It's hard to use that as an argument when the only reason it is such a low percentage is that the entire bill is so mind bogglingly large. Just because these programs listed (which I'm sure are only a small representation of many, many similar outlines) account for such a low percentage of the entire bill, doesn't mean that they aren't significant amounts of money. This just makes it easier for politicians to throw money at everything they always wanted to, because they have something much bigger with which to dwarf their otherwise still outrageous spending.
In short, it's like a poor person spending $100 a week eating out because he pays $3700 a week in medical bills. Granted, he has to take out loans to pay for everything, but what is $100 compared to $3700?
So, in your estimate, how many jobs is this going to create? No doubt it will be contracted through an existing government supplier. How long will those jobs last? What will be the economic impact?
Fallacious argument. You're begging the question.
Correct, but you're missing the point to my post. I wasn't trying to argue that it is a small amount of pork. I was trying to point out that while the pork has a tendency to get people's panties tied in a knot, we really should be focusing most of our attention of the remaining 97.3% of the bill. Don't completely ignore the pork, but recognize that in terms of priorities it currently is lower on the totem poll.
Ok, I see what you did there.
I agree, and I hope a more thorough examination of the spending is done. As it is now, all I have seen are vague descriptions of spending outlays, and no real plan. I have a feeling that this is going to become another black hole.
Well, without going into detail (I did that in another thread last week), I can assure you that the real meat of this bill is going to greatly stimulate my ability to circulate dollars in this economy sooner than later. I know I am only one citizen from one household and I can't speak for anyone else, but I can assure you that there is a lot of potential here. It really boils down to the people and their decisions after the bill passes and not so much the government. The government is just trying to make the circulation of funds occur more and occur faster. The theory is that the natural flow of our economy and markets will pick it all up from there and mend things over time at a faster rate than they would have without government involvement assuming they are able to pick it back up at all without assistance.
Now, will it actually work? I cannot say for sure and no one else here can either. I hope it does and I do understand the potential it carries for success. I believe that one thing is for certain though. The bill is going to pass in one form or another.
To be perfectly honest, I find there to be potential for economic stimulus in most of the pork listed here. I think people are asking the wrong question. They are asking whether or not the pork is a complete waste of money. The answer to that one is simple and that answer is no. It is not a complete waste of money because it will most likely at least have some positive effect on the economy. That answer doesn't really help us think objectively though.
The real question is whether or not that same amount of money could be used to better stimulate the economy if invested elsewhere which is very possible after one considers some of these porkish line items and starts thinking about where else that money could be spent to stimulate things. It could be as simple as cutting the pork and adding that money to some of the more potent line items already listed.
idiotekniQues
Platinum Member
- Jan 4, 2007
- 2,572
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the republicans are obscene. they have consistently gotten us into the worst deficits but now act like the guardians of the bank.
the bill needs more work, but what the repubs are labeling as pork is just nothing more but a game - as some is pork, but so much of what they call is not - theya re just playing their word games like cheney/bush did with 9/11 and saddam. they are disgusting ilk.
good answer by obama here for one example of the bullshit republican game of labeling something one thing buta lways doing the other.
" Couric: Sen. Mitch McConnell said over the weekend that surely you're privately embarrassed by some of the product that came out of the house version and let me just mention some of the spending in this package: $6.2 billion for home weatherization, $100 million for children to learn green construction...
Obama: Lets take that example. I'm stunned that Mitch McConnell use this as an example ... We're going to weatherize homes, that immediately puts people back to work and we're going to train people who are out of work, including young people, to do the weatherization. As a consequence of weatherization, our energy bills go down and we reduce our dependence on foreign oil. What would be a more effective stimulus package than that? I mean, you're getting a threefer. Not only are you immediately putting people back to work but you're also saving families on your energy bills and you're laying the groundwork for long term energy independence. That's exactly the kind of program that we should be funding."
the bill needs more work, but what the repubs are labeling as pork is just nothing more but a game - as some is pork, but so much of what they call is not - theya re just playing their word games like cheney/bush did with 9/11 and saddam. they are disgusting ilk.
good answer by obama here for one example of the bullshit republican game of labeling something one thing buta lways doing the other.
" Couric: Sen. Mitch McConnell said over the weekend that surely you're privately embarrassed by some of the product that came out of the house version and let me just mention some of the spending in this package: $6.2 billion for home weatherization, $100 million for children to learn green construction...
Obama: Lets take that example. I'm stunned that Mitch McConnell use this as an example ... We're going to weatherize homes, that immediately puts people back to work and we're going to train people who are out of work, including young people, to do the weatherization. As a consequence of weatherization, our energy bills go down and we reduce our dependence on foreign oil. What would be a more effective stimulus package than that? I mean, you're getting a threefer. Not only are you immediately putting people back to work but you're also saving families on your energy bills and you're laying the groundwork for long term energy independence. That's exactly the kind of program that we should be funding."
This is what I like in the bill:
? $2 billion earmark to re-start FutureGen, a near-zero emissions coal power plant in Illinois that the Department of Energy defunded last year because it said the project was inefficient.
? $400 million for the Centers for Disease Control to screen and prevent STD's.
? $1.4 billion for rural waste disposal programs.
? $75 million for "smoking cessation activities.
? $75 million for salaries of employees at the FBI.
? $25 million for tribal alcohol and substance abuse reduction.
? $500 million for state and local fire stations.
? $88 million for renovating the headquarters of the Public Health Service.
? $412 million for CDC buildings and property.
? $500 million for building and repairing National Institutes of Health facilities in Bethesda, Maryland.
? $5.5 million for "energy efficiency initiatives" at the Department of Veterans Affairs National Cemetery Administration.
? $110 million to the Farm Service Agency to upgrade computer systems.
? $200 million in funding for the lease of alternative energy vehicles for use on military installations.
Any dollar spent on making us healthier or developing cleaner, alternative energy is money well spent in my opinion because it will help us in the longer run as well as the short run.
? $2 billion earmark to re-start FutureGen, a near-zero emissions coal power plant in Illinois that the Department of Energy defunded last year because it said the project was inefficient.
? $400 million for the Centers for Disease Control to screen and prevent STD's.
? $1.4 billion for rural waste disposal programs.
? $75 million for "smoking cessation activities.
? $75 million for salaries of employees at the FBI.
? $25 million for tribal alcohol and substance abuse reduction.
? $500 million for state and local fire stations.
? $88 million for renovating the headquarters of the Public Health Service.
? $412 million for CDC buildings and property.
? $500 million for building and repairing National Institutes of Health facilities in Bethesda, Maryland.
? $5.5 million for "energy efficiency initiatives" at the Department of Veterans Affairs National Cemetery Administration.
? $110 million to the Farm Service Agency to upgrade computer systems.
? $200 million in funding for the lease of alternative energy vehicles for use on military installations.
Any dollar spent on making us healthier or developing cleaner, alternative energy is money well spent in my opinion because it will help us in the longer run as well as the short run.
Computers at community colleges = good thing
Seriously, making learning at these institutions easier is one of the best investments any government can make. It's sad enough that we're the last western nation to still charge tuition at our public colleges and universities.
Buying computers for community colleges is a wise way to spend some of the stimulus bill. Seriously, education investment has a high rate of return when you're a tax collector.
Seriously, making learning at these institutions easier is one of the best investments any government can make. It's sad enough that we're the last western nation to still charge tuition at our public colleges and universities.
Buying computers for community colleges is a wise way to spend some of the stimulus bill. Seriously, education investment has a high rate of return when you're a tax collector.
Since when did computers make learning easier anyway? Does it actually help with memory retention?
Oh, and the day I am mandated to start paying for every soul to attend college is the day I stop paying taxes.
So...have we started discussing the other $875 billion dollars that this bill contains here yet? You know....the part of the bill which will actually have a true effect on this country whether that be for better or worse? Or are we still yapping like mindless drones about the pork because it is just too big of a red herring to focus on what actually matters the most right now...
In case you weren't paying attention, production of domestic autos decreased over 17% in 2008 - ditto for PCs (actually I think it was greater than that).
Further declines are projected in 2009. Now. Do you get the point?
Maybe we should just say, "To Hell with it." and move that production overseas, too, eh?
This is the Con in Voodoo Economics Tax Cuts. Incur massive debt in times of economic expansion - Proceed with unfunded military action.
The 'upside' today (if you want to call it that) is that the only significant economic activity in the United States is defense related.
It's safe to say that significant deficit spending for defense activities during times of economic expansion (see Raygun) is a recipe for Economic Fail.
Further declines are projected in 2009. Now. Do you get the point?
Maybe we should just say, "To Hell with it." and move that production overseas, too, eh?
This is the Con in Voodoo Economics Tax Cuts. Incur massive debt in times of economic expansion - Proceed with unfunded military action.
The 'upside' today (if you want to call it that) is that the only significant economic activity in the United States is defense related.
It's safe to say that significant deficit spending for defense activities during times of economic expansion (see Raygun) is a recipe for Economic Fail.
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