu/pages/fusionfund.aspx .
 
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Scali

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GaiaHunter said:
And what of these aspects are consumer applications and not developer applications?
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I said I'm a developer.
Let me explain it to you: If us developers are hindered in developing and deploying OpenCL applications, you consumers aren't getting applications.
You think it's entirely coincidence that a major company like Adobe chooses Cuda for GPGPU-acceleration, rather than OpenCL?

GaiaHunter said:
Maybe you should apply for the AMD Fusion Fund http://sites.amd.com/us/fusion/apu/pages/fusionfund.aspx .
Click to expand...

I don't believe in Fusion. A combination of a sub-par CPU and a sub-par GPU on a single die, how amazing!
 
GaiaHunter

GaiaHunter

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Jul 13, 2008
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Scali said:
I said I'm a developer.
Let me explain it to you: If us developers are hindered in developing and deploying OpenCL applications, you consumers aren't getting applications.
You think it's entirely coincidence that a major company like Adobe chooses Cuda for GPGPU-acceleration, rather than OpenCL?
Click to expand...

You are a developer. AMD doesn't provide the tools you need - NVIDIA does. You use AMD hardware instead of NVIDIA.

Where is the logic?

You should be using NVIDIA.

Why aren't you?
 
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grimpr

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Aug 21, 2007
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Maybe you should start developing for Intels Sandy Bridge instead Scali, they will have a program like AMDs Fusion Fund but it aint gonna run OpenCL or DirectCompute.
 
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Scali

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GaiaHunter said:
You are a developer. AMD doesn't provide the tools you need - NVIDIA does. You use AMD hardware instead of NVIDIA.

Where is the logic?

You should be using NVIDIA.

Why aren't you?
Click to expand...

Because AMD deceived me.
I was using a GeForce 8800GTS with a beta version of OpenCL.
Then around November, the card died on me. Shortly after OpenCL was final and released to the end-user by nVidia.
Since nVidia didn't have any new hardware out yet, I went for a Radeon, rather than buying basically the same card again.
I figured that AMD would follow with OpenCL support shortly, since they also had a beta driver in certification with Khronos, and AMD had been promoting OpenCL wildly in the media.
I didn't expect that more than half a year later, they STILL wouldn't have their OpenCL in order.

But you're right, I should dump the Radeon and get a Fermi. I've thought about it. I just didn't think Fermi was a good enough product. But every month that passes without AMD adding OpenCL to their drivers, Fermi gets more attractive.
 
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Scali

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grimpr said:
Maybe you should start developing for Intels Sandy Bridge instead Scali, they will have a program like AMDs Fusion Fund but it aint gonna run OpenCL or DirectCompute.
Click to expand...

I'm quite sure that they will, actually. Intel supports the OpenCL standard: http://software.intel.com/en-us/blogs/2009/01/21/parallel-programming-talk-opencl-with-tim-mattson/
As for DirectCompute, technically their current IGPs should already be able to support it (albeit at CS4.0 level only). They haven't enabled it in the drivers yet, but I'd be surprised if they don't enable it on Sandy Bridge.
 
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