What ever hapened to Grouping in MMOG

[Rambel]

Seems like all the Online rpg games now days or after EQ 1 folks just solo there way doing quest to were they get to close or at max lv and then PVP. if the game offer's PVP.

I miss the time were everyone was looking to get in a group. I don't miss waiting to get into one but they need to balance out rewards and exp for things that require a group to make grouping more wanted again.

I loaded up EQ 1 again but every one was 20 level's higher than me and very few seemed to be on.

WOW is you just solo doing quest to lv 60 or so.

Tried out Warhamer and I guess I was late getting the game because I saw few folks wanting to group.

Age of coan was the same easy to lv up fast soling and then it was all PVP mostly.

EQ 1 had issue's but I look forward to a game that comes out that is more like it was at the start of EQ 1 and the way WOW was at the start.

 

[Vehemence]

Find better people to play with.

 

[Bateluer]

Have you looked at EQ2? There is a lot of content geared for solo players, but the game always has been group oriented. All the high level dungeons and instances require a group.

Originally posted by: dNor
Find better people to play with.

If you're playing PvP MMOs, you won't find much better. Maturity level is usually very low.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Play Eve if you want to group. Or FFXI

 

[Vehemence]

Originally posted by: dNor
Find better people to play with.

If you're playing PvP MMOs, you won't find much better. Maturity level is usually very low.[/quote]

You can find good players to play with from other games as well. As a group you're more likely to try new games, including PvP ones. That's how I found a solid group of people to stay playing with.

PUGs are terrible. Don't even bother if you don't have to.

 

[Genx87]

WoW changed the landscape. A solo friendly game and people liked it.

 

[Schadenfroh]

You have "casual" players to thank.

 

[rivan]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
You have "casual" players to thank.

You have me to thank!

I like grouping. I also like playing solo.

With active kids, a wife, and a grown-up job, I play for a couple hours each night ? tops. For whatever reason, WoW, LotrO and games like it have limits to the number of people on a server, and finding a group for most stuff isn't instant unless you're doing the newest thing or endgame content, and sometimes not even then. I can't/won't commit to a schedule - if the kids need me for something, guess what comes first?

Figuring on two hours to play, I've got zero chance of endgame raids - some dungeons are even out of the picture. If getting a group for something else takes me more than 10-15 minutes I'm just not interested.

So yes, partially you have me to thank. There's also game design to consider, though. Obviously a game trying to cater to both me and the highly-organized, scheduled 40-man, raid guild has a tall order to fill, but why can't dungeons be made to scale? Why can't they come up with something that makes the classic 5-man dungeons scaleable to 3-man, or up to 8-man? Make 25-man raids scale between 18 and 32-man. Adjust spawns, health, mob damage output, whatever to make them a little more flexible. In case you've never noticed, there's always a shortage of healers - if an instance sees there's no healer in the group, reduce mob damage output... make it harder, but not impossible as it currently is. In WoW's case, they're pulling in more than enough cash each month to hire an army of bright, motivated coders to make it happen.

 

[Rambel]

Ok good points but I to have a limited time to be online, I like the Idea of being able to solo will waiting for a group or if I didn't have the time to join one. Work a 12 hr swing shift with a good bit of over time and supporting a daughter that returned with a new Grandson and paying tuition for my Son. I was able to play EQ 1 with out devoting to much more time than what I have now to play online and bring a Enchanter up to LV 64 not Soloing at all.
What I miss is taking on what a group takes to do and the group all working together to make it threw something that is very hard to do even as a group.

Bad point is you get less loot and money doing this but it always seemed more fun than soloing.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: rivan

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
You have "casual" players to thank.

You have me to thank!

I like grouping. I also like playing solo.

With active kids, a wife, and a grown-up job, I play for a couple hours each night ? tops. For whatever reason, WoW, LotrO and games like it have limits to the number of people on a server, and finding a group for most stuff isn't instant unless you're doing the newest thing or endgame content, and sometimes not even then. I can't/won't commit to a schedule - if the kids need me for something, guess what comes first?

Figuring on two hours to play, I've got zero chance of endgame raids - some dungeons are even out of the picture. If getting a group for something else takes me more than 10-15 minutes I'm just not interested.

So yes, partially you have me to thank. There's also game design to consider, though. Obviously a game trying to cater to both me and the highly-organized, scheduled 40-man, raid guild has a tall order to fill, but why can't dungeons be made to scale? Why can't they come up with something that makes the classic 5-man dungeons scaleable to 3-man, or up to 8-man? Make 25-man raids scale between 18 and 32-man. Adjust spawns, health, mob damage output, whatever to make them a little more flexible. In case you've never noticed, there's always a shortage of healers - if an instance sees there's no healer in the group, reduce mob damage output... make it harder, but not impossible as it currently is. In WoW's case, they're pulling in more than enough cash each month to hire an army of bright, motivated coders to make it happen.

Blizzard is hearing you... WotLK has 10 and 25 man versions of the same endgame dungeons.

Personally, I enjoy solo play and I also enjoy grouping when in a good group. Solo play to me is often more challenging though. Usually when running a dungeon with a group you have someone who has done it before giving instructions on how to best beat the encounter, which is cool. With soloing on the other hand, I might get into a situation where I actually have to figure out the best way to complete a quest on my own.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: Genx87
WoW changed the landscape. A solo friendly game and people liked it.

This hurt everything too. It's sad when people will fight for mob spawns for a kill quest when you could simply group up and everyone gets credit =\.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Originally posted by: rivan

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
You have "casual" players to thank.

You have me to thank!

I like grouping. I also like playing solo.

With active kids, a wife, and a grown-up job, I play for a couple hours each night ? tops. For whatever reason, WoW, LotrO and games like it have limits to the number of people on a server, and finding a group for most stuff isn't instant unless you're doing the newest thing or endgame content, and sometimes not even then. I can't/won't commit to a schedule - if the kids need me for something, guess what comes first?

Figuring on two hours to play, I've got zero chance of endgame raids - some dungeons are even out of the picture. If getting a group for something else takes me more than 10-15 minutes I'm just not interested.

So yes, partially you have me to thank. There's also game design to consider, though. Obviously a game trying to cater to both me and the highly-organized, scheduled 40-man, raid guild has a tall order to fill, but why can't dungeons be made to scale? Why can't they come up with something that makes the classic 5-man dungeons scaleable to 3-man, or up to 8-man? Make 25-man raids scale between 18 and 32-man. Adjust spawns, health, mob damage output, whatever to make them a little more flexible. In case you've never noticed, there's always a shortage of healers - if an instance sees there's no healer in the group, reduce mob damage output... make it harder, but not impossible as it currently is. In WoW's case, they're pulling in more than enough cash each month to hire an army of bright, motivated coders to make it happen.

Blizzard is hearing you... WotLK has 10 and 25 man versions of the same endgame dungeons.

Personally, I enjoy solo play and I also enjoy grouping when in a good group. Solo play to me is often more challenging though. Usually when running a dungeon with a group you have someone who has done it before giving instructions on how to best beat the encounter, which is cool. With soloing on the other hand, I might get into a situation where I actually have to figure out the best way to complete a quest on my own.

I love the 10/25 man dungeon idea. It gives the more casual player a chance to see more content (and get their shinies) but also leaves a path open for hardcore progression. Any complaints from casuals at that point becomes nothing more than a gear complaint because after all if you see all of the content what else is there to complain about?

As for the OP, I love the way the group/solo system works now. I love grouping when necessary but also love the fact that I can go do most of what I need solo if I am just in the mood to hop in and play for 30-60 minutes.

 

[Dumac]

The problem is that grouping is rarely necessary.

In EQ, you needed to group. Sure, some classes could solo mobs a good bit below their level (LB, or if they were good, DB), however grouping was usually the way to go.

I miss this in MMOs. Without it, there is no sense of attachment or community.

 

[derdrache]

Originally posted by: Dumac
The problem is that grouping is rarely necessary.

In EQ, you needed to group. Sure, some classes could solo mobs a good bit below their level (LB, or if they were good, DB), however grouping was usually the way to go.

I miss this in MMOs. Without it, there is no sense of attachment or community.

one word. enchanter.

low levels you were just about useless....

 

[Craig234]

I think you're right on in saying that groups are an important part of MMO's.

People sometimes have contradictory preferences - they turn an MMO into a single player game.

Players frequently want things to be easier and don't realize the sense of accomplishment is a reason they want to play.

I always thought, before WoW was made, that the challenge that made EQ memorable also left it vulnerable to competition that was easier.

EQ was 'the only game in town' figuratively and that let it get away with a lot of challenge.

Grouping was more personally intensive in that game. The challenge seemed to build camaraderie.

I thought that easier competitors would pull players away and leave a niche who were heavily invested or enjoyed the challenge or had built relationships, and I think that's pretty much what happened when WoW came out. For the guilds, many moved en masse to WoW rather than have many players leave and split the guild up.

 

[TallBill]

Warhammer has a bit to much of a rush to go into scenarios at the current moment. But a lot of people are getting bored with that, so I can see Public Quests getting more popular. I personally think that they should increase the quality of PQ and regular quest loot to make people want to do them.

 

[sash1]

when i used to play Lineage 2 i was always in groups. i had a high lvl bladedancer (fighter/offensive buffer) and would usually duo with another fighter or a buffer. though i would also go AOE with my clan quite a bit in a larger group, which was probably the most fun. i found very rarely in L2 that i would solo, and not many people did either, most people tried to get a balanced party going. i found it easy to get into groups in L2, a lot because i was one of the higher lvl bladedancers at the time and had good buffs.

i don't know how L2 is nowadays, i haven't played it in a long while...

 

[Rambel]

On Ware hammer which I tried for a few weeks during the PQ usually the healer won do to the type of DMG meter, more healing done over all than DPS. I liked that a lot in some ways in most games the healer the healer seemed to not be on top of the loot unless they were using a roll the dice. Need before greed doesn't work do to some one hitting need for a item that cant even use it. This was just for pick up groups guild and friends never a issue. but a warrior need to be equipped good to take hits and keep agro.

 

[Rambel]

I may forgo installing wow again and just install EQ 2 I never gave it but a month or so when it came out. Upgrading from a core 2 duo at 2.4 gig to one that is 3.0 gig and going to 8 gig of ram over 2 gig, already using a ATi 4850 so I shouldn't have any problems playing any new game coming out, unless they need quad core's to run good.
Not sure if the Enchanter class on EQ is much in Need these days read that it still has a lot of folks playing it lv 40 plus.

 

[Rambel]

On Ware hammer which I tried for a few weeks during the PQ usually the healer won do to the type of DMG meter, more healing done over all than DPS. I liked that a lot in some ways in most games the healer the healer seemed to not be on top of the loot unless they were using a roll the dice. Need before greed doesn't work do to some one hitting need for a item that cant even use it. This was just for pick up groups guild and friends never a issue. but a warrior need to be equipped good to take hits and keep agro.

 

[Dumac]

Originally posted by: derdrache

Originally posted by: Dumac
The problem is that grouping is rarely necessary.

In EQ, you needed to group. Sure, some classes could solo mobs a good bit below their level (LB, or if they were good, DB), however grouping was usually the way to go.

I miss this in MMOs. Without it, there is no sense of attachment or community.

one word. enchanter.

low levels you were just about useless....

Horrible example

While enchanters weren't in the highest demand for low levels, they were in very high demand for most high level groups. Enchanters became almost a necessity when the slightest mistake means death for all.

I would know. My main was a 60 enc.

At low levels you can still make it into many groups however as a filler class, offering good buffs like haste, clarity, and other examples. Yes, people grouped even at low levels.

 

[MrPickins]

Originally posted by: tenshodo13
Play Eve if you want to group. Or FFXI

This.

Grouping is required for most of the content. Working as a cohesive unit feels very rewarding, IMO.

 

[Psynaut]

Originally posted by: Dumac

Originally posted by: derdrache

Originally posted by: Dumac
The problem is that grouping is rarely necessary.

In EQ, you needed to group. Sure, some classes could solo mobs a good bit below their level (LB, or if they were good, DB), however grouping was usually the way to go.

I miss this in MMOs. Without it, there is no sense of attachment or community.

one word. enchanter.

low levels you were just about useless....

Horrible example

While enchanters weren't in the highest demand for low levels, they were in very high demand for most high level groups. Enchanters became almost a necessity when the slightest mistake means death for all.

I would know. My main was a 60 enc.

At low levels you can still make it into many groups however as a filler class, offering good buffs like haste, clarity, and other examples. Yes, people grouped even at low levels.

If by 'low levels' you mean below level 12 than maybe; but that took one day to get and even then I had no problem getting an Orc group in the East and West Commons. By level 16 (when I got Breeze) Enchanters would be turning away groups all day long - I was. The only time I couldn't get group was with certain dumb ass tanks who didn't know what an Enchanter could do, but after they grouped with me once, they would send me tells to group every day from then on.

Anyway, I realize this thread isn't about EQ Enchanters, so...

 

[Dumac]

Originally posted by: Psynaut
Anyway, I realize this thread isn't about EQ Enchanters, so...

Maybe it should be?

As far as the suggestions to play FFXI and EVE, to be fair I did try FFXI. However, it felt so dead. I saw more people firing up EQ this past month than I did playing FFXI for a couple months. Also, the fighting and skills were boring, the market was crap, and the game just generally sucked on multiple levels.

No one has bested EQ that I've seen.