Thanks for the link, but with the dvd drive problem solved I can just get a XP machine, which I prefer anyway, and be set. XP also solves the ram issue. And with a 16 or 32 GB flash drive that should work also. This opens up a lot of options for me now that I'm not concerned about an external dvd drive.
With as many posts as you have, I assume you also have no job along with no education to make a comment like that. Move to another topic and annoy them.
Winterpool
Senior member
- Mar 1, 2008
- 830
- 0
- 0
As to the immediate, practical question, I think some of the contributors have made efforts here to prove options with the specs you desire are in fact available. There remains the caveat reliable, but that's difficult to judge, especially with newer products. If you go by survey results, Apple and Lenovo ThinkPads win by a mile, but they charge a hefty premium. (And both brands 'build quality may not be what it was even a few years ago.)
I do think, with notebooks, you generally get what you pay for. I work in university IT and always share that maxim with prospective buyers. Computer components may be commodities, but their integration in a notebook, and the general fit and finish of the whole, is more critical with a product that's going to be exposed to all the outside world's bumps and buffeting. So if we know that the minimum cost for the components you desire is X, and the minimum assembly, labour, etc costs are Y, then the premium Z for reliablity and build quality will, I suspect, always remain significant for notebooks.
I suppose your question could be rephrased as
1.) Why hasn't X fallen enough so that even with a sufficient quality premium Z, X+Y+Z+profit will be < $500.
or
2.) Why hasn't technology or manufacturing techniques dropped Z more significantly?
Aside from 2.5-inch hard drives [edited: and memory, duh], notebook components aren't really sold at the retail level in anything like the volumes of desktop components (for obvious reasons). It's harder for geeks to engage in our hobby of tallying a list of retail components and comparing them to an OEM's finished product price. Sites like iSuppli do teardowns of high-profile products (eg Apple) and estimate X for us, which enables investors to obtain the figure they care about (profit).
If you feel companies aren't entitled to large profit margins, than that figure may fill you with rage or contempt. But in many markets, it's difficult to obtain a product that has decent Z (and thus one hopes high quality and reliability) without being accompanied by a hefty profit margin.
Many people compare Apple computers to luxury motor cars like BMW, and if you permit me to apply that analogy, I suppose you're wondering why there's no equivalent to the cheap but dependable Japanese car? Someone more familiar with engineering and manfuacturing could perhaps supply an answer.
I do think, with notebooks, you generally get what you pay for. I work in university IT and always share that maxim with prospective buyers. Computer components may be commodities, but their integration in a notebook, and the general fit and finish of the whole, is more critical with a product that's going to be exposed to all the outside world's bumps and buffeting. So if we know that the minimum cost for the components you desire is X, and the minimum assembly, labour, etc costs are Y, then the premium Z for reliablity and build quality will, I suspect, always remain significant for notebooks.
I suppose your question could be rephrased as
1.) Why hasn't X fallen enough so that even with a sufficient quality premium Z, X+Y+Z+profit will be < $500.
or
2.) Why hasn't technology or manufacturing techniques dropped Z more significantly?
Aside from 2.5-inch hard drives [edited: and memory, duh], notebook components aren't really sold at the retail level in anything like the volumes of desktop components (for obvious reasons). It's harder for geeks to engage in our hobby of tallying a list of retail components and comparing them to an OEM's finished product price. Sites like iSuppli do teardowns of high-profile products (eg Apple) and estimate X for us, which enables investors to obtain the figure they care about (profit).
If you feel companies aren't entitled to large profit margins, than that figure may fill you with rage or contempt. But in many markets, it's difficult to obtain a product that has decent Z (and thus one hopes high quality and reliability) without being accompanied by a hefty profit margin.
Many people compare Apple computers to luxury motor cars like BMW, and if you permit me to apply that analogy, I suppose you're wondering why there's no equivalent to the cheap but dependable Japanese car? Someone more familiar with engineering and manfuacturing could perhaps supply an answer.
bamacre
Lifer
- Jul 1, 2004
- 21,029
- 2
- 81
preslove is absolutely correct.
Like I think I noted earlier, I have purchased well over 800 systems from Dell Outlet in the past 4 years, and their quality is the same as a new system. Servers, workstations, laptops, desktops, whatever. And if you think I am bullshitting you, then you are greatly mistaken.
Acer $399
Dell $499
Hard drive >80GB - check
Memory > 1GB - check
DVD drive - check
Wifi - check
Processsor - check, dual core even. T3200 is 65nm Merom with 64-bit support. More than basic
To the OP: most full-size laptops with specs exceeding your "expectation" can be easily found with price tags <$500. You just have to look for them to get the better deals. Heck, you could walk into Walmart and pick up a sub-$500 laptop with specs higher than what you listed (40-80GB HDD, etc) any given day.
HP/Compaq easily have units for sale at places like circuit city, staples for <$500. This is where the new market is - affordable laptops under $1000. Granted, most of them all come from the same mold - 15.4" screen, 1280x800, integrated graphics, etc but they're solid performers for most people.
And most of these can easily be upgraded. Soldered memory is usually something you find in smaller or specialty machines. If you don't believe me, step into a computer store and ask to see the underside of all the laptops they have - 8 to 9 out of 10 will have access doors to upgrade memory. They're all built this way to allow easier repairs and part replacement.
I think the answer to some of these questions, aside from corporate greed, is that the cost of manufacturing remains relatively the same and there is little room for further adjustment. Nowadays it probably costs a hard drive manufacturer the same to make a hard drive with 160GB platters vs. 40GB platters, and flash memory manufacters to make 1GB sticks vs. 512MB sticks. Because of this as consumers we're going to see prices more or less leveling off - you won't be able to find a computer for less, but for the same amount of dollars you're going to get more than you would 6 months ago.
Although I'm certain that one can easily locate statistics that show average laptop prices steadily declining over the years...although I'd say we've reached a local minimum at this point where the technology isn't improving fast enough for companies to further reduce prices in order to maintain a constant or increased profit margin.
alkemyst
No Lifer
- Feb 13, 2001
- 83,769
- 19
- 81
Technical writers are uber critical on components it seems.
I find most laptops fall into those that can game and everything else.
Out of the everything else category most are going to be way overkill for users.
Hell a PIII-M 1.2GHz makes for an excellent web/email/Office PC still with a decent harddrive and a gig of ram.
I find most laptops fall into those that can game and everything else.
Out of the everything else category most are going to be way overkill for users.
Hell a PIII-M 1.2GHz makes for an excellent web/email/Office PC still with a decent harddrive and a gig of ram.
Parasitic- Thanks for the link, the Dell looks good.
Preslove- Go to college, get educated, learn how to deal with people and realize that because your experience with refurbished items may have been ok, doesn't equal all peoples experience with them. An education will also make you a lot less judgemental about others. Your participation in this forum is optional, you don't have to reply if you have much more important issues to deal with.
Preslove- Go to college, get educated, learn how to deal with people and realize that because your experience with refurbished items may have been ok, doesn't equal all peoples experience with them. An education will also make you a lot less judgemental about others. Your participation in this forum is optional, you don't have to reply if you have much more important issues to deal with.
alkemyst
No Lifer
- Feb 13, 2001
- 83,769
- 19
- 81
dude I know a TON of people that I have personally told to pick up a Dell refurb and had no problems anyone else would have with a new unit. Many are buyer's remorse/wife or husband laying down the law returns.
Just the fact you have been oblivious to sub $1000 laptops is pretty much a good sign to listen to others telling you the options.
I'd really be interested in knowing just how many refurbished laptops you have bought.
Just the fact you have been oblivious to sub $1000 laptops is pretty much a good sign to listen to others telling you the options.
I'd really be interested in knowing just how many refurbished laptops you have bought.
My experience with refurbs is as a CET. The sub $1000 has nothing to do with the current issue. I'm making good progress in my quest in finding a quality under $500 laptop thanks to those who are actually trying to help instead of criticize.
preslove
Lifer
- Sep 10, 2003
- 16,754
- 64
- 91
lol, I have a master's degree you pompous little dipshit.
And you have not once said that you have ANY experiences with DELL refurbished. Dell outlet has an EXCELLENT reputation and I have not once read a bad review of a product bought from it.
There are deals for laptops with dual core, 2 or 3 gigs of ram, DVD/RW and a ~160 hd for $499 or less just about every week at big box retailers. The entire premise of your post is fallacious.
You are an idiot and everyone who has read this thread knows it. STFU and stop posting.
Looking for something else to criticize? You've added nothing to my post. Your only purpose here is to cause problems, taken a look at your ratings here lately? Move on to another thread.
alkemyst
No Lifer
- Feb 13, 2001
- 83,769
- 19
- 81
What's a CET? Computer Engineering Tech?
I have been in IS/IT for 25 years now. 10 years in fortune 500+ as non-phone support (I get a kick out of those saying they are part of a Fortune 500+ but work help desk/customer service).
For years now I recommend Dell esp refurb. The user gets a cheap machine + support.
You are pretty hostile. I get tons of flack in most posts and still don't react like this.
To all of us 'experts' (like how you include yourself in) this thread sounds like a joke.
CET- Certified Electronics Technician and a degree in engineering. Your lack of expertise is showing. You play with toys, I solve engineering issues. Get an education and then we'll talk.
preslove
Lifer
- Sep 10, 2003
- 16,754
- 64
- 91
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