What Goes Around . . .(offshoring)

[charrison]

linkage

I've been in India for only a few days and I am already thinking about reincarnation. In my next life, I want to be a demagogue.

Yes, I want to be able to huff and puff about complex issues ? like outsourcing of jobs to India ? without any reference to reality. Unfortunately, in this life, I'm stuck in the body of a reporter/columnist. So when I came to the 24/7 Customer call center in Bangalore to observe hundreds of Indian young people doing service jobs via long distance ? answering the phones for U.S. firms, providing technical support for U.S. computer giants or selling credit cards for global banks ? I was prepared to denounce the whole thing. "How can it be good for America to have all these Indians doing our white-collar jobs?" I asked 24/7's founder, S. Nagarajan.

Well, he answered patiently, "look around this office." All the computers are from Compaq. The basic software is from Microsoft. The phones are from Lucent. The air-conditioning is by Carrier, and even the bottled water is by Coke, because when it comes to drinking water in India, people want a trusted brand. On top of all this, says Mr. Nagarajan, 90 percent of the shares in 24/7 are owned by U.S. investors. This explains why, although the U.S. has lost some service jobs to India, total exports from U.S. companies to India have grown from $2.5 billion in 1990 to $4.1 billion in 2002. What goes around comes around, and also benefits Americans.

Consider one of the newest products to be outsourced to India: animation. Yes, a lot of your Saturday morning cartoons are drawn by Indian animators like JadooWorks, founded three years ago here in Bangalore. India, though, did not take these basic animation jobs from Americans. For 20 years they had been outsourced by U.S. movie companies, first to Japan and then to the Philippines, Korea, Hong Kong and Taiwan. The sophisticated, and more lucrative, preproduction, finishing and marketing of the animated films, though, always remained in America. Indian animation companies took the business away from the other Asians by proving to be more adept at both the hand-drawing of characters and the digital painting of each frame by computer ? at a lower price.

 

[Bowfinger]

Two points: first, the fact these products carry American labels has nothing to do with where they are manufactured. Second, while it's nice that 24/7 is 90% owned by American investors, that's little consolation for American workers who lose their jobs. In both cases, wealthy investors gain the most while average Americans fall further and further behind. The gaps between the haves and have-nots grows ever-wider.

While I agree there is some give and take, I'm not at all convinced there's anything close to a balance.

 

[dmcowen674]

Yep, those Indian Companies are doing well alright. Any American Companies left?

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Two points: first, the fact these products carry American labels has nothing to do with where they are manufactured. Second, while it's nice that 24/7 is 90% owned by American investors, that's little consolation for American workers who lose their jobs. In both cases, wealthy investors gain the most while average Americans fall further and further behind. The gaps between the haves and have-nots grows ever-wider.

While I agree there is some give and take, I'm not at all convinced there's anything close to a balance.

well, the prob is, if we start having protectionist policies its going to hit the working class even more as prices rise... really it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

 

[mfs378]

Fantastic. Americans who lose their jobs to outsourcing will feel better knowing that their generous stock portfolios will support them.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
well, the prob is, if we start having protectionist policies its going to hit the working class even more as prices rise... really it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

I'm afraid you may be right. It's easy to see the problem. A solution is a bit harder. Perhaps the guys on the right are correct - the problem will work itself out over time. I just hope it doesn't involve lowering America's standard of living to third-world levels.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: ElFenix
well, the prob is, if we start having protectionist policies its going to hit the working class even more as prices rise... really it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

I'm afraid you may be right. It's easy to see the problem. A solution is a bit harder. Perhaps the guys on the right are correct - the problem will work itself out over time. I just hope it doesn't involve lowering America's standard of living to third-world levels.

I dont see a race to the bottoms. Wages in india and china are rising rapidly and wages here are still rising.

 

[CanOWorms]

The more helpdesk jobs that get outsourced, the better. People shouldn't view it as a viable career. It's like those striking bagboys that seem to think that being a bagboy is a viable career.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: ElFenix
well, the prob is, if we start having protectionist policies its going to hit the working class even more as prices rise... really it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

I'm afraid you may be right. It's easy to see the problem. A solution is a bit harder. Perhaps the guys on the right are correct - the problem will work itself out over time. I just hope it doesn't involve lowering America's standard of living to third-world levels.

I dont see a race to the bottoms. Wages in india and china are rising rapidly and wages here are still rising.

I hope you're right. Why do you think it stops at India and China?

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: ElFenix
well, the prob is, if we start having protectionist policies its going to hit the working class even more as prices rise... really it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

I'm afraid you may be right. It's easy to see the problem. A solution is a bit harder. Perhaps the guys on the right are correct - the problem will work itself out over time. I just hope it doesn't involve lowering America's standard of living to third-world levels.

I dont see a race to the bottoms. Wages in india and china are rising rapidly and wages here are still rising.

I hope you're right. Why do you think it stops at India and China?

It will not stop there, but India and china by far have the largest populations(close to 2billion).

 

[SuperTool]

Does Carrier make AC's in the US? My Compaq sure wasn't made in the US.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Does Carrier make AC's in the US? My Compaq sure wasn't made in the US.

Carrier has manufacturing in the US and other countries.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: ElFenix
well, the prob is, if we start having protectionist policies its going to hit the working class even more as prices rise... really it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

I'm afraid you may be right. It's easy to see the problem. A solution is a bit harder. Perhaps the guys on the right are correct - the problem will work itself out over time. I just hope it doesn't involve lowering America's standard of living to third-world levels.

hopefully as workers in china and india start raising their standard of living they'll start demanding the same sort of things that workers here and the rest of the western bloc started demanding a century ago... people who have some sort of wealth start to care more about the conditions they're under... like i said, hopefully. i would hate to see a race to the bottom

 

[SherEPunjab]

i think carrier is from texas. yeah, carrier sells a lot of ac units there. the article really has a lot of merit actually, now, a U.S. company can have 100% ownership in India, before, India had stricter policies and only allowed 49% non indian owned shares.

subway, coke, pepsi, pizza hut, dominoes, tgi fridays, radisson hotels, ford, chevrolet, Lays chips, dell computers, compaqs, hp's, they're all making a killing there, and the profits are all being funnelled back to the u.s. one of the other posters was correct in stating who would want a call center job anyway? i did it once, for four days. then i quit. it sucks. people are d*cks to you, and you're just trying to make a buck (i was in college, and i was wondering why he was paying me 7$ an hour. thats a lot of money 3 years ago). you need nerves of steel to handle some of the callers.

in any case, it goes down to one thing: WE MUST IMPROVE OUR EDUCATION. Thats it. we want the cheapest prices, and we want high paying jobs. well, how can we have high paying jobs kept in the u.s. and have cheap prices on consumer goods? what will set us apart is our education.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: ElFenix
well, the prob is, if we start having protectionist policies its going to hit the working class even more as prices rise... really it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

I'm afraid you may be right. It's easy to see the problem. A solution is a bit harder. Perhaps the guys on the right are correct - the problem will work itself out over time. I just hope it doesn't involve lowering America's standard of living to third-world levels.

hopefully as workers in china and india start raising their standard of living they'll start demanding the same sort of things that workers here and the rest of the western bloc started demanding a century ago... people who have some sort of wealth start to care more about the conditions they're under... like i said, hopefully. i would hate to see a race to the bottom

I agree... either way we are screwed unless their progression closely mirrors ours. Is there not any workable solution to that? Until they demand the same living conditions and things what do we do? We continue to lose jobs and create an economy that while wealthy, is based on the wealth of few. The drain of an unemployed mass of many would also be a huge issue, especially since pretty much anyone over 18 would be able to vote. You'd have some incredible political turmoil because of that, and a major social issue. Can't we have some protectionist issues, but make them weak enough that they just help stabilize and stem the tide rather than reverse the tide? Someone had to realize that Capitalism has its flaws, so isn't there a "plan" somewhere that addressed this problem? Surely this has happened before as other areas of the world industrialized...