What does your next CPU need to deliver for you to upgrade to it?

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Madpacket

Platinum Member
Nov 15, 2005
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Edited to expand thoughts...

It's a question of identifying the bottleneck. SSD's or NVME SSD's got rid of the storage bottleneck. Graphic cards are fast enough unless you're shooting for a solid 60fps at 4K at ultra details At 1080P/1440P there are affordable GPU's that remove it as a bottleneck. CPU's are already fast enough, we just don't take advantage of them fully.

My opinion is faster CPU's have become mostly academic on the desktop since around the release of the 2600K.

1. What problem would a CPU faster than a i7-6700K solve?
2. Will a faster processors really provide us a better overall computing experience?
3. Isn't it more important to address other areas of computing before demanding faster CPU's?

I'll give an example. I want instantaneous computing for all tasks, no more waiting period. No more animated hour glass or spinning coloured wheels. Just Click and BAM!, done. I want to load up a 64 player BF4 Shanghai conquest match instantaneously. I want to get into a game as easy as it was in 1987. Pop the cartridge in the console, power on the NES and hit start to play.

Would a faster processor be necessary to accomplish this?

We have cruddy desktop operating systems designed with legacy support and aimed or optized to run on archaic specs. These popular OS's can't handle real time processing and severely hinder the insanely fast hardware at their disposal. They simply don't take advantage of the hardware.

For example, what's the desire for wanting AVX-512 ISA? I mean it's super cool technology but how would this benefit the average PC user using OS X or Windows 10? What software is written to take advantage of this tech?

Making faster CPU's is simply a band-aid for broken software and OS's. 5 - 8 % IPC bumps every few years is a snail's pace compared to the advances we got 10 years ago. 10 years ago CPU's were already damn fast, only a mild bottleneck where mechanical storage was a massive bottleneck and masked many of the benefits of upgrading.

Tldr; We don't really need faster CPU's yet, we need modern operating systems and better software to properly take advantage of today's hardware. We need faster networks, better integration, better security and smarter design. Upgrading to faster CPU's on the desktop is about as beneficial to us as Bill Gates earning even more money.
 
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ClockHound

Golden Member
Nov 27, 2007
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Very good points, @Madpacket. Hard to disagree with blaming lazy programmers and profiteering software companies. Sadly it was ever thus. The hardware engineers bust their masks to provide faster chips and the software biz develops more cruft to mask the speed increase. It's the way of development - useless features before all else.
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
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Sandy/Ivy Bridge IPC with 4C/8T @ mid 3 Ghz clocks.

This could be in the form of a E5 1620 (around $45 these days) in a used 1P LGA 2011 workstation.

But what I really want is Zen 4C/8T @ mid 3 Ghz clocks (re: Besides being new, I would like to make a 11 to 14 liter SFF machine capable of handling a 10.5" to 13" video card with M.2 SDD on the front of the motherboard)
 
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DeathReborn

Platinum Member
Oct 11, 2005
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Tldr; We don't really need faster CPU's yet, we need modern operating systems and better software to properly take advantage of today's hardware. We need faster networks, better integration, better security and smarter design. Upgrading to faster CPU's on the desktop is about as beneficial to us as Bill Gates earning even more money.

Left the Tldr for brevity but while I broadly agree we also need interconnects to be much better. Shunting Data from the HDD (even SSD's) to the RAM/CPU/GPU etc is a pretty big bottleneck still. It needs vastly lower latency and vastly higher bandwidth, gotta feed the beasts and software is only part of the answer.

No CPU in the near future is going to fix that issue though.
 

TheELF

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2012
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Left the Tldr for brevity but while I broadly agree we also need interconnects to be much better. Shunting Data from the HDD (even SSD's) to the RAM/CPU/GPU etc is a pretty big bottleneck still. It needs vastly lower latency and vastly higher bandwidth, gotta feed the beasts and software is only part of the answer.

No CPU in the near future is going to fix that issue though.
3dxpoint for the upcoming kabylake is supposed to do just that,your ssd will be part of the sysram so no more copying required.
 

Xpage

Senior member
Jun 22, 2005
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www.riseofkingdoms.com
Being on a 2500k, and my daily use of it, I really don't see any need to upgrade until I start gaming again (not likely), or I get tired of my features on my motherboard, ie. needed a better interface for SSD upgrades.

I would probably be tempted with an edram L4 cache or some other upcoming non-volatile storage (ie. PCM), or a stacked HBM. I'll probably be set until Zen+ or intel's 8000 series.
 

itsmydamnation

Platinum Member
Feb 6, 2011
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for my server (8350) the best compromise between core count, core perf(oc included) and price which also supports iommu, thus waiting to see how zen plays out, otherwise prob look to second hand server market.

for my desktop (3770k @4.5), when i find something that doesn't run acceptably
for my laptop (4500u) probably when 180gb SSD becomes insufficient in terms of space.
 

ozzy702

Golden Member
Nov 1, 2011
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I'm on a 6700k @4.5ghz. I'll upgrade when I can get a hyperthreaded six core (or more) @ better than haswell IPC and easily hit 4.5ghz for ~ $325. Intel currently has the capability to make a killer 6+ core, edram, high clocks, cpu that would be killer for gaming but they don't have much motivation. I doubt we'll see anything from Intel or AMD that really fits the bill for 2+ years.

That being said, 2017 should provide the consumer with plenty of great options, just not ones that I'm willing to move to from my current setup.
 

simas

Senior member
Oct 16, 2005
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Double the performance at the same price level - I apply to the same rule to CPUs and GPUs.

in my case I bought 4C/8T i7-2600K for 279 from Microcenter in January 2011. I would like to get 2X either through 8 core CPU of equivalent performance, 4C/8T modern CPU in which each core is 2X IPC of SB, or some combination thereof. I think double performance exists (6800K? ) but it is not yet at the same price I would consider reasonable.

Similarly for GPU, I bought Nvidia 970 for $290 in November 2015. I think 2X performance is similarly available (8GB RAM 1080) but it is yet in crazy land price levels, so no rush to upgrade.
 

Ninjak

Member
Oct 6, 2006
25
16
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20% performance improvement over my 4790K, or 20% power efficiency improvement, or some combination of both. Alas, I don't think the 7700K will deliver (though I'm hoping).

Please Intel, give me a reason to give you my money.
 

CakeMonster

Golden Member
Nov 22, 2012
1,392
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20-30%-ish real performance.

On a 6700K now. I don't need more cores for the next 1-2 years, no matter what people say. What I need is actual performance. I'm not willing to compromise on clock speed and downgrade for most purposes in order to get at 6/8/10 core. Intel needs to improve IPC for me to go that route, whether its architecture, cache, or something else.
 

Unoid

Senior member
Dec 20, 2012
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I want 8 real cores with 50-75% more IPC than my 2600k and can clock the same. It's been 5+ years and intel can't even provide that.
 

arandomguy

Senior member
Sep 3, 2013
556
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Needs to have a price/perf increase over an i7-4790k enough to offset currency depreciation against the USD since 2014Q3/Q4.

What's interesting is in a lot of markets the 6700k has worse perf/price than the 4790k due to this issue. If we look at NYE: DXY the USD appreciated about 18.75% on average against most currencies since late 2014. This mean's we need a 18.75% perf increase over the 4790k while maintaining the same price just to have the same perf/price.
 

Phynaz

Lifer
Mar 13, 2006
10,140
819
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Interesting! Single thread performance or multi-thread?

Multi-threaded I would say, although I'm kinda on the fence. I have a not insignificant number of apps that are still performance constrained for a single thread. Also, my main CPU hog - video editing - isn't a hog anymore since I bought dedicated hardware.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,069
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Quoting DaPunisher from the Zen thread: It must be available.

I too upgrade when the new CPU is ~3x the speed at the same price. I also want something lower powered since my office has turned into an inferno when all computers are running. My main computer has a Core 2 Quad Q8300 processor (purchased in 2009). It is limping along but won't last too much longer. So, I'm ready to upgrade but I'm in no hurry.

The i5-6600 basically fits my needs: it is about 2x to 3x faster than my current CPU; it is the right price range; and it uses less power which would help me in several ways. But, I don't need it now and I just don't like buying a processor that is already a year old. So, I'm waiting for the Kaby Lake equivalent.

Basically, I want i5-level performance, 4 cores, 3.5 GHz base speed, and no more than 65 W TDP in a sub-$250 processor. I think that will be available early 2017. I'd buy it today if Intel would just launch it like they have launched so many processors in Sept/October of previous years.
 

fleshconsumed

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2002
6,483
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Eh, the CPU performance has been stagnant for the past 5 years. Last time I upgraded my platform was because I needed more ram and it was impossible to add more RAM into my old box. That was the main reason I made the jump from q9450/q9550 to 4770k/4790k. USB 3.0 support was also nice. I honestly expect that it's going to take me a long time to upgrade my Haswells to something newer, and if I do, it's not going to be because I need more CPU performance.
 

The Stilt

Golden Member
Dec 5, 2015
1,709
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Eh, the CPU performance has been stagnant for the past 5 years. Last time I upgraded my platform was because I needed more ram and it was impossible to add more RAM into my old box. That was the main reason I made the jump from q9450/q9550 to 4770k/4790k. USB 3.0 support was also nice. I honestly expect that it's going to take me a long time to upgrade my Haswells to something newer, and if I do, it's not going to be because I need more CPU performance.

Stagnant?

2600K vs. 6700K (636 vs. 919, +44.5% in Cinebench R15 MT)
3960X vs. 6950X (1101 vs. 1829, +66.1% in Cinebench R15 MT)
 

spat55

Senior member
Jul 2, 2013
539
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Stagnant?

2600K vs. 6700K (636 vs. 919, +44.5% in Cinebench R15 MT)
3960X vs. 6950X (1101 vs. 1829, +66.1% in Cinebench R15 MT)

I'd call that stagnant considering if you overclock the 2600k to Skylake level it reduces the gap by at least 15%, making it at best 30% extra IPC over 5 years. All Intel seem to do is overclock their CPU's to make up for not doing as much to make them faster, if you look at the i7 7700k it appears to be just overclocked to 4.5Ghz Turbo.
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
14,001
3,357
136
Stagnant?

2600K vs. 6700K (636 vs. 919, +44.5% in Cinebench R15 MT)
3960X vs. 6950X (1101 vs. 1829, +66.1% in Cinebench R15 MT)

Well,
2600K released in January 2011 for $317
6700K released in August 2015 for $350

If we take +44,4% (for the duration of 4.5 Years) increased performance in Cinebench , that means that we got less than 10% higher performance per year since Core i7 2600K release.

But if you take Core 2 Quad 9450 vs Core i7 920 vs Core i7 2600K

Cinebench 10 MT

Core 2 Quad 9450 Launched January 2008 CB 10 MT score 11741

Core i7 920 Launched November 2008 CB 10 MT score 16211 (+38% vs 9450)

Core i7 2600K Launched January 2011 CB 10 MT score 24933 (+53% vs 920)

In three(3) years we got +112% higher perf from Core 2 Quad 9450 to Core i7 2600K.

If Intel would continue like that, we would had 6-Core Mainstream ($300-350) CPUs back in 2015 and 8-Core in 2018.
 

Burpo

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2013
4,223
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Well,
2600K released in January 2011 for $317
6700K released in August 2015 for $350

If we take +44,4% (for the duration of 4.5 Years) increased performance in Cinebench , that means that we got less than 10% higher performance per year since Core i7 2600K release.

But if you take Core 2 Quad 9450 vs Core i7 920 vs Core i7 2600K

Cinebench 10 MT

Core 2 Quad 9450 Launched January 2008 CB 10 MT score 11741

Core i7 920 Launched November 2008 CB 10 MT score 16211 (+38% vs 9450)

Core i7 2600K Launched January 2011 CB 10 MT score 24933 (+53% vs 920)

In three(3) years we got +112% higher perf from Core 2 Quad 9450 to Core i7 2600K.

If Intel would continue like that, we would had 6-Core Mainstream ($300-350) CPUs back in 2015 and 8-Core in 2018.

Obviously that isn't possible. Intel gathered all the low hanging fruit by Sandybridge..
 

crashtech

Lifer
Jan 4, 2013
10,524
2,111
146
So additional cores do not result in any additional performance?
If you meant single threaded performance or IPC it would have been better to put it that way then.
I see your point, but still think most people would want an apples to apples comparison. Readers can decide for themselves now that it has been pointed out.
 

jhu

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
11,918
9
81
Increased performance/watt. That's why I got a phone with Cortex A53/A57 to replace the Krait 300-based phone.