What, exactly, is the argument against nuclear power?

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I particularly like the small garage unit that drives your car 11,000 mile a year.

Why pay the nuclear plant for power it produces when you can produce and sell your own. There are plenty of ethical scientists who aren't Doctor Death.

Thats fantastic for the parts of the country that receive enough annual sunlight to make that work. The other tiny problem they gloss over is storage, which will requre significant advancement to make hydrogen a viable long term fuel.

Also, they left out the fact that new Gen IV HTRs (like the pebble bed concept) will be able to thermally produce hydrogen at much more efficient rates than electrolysis.

 

[miri]

Nuclear power plants alone produce 2000 tons of spent rods a year alone, and you want more nuclear power plants? These rods need long term storage, where do you suggest we put them? Your back yard? Not only that but moving these rods over any distance is dangerous, especially considering most of the nuclear powerplants are in the eastern part of the country and most of the suitable areas for longer term storage are in the western part of the country.

2000 tons of spent fuel rods a year is a lot of transporting you need to do without a accident.

We have like 50 years of spent rods that need to be moved and have not been moved yet because of debate over long term storage. 50 years of spent rods is about 200 million pounds that has not been moved yet from its temporary storage.

Can you safely transport 200 million pounds of used nuclear rods from the east coast to Nevada without a accident? And does anyone really think the residents of Nevada want 200 million pounds of nuclear wasted buried in their state?

 

[Aegeon]

Originally posted by: miri
Nuclear power plants alone produce 2000 tons of spent rods a year alone, and you want more nuclear power plants? These rods need long term storage, where do you suggest we put them? Your back yard? Not only that but moving these rods over any distance is dangerous, especially considering most of the nuclear powerplants are in the eastern part of the country and most of the suitable areas for longer term storage are in the western part of the country.

2000 tons of spent fuel rods a year is a lot of transporting you need to do without a accident.

We have like 50 years of spent rods that need to be moved and have not been moved yet because of debate over long term storage. 50 years of spent rods is about 200 million pounds that has not been moved yet from its temporary storage.

Can you safely transport 200 million pounds of used nuclear rods from the east coast to Nevada without a accident? And does anyone really think the residents of Nevada want 200 million pounds of nuclear wasted buried in their state?

The reality is if we allow nuclear reprocessing again, almost all of this potential waste gets turned into valuable fuel again. You can effectively address a large portion of this issue simply by making this change. The issues with long term storage are a concern, but not remotely as much as the current consequences for continuing to burn fossil fuels.

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: miri
Nuclear power plants alone produce 2000 tons of spent rods a year alone, and you want more nuclear power plants? These rods need long term storage, where do you suggest we put them? Your back yard? Not only that but moving these rods over any distance is dangerous, especially considering most of the nuclear powerplants are in the eastern part of the country and most of the suitable areas for longer term storage are in the western part of the country.

2000 tons of spent fuel rods a year is a lot of transporting you need to do without a accident.

We have like 50 years of spent rods that need to be moved and have not been moved yet because of debate over long term storage. 50 years of spent rods is about 200 million pounds that has not been moved yet from its temporary storage.

Can you safely transport 200 million pounds of used nuclear rods from the east coast to Nevada without a accident? And does anyone really think the residents of Nevada want 200 million pounds of nuclear wasted buried in their state?

The density of uranium is 19tons/m^3. 100 thousand tons has a volume of about 5000m^3... say 15000m^3 for good measure... or a cube with an 80-foot site... roughtly the size of a large two-family house. And that's ALL THE RODS FROM 50 YEARS!!!

So, just like Moonbeam, I have to conclude that you either don't see the value of thinking about the problem before making up your mind... or you simply cannot count.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: miri
Nuclear power plants alone produce 2000 tons of spent rods a year alone, and you want more nuclear power plants? These rods need long term storage, where do you suggest we put them? Your back yard? Not only that but moving these rods over any distance is dangerous, especially considering most of the nuclear powerplants are in the eastern part of the country and most of the suitable areas for longer term storage are in the western part of the country.

2000 tons of spent fuel rods a year is a lot of transporting you need to do without a accident.

We have like 50 years of spent rods that need to be moved and have not been moved yet because of debate over long term storage. 50 years of spent rods is about 200 million pounds that has not been moved yet from its temporary storage.

Can you safely transport 200 million pounds of used nuclear rods from the east coast to Nevada without a accident? And does anyone really think the residents of Nevada want 200 million pounds of nuclear wasted buried in their state?

The density of uranium is 19tons/m^3. 100 thousand tons has a volume of about 5000m^3... say 15000m^3 for good measure... or a cube with an 80-foot site... roughtly the size of a large two-family house. And that's ALL THE RODS FROM 50 YEARS!!!

So, just like Moonbeam, I have to conclude that you either don't see the value of thinking about the problem before making up your mind... or you simply cannot count.

A Med student going for a PhD in Oncology arguing for nuclear power!?!?!!

BIAS! :laugh:

All joking aside, you are absolutely correct, and there would be far less waste fuel if reprocessing was unbanned.

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: Acanthus
A Med student going for a PhD in Oncology arguing for nuclear power!?!?!!

BIAS! :laugh:

Hahahahahahaha.... That's a good one.

 

[Acanthus]

what happened to this thread? it just died off suddenly.

 

[Moonbeam]

Nuclear power if for the insane who would gift their children with the massive burden of managing their waste and potential ecological disasters. Insanity in this form is known a hubris.

Dictionary.com:

"Overbearing pride or presumption; arrogance: ?There is no safety in unlimited technological hubris? (McGeorge Bundy)."

Others it seems have recognized the pinheaded nature of scientists so up in their heads they have lost their human hearts, so much so in fact that they've put them in the dictionary.

The notion that man MUST walk down the path of insanity because he needs the energy is just more of the same insane. We do not HAVE to do anything of the kind. This would be like saying we must shoot ourselves in the head because of an oncoming tiger. No, we need to run up a green tree.

Instead of a path that creates potential disaster and toxins for unborn generations we need to do things that are sane. We need to begin the war for green energy. That must be done with renewable energy that doesn't create radioactive wastes and more efficient energy use. The two together will create a much better future, one we can be proud to pass down.

A genius can discover things that can be done. A wise man does what he should. It is wisdom and not scientific prowess alone that will allow us to survive. It was science, was it not, that designed ovens so effective that they burned 6 million Jews? Let us not, like the most technological civilization of its day, be governed by hubris. Your children will thank you. The world is not a play toy, it is a sacred obligation, at least if your heart is alive.

I know, I know. Toys are so fun. But don't forget, the children of the future would also like to play. Make sure they can.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Nuclear power if for the insane who would gift their children with the massive burden of managing their waste and potential ecological disasters. Insanity in this form is known a hubris.

Dictionary.com:

"Overbearing pride or presumption; arrogance: ?There is no safety in unlimited technological hubris? (McGeorge Bundy)."

Others it seems have recognized the pinheaded nature of scientists so up in their heads they have lost their human hearts, so much so in fact that they've put them in the dictionary.

The notion that man MUST walk down the path of insanity because he needs the energy is just more of the same insane. We do not HAVE to do anything of the kind. This would be like saying we must shoot ourselves in the head because of an oncoming tiger. No, we need to run up a green tree.

Instead of a path that creates potential disaster and toxins for unborn generations we need to do things that are sane. We need to begin the war for green energy. That must be done with renewable energy that doesn't create radioactive wastes and more efficient energy use. The two together will create a much better future, one we can be proud to pass down.

A genius can discover things that can be done. A wise man does what he should. It is wisdom and not scientific prowess alone that will allow us to survive. It was science, was it not, that designed ovens so effective that they burned 6 million Jews? Let us not, like the most technological civilization of its day, be governed by hubris. Your children will thank you. The world is not a play toy, it is a sacred obligation, at least if your heart is alive.

I know, I know. Toys are so fun. But don't forget, the children of the future would also like to play. Make sure they can.

Did you read what the actual volume of nuclear waste is? Even if you increased it by an order of magnitude it wouldnt be a very serious issue to properly store. On top of that, breeder reactors could reuse the vast majority of the fuel, reducing nuclear waste.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Nuclear power if for the insane who would gift their children with the massive burden of managing their waste and potential ecological disasters. Insanity in this form is known a hubris.

Dictionary.com:

"Overbearing pride or presumption; arrogance: ?There is no safety in unlimited technological hubris? (McGeorge Bundy)."

Others it seems have recognized the pinheaded nature of scientists so up in their heads they have lost their human hearts, so much so in fact that they've put them in the dictionary.


The notion that man MUST walk down the path of insanity because he needs the energy is just more of the same insane. We do not HAVE to do anything of the kind. This would be like saying we must shoot ourselves in the head because of an oncoming tiger. No, we need to run up a green tree.

Instead of a path that creates potential disaster and toxins for unborn generations we need to do things that are sane. We need to begin the war for green energy. That must be done with renewable energy that doesn't create radioactive wastes and more efficient energy use. The two together will create a much better future, one we can be proud to pass down.

A genius can discover things that can be done. A wise man does what he should. It is wisdom and not scientific prowess alone that will allow us to survive. It was science, was it not, that designed ovens so effective that they burned 6 million Jews? Let us not, like the most technological civilization of its day, be governed by hubris. Your children will thank you. The world is not a play toy, it is a sacred obligation, at least if your heart is alive.

I know, I know. Toys are so fun. But don't forget, the children of the future would also like to play. Make sure they can.

Did you read what the actual volume of nuclear waste is? Even if you increased it by an order of magnitude it wouldnt be a very serious issue to properly store. On top of that, breeder reactors could reuse the vast majority of the fuel, reducing nuclear waste.

Yes, I watched as the wand of hubris was waved over that. I was thinking what might happen if that tiny little volume of waste were sprinkled over NYC. What an elegant storage facility that would make.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Nuclear power if for the insane who would gift their children with the massive burden of managing their waste and potential ecological disasters. Insanity in this form is known a hubris.

Dictionary.com:

"Overbearing pride or presumption; arrogance: ?There is no safety in unlimited technological hubris? (McGeorge Bundy)."

Others it seems have recognized the pinheaded nature of scientists so up in their heads they have lost their human hearts, so much so in fact that they've put them in the dictionary.


The notion that man MUST walk down the path of insanity because he needs the energy is just more of the same insane. We do not HAVE to do anything of the kind. This would be like saying we must shoot ourselves in the head because of an oncoming tiger. No, we need to run up a green tree.

Instead of a path that creates potential disaster and toxins for unborn generations we need to do things that are sane. We need to begin the war for green energy. That must be done with renewable energy that doesn't create radioactive wastes and more efficient energy use. The two together will create a much better future, one we can be proud to pass down.

A genius can discover things that can be done. A wise man does what he should. It is wisdom and not scientific prowess alone that will allow us to survive. It was science, was it not, that designed ovens so effective that they burned 6 million Jews? Let us not, like the most technological civilization of its day, be governed by hubris. Your children will thank you. The world is not a play toy, it is a sacred obligation, at least if your heart is alive.

I know, I know. Toys are so fun. But don't forget, the children of the future would also like to play. Make sure they can.

Did you read what the actual volume of nuclear waste is? Even if you increased it by an order of magnitude it wouldnt be a very serious issue to properly store. On top of that, breeder reactors could reuse the vast majority of the fuel, reducing nuclear waste.

Yes, I watched as the wand of hubris was waved over that. I was thinking what might happen if that tiny little volume of waste were sprinkled over NYC. What an elegant storage facility that would make.

The only point in the entire nuclear process where i could see issues surfacing is transporting the waste from the nuclear plant to its appropriate storage facility.

What is stopping nuclear power plants from being built within close proximity of where it would be stored?

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Yes, I watched as the wand of hubris was waved over that. I was thinking what might happen if that tiny little volume of waste were sprinkled over NYC. What an elegant storage facility that would make.

That's nauseatingly open trolling, even for you. It is clear that you have no retort, and are frustrated enough to be rude. If you've got nothing to say, kindly shut the f-ck up.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Nuclear power if for the insane who would gift their children with the massive burden of managing their waste and potential ecological disasters. Insanity in this form is known a hubris.

Dictionary.com:

"Overbearing pride or presumption; arrogance: ?There is no safety in unlimited technological hubris? (McGeorge Bundy)."

Others it seems have recognized the pinheaded nature of scientists so up in their heads they have lost their human hearts, so much so in fact that they've put them in the dictionary.


The notion that man MUST walk down the path of insanity because he needs the energy is just more of the same insane. We do not HAVE to do anything of the kind. This would be like saying we must shoot ourselves in the head because of an oncoming tiger. No, we need to run up a green tree.

Instead of a path that creates potential disaster and toxins for unborn generations we need to do things that are sane. We need to begin the war for green energy. That must be done with renewable energy that doesn't create radioactive wastes and more efficient energy use. The two together will create a much better future, one we can be proud to pass down.

A genius can discover things that can be done. A wise man does what he should. It is wisdom and not scientific prowess alone that will allow us to survive. It was science, was it not, that designed ovens so effective that they burned 6 million Jews? Let us not, like the most technological civilization of its day, be governed by hubris. Your children will thank you. The world is not a play toy, it is a sacred obligation, at least if your heart is alive.

I know, I know. Toys are so fun. But don't forget, the children of the future would also like to play. Make sure they can.

Did you read what the actual volume of nuclear waste is? Even if you increased it by an order of magnitude it wouldnt be a very serious issue to properly store. On top of that, breeder reactors could reuse the vast majority of the fuel, reducing nuclear waste.

Yes, I watched as the wand of hubris was waved over that. I was thinking what might happen if that tiny little volume of waste were sprinkled over NYC. What an elegant storage facility that would make.

The only point in the entire nuclear process where i could see issues surfacing is transporting the waste from the nuclear plant to its appropriate storage facility.

What is stopping nuclear power plants from being built within close proximity of where it would be stored?

If what could go wrong could be predicted and accounted for things like accidents wouldn't happen. What you can imagine going wrong and correcting is not something I want to hand to future kids. You are full of hubris. I do not want my life cursed by future millions. There are better ways to create a more positive future.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Nuclear power if for the insane who would gift their children with the massive burden of managing their waste and potential ecological disasters. Insanity in this form is known a hubris.

Dictionary.com:

"Overbearing pride or presumption; arrogance: ?There is no safety in unlimited technological hubris? (McGeorge Bundy)."

Others it seems have recognized the pinheaded nature of scientists so up in their heads they have lost their human hearts, so much so in fact that they've put them in the dictionary.


The notion that man MUST walk down the path of insanity because he needs the energy is just more of the same insane. We do not HAVE to do anything of the kind. This would be like saying we must shoot ourselves in the head because of an oncoming tiger. No, we need to run up a green tree.

Instead of a path that creates potential disaster and toxins for unborn generations we need to do things that are sane. We need to begin the war for green energy. That must be done with renewable energy that doesn't create radioactive wastes and more efficient energy use. The two together will create a much better future, one we can be proud to pass down.

A genius can discover things that can be done. A wise man does what he should. It is wisdom and not scientific prowess alone that will allow us to survive. It was science, was it not, that designed ovens so effective that they burned 6 million Jews? Let us not, like the most technological civilization of its day, be governed by hubris. Your children will thank you. The world is not a play toy, it is a sacred obligation, at least if your heart is alive.

I know, I know. Toys are so fun. But don't forget, the children of the future would also like to play. Make sure they can.

Did you read what the actual volume of nuclear waste is? Even if you increased it by an order of magnitude it wouldnt be a very serious issue to properly store. On top of that, breeder reactors could reuse the vast majority of the fuel, reducing nuclear waste.

Yes, I watched as the wand of hubris was waved over that. I was thinking what might happen if that tiny little volume of waste were sprinkled over NYC. What an elegant storage facility that would make.

The only point in the entire nuclear process where i could see issues surfacing is transporting the waste from the nuclear plant to its appropriate storage facility.

What is stopping nuclear power plants from being built within close proximity of where it would be stored?

If what could go wrong could be predicted and accounted for things like accidents wouldn't happen. What you can imagine going wrong and correcting is not something I want to hand to future kids. You are full of hubris. I do not want my life cursed by future millions. There are better ways to create a more positive future.

Your ways arent feasible now... i dont understand what you are trying to convey.

 

[newmachineoverlord]

1. Wind energy is cheaper than nuclear in any region with decent wind resources. This does not include most of the southeast.

2. Nuclear plants are designed, manufactured, and maintained by an imperfect species of animal. If nuclear energy were really safe, the government wouldn't need to grant nuclear plants a special exemption from liability, and nuclear plants would be able to insure themselves. There is no country on this planet where nuclear power has competed on even footing with other sources of power and provided more cost effective energy.

3. Plant closing costs and waste storage costs are usually underestimated.

4. If you compare historical subsidies for nuclear power for those of renewable energy, nuclear power is over $50 billion dollars ahead of renewables, yet wind energy already outcompetes nuclear in many areas.


Nuclear is, and always will be a niche market for areas without wind.

Edit: here is a ten year old data sheet showing the levelized costs of different power generation methods.

The total potential for wind energy is several fold more than the total energy consumption of the human race. Source

While it is true that wind power doesn't provide on-demand peaking power, neither does nuclear.

Nuclear power always loses on purely economic grounds, without considering environmental impact or risks. The reason investors never build new plants is that they are not cost effective. The reason investors have been building increasing numbers of wind plants is that they are cost effective. Capitalism has already spoken on this issue with the results plain to see. Nuclear power is mostly obsolete. Based on cost trends from the past twenty years, eventually it will probably be cheaper to build transmission lines to distant offshore wind farms than it will be to build other forms of local generation.

 

[feralkid]

Originally posted by: OrganizedChaos
i think you give the arguments against it to much credit.



B: nuclear waste: theres no such thing as nuclear waste, just nuclear fuel that hasn't been reprocessed yet.




Not waste? call it "fuel"
No problem with proliferation there.

Good selling tactic.


:laugh:



There are no criminals either; just haven't been reformed yet.



There is no poverty in the world; just people who haven't gotten rich yet.


No disease; just prople who haven't been cured yet.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: newmachineoverlord
1. Wind energy is cheaper than nuclear in any region with decent wind resources. This does not include most of the southeast.

2. Nuclear plants are designed, manufactured, and maintained by an imperfect species of animal. If nuclear energy were really safe, the government wouldn't need to grant nuclear plants a special exemption from liability, and nuclear plants would be able to insure themselves. There is no country on this planet where nuclear power has competed on even footing with other sources of power and provided more cost effective energy.

3. Plant closing costs and waste storage costs are usually underestimated.

4. If you compare historical subsidies for nuclear power for those of renewable energy, nuclear power is over $50 billion dollars ahead of renewables, yet wind energy already outcompetes nuclear in many areas.


Nuclear is, and always will be a niche market for areas without wind.

Wind power cannot meet (by a considerable margin) the amount of power or availability of nuclear energy.

That is not to say wind power doesn't have it's place, just that it is not a viable replacement for on demand generation stations.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Nuclear power if for the insane who would gift their children with the massive burden of managing their waste and potential ecological disasters. Insanity in this form is known a hubris.

Dictionary.com:

"Overbearing pride or presumption; arrogance: ?There is no safety in unlimited technological hubris? (McGeorge Bundy)."

Others it seems have recognized the pinheaded nature of scientists so up in their heads they have lost their human hearts, so much so in fact that they've put them in the dictionary.


The notion that man MUST walk down the path of insanity because he needs the energy is just more of the same insane. We do not HAVE to do anything of the kind. This would be like saying we must shoot ourselves in the head because of an oncoming tiger. No, we need to run up a green tree.

Instead of a path that creates potential disaster and toxins for unborn generations we need to do things that are sane. We need to begin the war for green energy. That must be done with renewable energy that doesn't create radioactive wastes and more efficient energy use. The two together will create a much better future, one we can be proud to pass down.

A genius can discover things that can be done. A wise man does what he should. It is wisdom and not scientific prowess alone that will allow us to survive. It was science, was it not, that designed ovens so effective that they burned 6 million Jews? Let us not, like the most technological civilization of its day, be governed by hubris. Your children will thank you. The world is not a play toy, it is a sacred obligation, at least if your heart is alive.

I know, I know. Toys are so fun. But don't forget, the children of the future would also like to play. Make sure they can.

Did you read what the actual volume of nuclear waste is? Even if you increased it by an order of magnitude it wouldnt be a very serious issue to properly store. On top of that, breeder reactors could reuse the vast majority of the fuel, reducing nuclear waste.

Yes, I watched as the wand of hubris was waved over that. I was thinking what might happen if that tiny little volume of waste were sprinkled over NYC. What an elegant storage facility that would make.

Are we suddenly flying this waste over NYC with the intent of giving them a shower?
What a silly argument to make.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Nuclear power if for the insane who would gift their children with the massive burden of managing their waste and potential ecological disasters. Insanity in this form is known a hubris.

Dictionary.com:

"Overbearing pride or presumption; arrogance: ?There is no safety in unlimited technological hubris? (McGeorge Bundy)."

Others it seems have recognized the pinheaded nature of scientists so up in their heads they have lost their human hearts, so much so in fact that they've put them in the dictionary.


The notion that man MUST walk down the path of insanity because he needs the energy is just more of the same insane. We do not HAVE to do anything of the kind. This would be like saying we must shoot ourselves in the head because of an oncoming tiger. No, we need to run up a green tree.

Instead of a path that creates potential disaster and toxins for unborn generations we need to do things that are sane. We need to begin the war for green energy. That must be done with renewable energy that doesn't create radioactive wastes and more efficient energy use. The two together will create a much better future, one we can be proud to pass down.

A genius can discover things that can be done. A wise man does what he should. It is wisdom and not scientific prowess alone that will allow us to survive. It was science, was it not, that designed ovens so effective that they burned 6 million Jews? Let us not, like the most technological civilization of its day, be governed by hubris. Your children will thank you. The world is not a play toy, it is a sacred obligation, at least if your heart is alive.

I know, I know. Toys are so fun. But don't forget, the children of the future would also like to play. Make sure they can.

Did you read what the actual volume of nuclear waste is? Even if you increased it by an order of magnitude it wouldnt be a very serious issue to properly store. On top of that, breeder reactors could reuse the vast majority of the fuel, reducing nuclear waste.

Yes, I watched as the wand of hubris was waved over that. I was thinking what might happen if that tiny little volume of waste were sprinkled over NYC. What an elegant storage facility that would make.

Are we suddenly flying this waste over NYC with the intent of giving them a shower?
What a silly argument to make.

Simplified version for those who lack imagination. The compact size, deadly toxic and relatively permanent nature of nuclear waste make it an ideal substance for use in terrorism. For every genius level protection designed my man, there will come a genius level terrorist who will find a way to exploit it. It is stupid to produce deadly toxins and leave them around for thousands and thousands of years. There is nothing that says we must play Russian Roulette.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Nuclear power if for the insane who would gift their children with the massive burden of managing their waste and potential ecological disasters. Insanity in this form is known a hubris.

Dictionary.com:

"Overbearing pride or presumption; arrogance: ?There is no safety in unlimited technological hubris? (McGeorge Bundy)."

Others it seems have recognized the pinheaded nature of scientists so up in their heads they have lost their human hearts, so much so in fact that they've put them in the dictionary.


The notion that man MUST walk down the path of insanity because he needs the energy is just more of the same insane. We do not HAVE to do anything of the kind. This would be like saying we must shoot ourselves in the head because of an oncoming tiger. No, we need to run up a green tree.

Instead of a path that creates potential disaster and toxins for unborn generations we need to do things that are sane. We need to begin the war for green energy. That must be done with renewable energy that doesn't create radioactive wastes and more efficient energy use. The two together will create a much better future, one we can be proud to pass down.

A genius can discover things that can be done. A wise man does what he should. It is wisdom and not scientific prowess alone that will allow us to survive. It was science, was it not, that designed ovens so effective that they burned 6 million Jews? Let us not, like the most technological civilization of its day, be governed by hubris. Your children will thank you. The world is not a play toy, it is a sacred obligation, at least if your heart is alive.

I know, I know. Toys are so fun. But don't forget, the children of the future would also like to play. Make sure they can.

Did you read what the actual volume of nuclear waste is? Even if you increased it by an order of magnitude it wouldnt be a very serious issue to properly store. On top of that, breeder reactors could reuse the vast majority of the fuel, reducing nuclear waste.

Yes, I watched as the wand of hubris was waved over that. I was thinking what might happen if that tiny little volume of waste were sprinkled over NYC. What an elegant storage facility that would make.

Are we suddenly flying this waste over NYC with the intent of giving them a shower?
What a silly argument to make.

Simplified version for those who lack imagination. The compact size, deadly toxic and relatively permanent nature of nuclear waste make it an ideal substance for use in terrorism. For every genius level protection designed my man, there will come a genius level terrorist who will find a way to exploit it. It is stupid to produce deadly toxins and leave them around for thousands and thousands of years. There is nothing that says we must play Russian Roulette.

So your basis for this is either

A. Terrorists manage to penetrate our storage facility, steal some used fuel, and then head out using it for their evil purposes.

or

B. United States collapses as a govt entity and the facilities holding the waste go undefended and terrorists swoop in and take the waste.

I am not so sure we should base our energy policy around a plan that includes the collapse of the govt. And as others have pointed out, we can enrich the used fuel and reuse it, cutting down on the waste.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Nuclear power if for the insane who would gift their children with the massive burden of managing their waste and potential ecological disasters. Insanity in this form is known a hubris.

Dictionary.com:

"Overbearing pride or presumption; arrogance: ?There is no safety in unlimited technological hubris? (McGeorge Bundy)."

Others it seems have recognized the pinheaded nature of scientists so up in their heads they have lost their human hearts, so much so in fact that they've put them in the dictionary.


The notion that man MUST walk down the path of insanity because he needs the energy is just more of the same insane. We do not HAVE to do anything of the kind. This would be like saying we must shoot ourselves in the head because of an oncoming tiger. No, we need to run up a green tree.

Instead of a path that creates potential disaster and toxins for unborn generations we need to do things that are sane. We need to begin the war for green energy. That must be done with renewable energy that doesn't create radioactive wastes and more efficient energy use. The two together will create a much better future, one we can be proud to pass down.

A genius can discover things that can be done. A wise man does what he should. It is wisdom and not scientific prowess alone that will allow us to survive. It was science, was it not, that designed ovens so effective that they burned 6 million Jews? Let us not, like the most technological civilization of its day, be governed by hubris. Your children will thank you. The world is not a play toy, it is a sacred obligation, at least if your heart is alive.

I know, I know. Toys are so fun. But don't forget, the children of the future would also like to play. Make sure they can.

Did you read what the actual volume of nuclear waste is? Even if you increased it by an order of magnitude it wouldnt be a very serious issue to properly store. On top of that, breeder reactors could reuse the vast majority of the fuel, reducing nuclear waste.

Yes, I watched as the wand of hubris was waved over that. I was thinking what might happen if that tiny little volume of waste were sprinkled over NYC. What an elegant storage facility that would make.

Are we suddenly flying this waste over NYC with the intent of giving them a shower?
What a silly argument to make.

Simplified version for those who lack imagination. The compact size, deadly toxic and relatively permanent nature of nuclear waste make it an ideal substance for use in terrorism. For every genius level protection designed my man, there will come a genius level terrorist who will find a way to exploit it. It is stupid to produce deadly toxins and leave them around for thousands and thousands of years. There is nothing that says we must play Russian Roulette.

So your basis for this is either

A. Terrorists manage to penetrate our storage facility, steal some used fuel, and then head out using it for their evil purposes.

or

B. United States collapses as a govt entity and the facilities holding the waste go undefended and terrorists swoop in and take the waste.

I am not so sure we should base our energy policy around a plan that includes the collapse of the govt. And as others have pointed out, we can enrich the used fuel and reuse it, cutting down on the waste.

Nice 3rd grade logic.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Nuclear power if for the insane who would gift their children with the massive burden of managing their waste and potential ecological disasters. Insanity in this form is known a hubris.

Dictionary.com:

"Overbearing pride or presumption; arrogance: ?There is no safety in unlimited technological hubris? (McGeorge Bundy)."

Others it seems have recognized the pinheaded nature of scientists so up in their heads they have lost their human hearts, so much so in fact that they've put them in the dictionary.


The notion that man MUST walk down the path of insanity because he needs the energy is just more of the same insane. We do not HAVE to do anything of the kind. This would be like saying we must shoot ourselves in the head because of an oncoming tiger. No, we need to run up a green tree.

Instead of a path that creates potential disaster and toxins for unborn generations we need to do things that are sane. We need to begin the war for green energy. That must be done with renewable energy that doesn't create radioactive wastes and more efficient energy use. The two together will create a much better future, one we can be proud to pass down.

A genius can discover things that can be done. A wise man does what he should. It is wisdom and not scientific prowess alone that will allow us to survive. It was science, was it not, that designed ovens so effective that they burned 6 million Jews? Let us not, like the most technological civilization of its day, be governed by hubris. Your children will thank you. The world is not a play toy, it is a sacred obligation, at least if your heart is alive.

I know, I know. Toys are so fun. But don't forget, the children of the future would also like to play. Make sure they can.

Did you read what the actual volume of nuclear waste is? Even if you increased it by an order of magnitude it wouldnt be a very serious issue to properly store. On top of that, breeder reactors could reuse the vast majority of the fuel, reducing nuclear waste.

Yes, I watched as the wand of hubris was waved over that. I was thinking what might happen if that tiny little volume of waste were sprinkled over NYC. What an elegant storage facility that would make.

Are we suddenly flying this waste over NYC with the intent of giving them a shower?
What a silly argument to make.

Simplified version for those who lack imagination. The compact size, deadly toxic and relatively permanent nature of nuclear waste make it an ideal substance for use in terrorism. For every genius level protection designed my man, there will come a genius level terrorist who will find a way to exploit it. It is stupid to produce deadly toxins and leave them around for thousands and thousands of years. There is nothing that says we must play Russian Roulette.

If we bury it in boreholes several km deep or within seabed subduction zones that becomes much less of a problem.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Nuclear power if for the insane who would gift their children with the massive burden of managing their waste and potential ecological disasters. Insanity in this form is known a hubris.

Dictionary.com:

"Overbearing pride or presumption; arrogance: ?There is no safety in unlimited technological hubris? (McGeorge Bundy)."

Others it seems have recognized the pinheaded nature of scientists so up in their heads they have lost their human hearts, so much so in fact that they've put them in the dictionary.


The notion that man MUST walk down the path of insanity because he needs the energy is just more of the same insane. We do not HAVE to do anything of the kind. This would be like saying we must shoot ourselves in the head because of an oncoming tiger. No, we need to run up a green tree.

Instead of a path that creates potential disaster and toxins for unborn generations we need to do things that are sane. We need to begin the war for green energy. That must be done with renewable energy that doesn't create radioactive wastes and more efficient energy use. The two together will create a much better future, one we can be proud to pass down.

A genius can discover things that can be done. A wise man does what he should. It is wisdom and not scientific prowess alone that will allow us to survive. It was science, was it not, that designed ovens so effective that they burned 6 million Jews? Let us not, like the most technological civilization of its day, be governed by hubris. Your children will thank you. The world is not a play toy, it is a sacred obligation, at least if your heart is alive.

I know, I know. Toys are so fun. But don't forget, the children of the future would also like to play. Make sure they can.

Did you read what the actual volume of nuclear waste is? Even if you increased it by an order of magnitude it wouldnt be a very serious issue to properly store. On top of that, breeder reactors could reuse the vast majority of the fuel, reducing nuclear waste.

Yes, I watched as the wand of hubris was waved over that. I was thinking what might happen if that tiny little volume of waste were sprinkled over NYC. What an elegant storage facility that would make.

Are we suddenly flying this waste over NYC with the intent of giving them a shower?
What a silly argument to make.

Simplified version for those who lack imagination. The compact size, deadly toxic and relatively permanent nature of nuclear waste make it an ideal substance for use in terrorism. For every genius level protection designed my man, there will come a genius level terrorist who will find a way to exploit it. It is stupid to produce deadly toxins and leave them around for thousands and thousands of years. There is nothing that says we must play Russian Roulette.

So your basis for this is either

A. Terrorists manage to penetrate our storage facility, steal some used fuel, and then head out using it for their evil purposes.

or

B. United States collapses as a govt entity and the facilities holding the waste go undefended and terrorists swoop in and take the waste.

I am not so sure we should base our energy policy around a plan that includes the collapse of the govt. And as others have pointed out, we can enrich the used fuel and reuse it, cutting down on the waste.

Nice 3rd grade logic.

Well it would be nice terrorists were similarly imaginative.

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Simplified version for those who lack imagination. The compact size, deadly toxic and relatively permanent nature of nuclear waste make it an ideal substance for use in terrorism. For every genius level protection designed my man, there will come a genius level terrorist who will find a way to exploit it. It is stupid to produce deadly toxins and leave them around for thousands and thousands of years. There is nothing that says we must play Russian Roulette.

Radioactive water is not very radioactive per unit mass, its density is very low (compared to solids), and it has a short halflife. That, and the radiation is mostly beta, and can be stopped by <1mm of light shielding (such as leaded rubber gloves, or polycarbonate).

Radioactive uranium rods, which emit highly penetrating gamma radiation (as well as neutrons), are heavily guarded... they are VERY heavy, and would are hard to transport without well... dying very quickly. The rods are also solid metal (which is also flammable), and would have to be processed under insanely radioactive conditions if the contents are to be dispersed. In short, acquiring these materials for terrorists would be about as difficult as acquiring weapons-grade uranium.

And finally, there is an inverse relationship between the area that is affected, and the radioactive effects. With the likely amount of material used in an attack not exceeding 10kg, if that amount of radioactivity would be sprinkled around NYC, it would do... precisely... nothing. I can draw up some calculations if you desire. I'd venture a guess that the level of radioactivity would not be much higher than 2-3X background... which is far far far within safety levels.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Nuclear power if for the insane who would gift their children with the massive burden of managing their waste and potential ecological disasters. Insanity in this form is known a hubris.

Dictionary.com:

"Overbearing pride or presumption; arrogance: ?There is no safety in unlimited technological hubris? (McGeorge Bundy)."

Others it seems have recognized the pinheaded nature of scientists so up in their heads they have lost their human hearts, so much so in fact that they've put them in the dictionary.


The notion that man MUST walk down the path of insanity because he needs the energy is just more of the same insane. We do not HAVE to do anything of the kind. This would be like saying we must shoot ourselves in the head because of an oncoming tiger. No, we need to run up a green tree.

Instead of a path that creates potential disaster and toxins for unborn generations we need to do things that are sane. We need to begin the war for green energy. That must be done with renewable energy that doesn't create radioactive wastes and more efficient energy use. The two together will create a much better future, one we can be proud to pass down.

A genius can discover things that can be done. A wise man does what he should. It is wisdom and not scientific prowess alone that will allow us to survive. It was science, was it not, that designed ovens so effective that they burned 6 million Jews? Let us not, like the most technological civilization of its day, be governed by hubris. Your children will thank you. The world is not a play toy, it is a sacred obligation, at least if your heart is alive.

I know, I know. Toys are so fun. But don't forget, the children of the future would also like to play. Make sure they can.

Did you read what the actual volume of nuclear waste is? Even if you increased it by an order of magnitude it wouldnt be a very serious issue to properly store. On top of that, breeder reactors could reuse the vast majority of the fuel, reducing nuclear waste.

Yes, I watched as the wand of hubris was waved over that. I was thinking what might happen if that tiny little volume of waste were sprinkled over NYC. What an elegant storage facility that would make.

Are we suddenly flying this waste over NYC with the intent of giving them a shower?
What a silly argument to make.

Simplified version for those who lack imagination. The compact size, deadly toxic and relatively permanent nature of nuclear waste make it an ideal substance for use in terrorism. For every genius level protection designed my man, there will come a genius level terrorist who will find a way to exploit it. It is stupid to produce deadly toxins and leave them around for thousands and thousands of years. There is nothing that says we must play Russian Roulette.

If we bury it in boreholes several km deep or within seabed subduction zones that becomes much less of a problem.

Yes, but not nearly as small a problem as not creating the waste at all.