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What free trade does to our society

We need to reach a consensus on what we consider important economically and understand the consequences of any action.

Case in point- Harley Davidson was falling apart back when Ron R was President. At that time it was owned by the bowling ball company AMF. The quality or lack thereof of their motorcycles were legendary with parts falling off as the bikes drove off the showroom floor. It looked like the end for the company, but Ronald had other ideas. He imposed a tariff on Japanese motorcycles to lessen the cost difference allowing HD to become more competitive. At that time we who preferred Japanese bikes were unhappy because we had to pay more without benefit. Even so, HD recovered and makes a decent bike (although not as good as my Hayabusa 😉 ).

Since we cannot compete globally with the international labor market (which I believe is the root cause of our current unemployment plight) we would need to put restrictions and tariffs in place. That would increase costs of goods but would help restart American industry. All the governmental programs combined won't change the wage difference between nations. The choice will ultimately be jobs or cheap merchandise.

Which do we want?
 
Texashiker said:
So goes the jobs, so goes the economy

http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/18/news/economy/detroit_bankruptcy/index.htm?hpt=hp_c2

Detroit is on the brink of bankruptcy.

Detroit used to have steel mills that supported thousands of jobs. All that remains now is the rust belt.

Would it be too much to ask for our factories to come back? Why does so much of our steel and auto parts have to be made overseas?

related link - http://www.terrastories.com/bearings/steel-plant
Click to expand...

Detroit has been a poorly run city for decades. Free trade or not, they were doomed for failure long ago.
 
Texashiker said:
What free trade does to our society

So goes the jobs, so goes the economy

http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/18/news/economy/detroit_bankruptcy/index.htm?hpt=hp_c2

Detroit is on the brink of bankruptcy.

Detroit used to have steel mills that supported thousands of jobs. All that remains now is the rust belt.

Would it be too much to ask for our factories to come back? Why does so much of our steel and auto parts have to be made overseas?

related link - http://www.terrastories.com/bearings/steel-plant
Click to expand...

A lot more than Detroit on the verge of bankruptcy.

Republicans are working diligently on getting wages down in this country enough and doing away with the EPA, Child Labor Laws etc to entice Corporations to bring the factories back here.
 
Hayabusa Rider said:
We need to reach a consensus on what we consider important economically and understand the consequences of any action.

Case in point- Harley Davidson was falling apart back when Ron R was President. At that time it was owned by the bowling ball company AMF. The quality or lack thereof of their motorcycles were legendary with parts falling off as the bikes drove off the showroom floor. It looked like the end for the company, but Ronald had other ideas. He imposed a tariff on Japanese motorcycles to lessen the cost difference allowing HD to become more competitive. At that time we who preferred Japanese bikes were unhappy because we had to pay more without benefit. Even so, HD recovered and makes a decent bike (although not as good as my Hayabusa 😉 ).

Since we cannot compete globally with the international labor market (which I believe is the root cause of our current unemployment plight) we would need to put restrictions and tariffs in place. That would increase costs of goods but would help restart American industry. All the governmental programs combined won't change the wage difference between nations. The choice will ultimately be jobs or cheap merchandise.

Which do we want?
Click to expand...

Except the Japanese didn't crush our auto industry because they had cheaper labor. They beat us because they were simply better.

edit: Another thing that people forget when advocating protectionism is that we can only control the US market. You can put up all the barriers you want against imports but that doesn't make our exports any more competitive on the world market.
 
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the DRIZZLE said:
Except the Japanese didn't crush our auto industry because they had cheaper labor. They beat us because they were simply better.
Click to expand...

That is true but it would be hard to go through Walmart today and point out the qualitative superiority of their cheap plastic crap from China. The problem with Detroit was the attitude of "if it's good for GM it's good for America", resulting in the all too common mentality of assuming that one is inherently correct because of their self presumed innate superiority. We have this in commerce and politics and we never learn.

That notwithstanding we are either going to get jobs back and establish the basic foundation for a sustainable economy or not.

IMO this is where government can play a positive role as a facilitator. Tax incentives can be given to promote long term hiring and business development. Neither the private sector nor the government are the enemy unless we set it up that way. We as a people need both to work for us.
 
Hayabusa Rider said:
That is true but it would be hard to go through Walmart today and point out the qualitative superiority of their cheap plastic crap from China. The problem with Detroit was the attitude of "if it's good for GM it's good for America", resulting in the all too common mentality of assuming that one is inherently correct because of their self presumed innate superiority. We have this in commerce and politics and we never learn.
Click to expand...

There's a reason Ford was the auto man. least affected by the recent industry implosion.
 
Free trade was based on the assumption criminal invaders would not take our jobs.
Also, free trade does not allow for overpaid, lazy union workers milking corporations dry. Mike Moore always forgets that part in his documentaries. You deserve a fair wage for your labor. So many people are either ridiculously overpaid or underpaid they have no idea what a fair wage for their particular job actually is.
 
We already plenty of tariffs (and quotas). On sugar for instance. Does it work? No.

We have tariffs on some imported cars. Do they work? No.

The pharmaceutical industry is protected. Does that work? No.

Did the 2002 Steel Tariff work? No.

The FDA is protectionist, does that work? No.

We have anything but free trade. NAFTA and WTO also reduce freedom of trade.
 
Anarchist420 said:
We already plenty of tariffs (and quotas). On sugar for instance. Does it work? No.

We have tariffs on some imported cars. Do they work? No.

The pharmaceutical industry is protected. Does that work? No.

Did the 2002 Steel Tariff work? No.

The FDA is protectionist, does that work? No.

We have anything but free trade. NAFTA and WTO also reduce freedom of trade.
Click to expand...

We don't have completely free trade but neither do we have a good mechanism to keep jobs here. Short of dropping the wages of Americans to Asian standards what effective and politically viable alternatives do you suggest. Becoming King doesn't count.
 
You need a car.

Company A offers a car for $20,000.
Company B offers the exact same car for $15,000.

Which do you buy?
 
Atreus21 said:
You need a car.

Company A offers a car for $20,000.
Company B offers the exact same car for $15,000.

Which do you buy?
Click to expand...

Company A provides you with a job.
Company B takes it.

There are advantages and disadvantages to any potential solution and they need to be thought out, much like health care reform ought to have been before we go regulation happy.
 
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