What does Microsoft need to change before we buy Vista?

[MrChad]

Originally posted by: thestain
Just a thought, but.. all this DRM stuff and the alliances and the things done without the public really being informed.. isn't this to protect the most lucrative areas of business, and not the blue collar crowd? Sense when does "The Terminator" or the like need protection?

We are just the little guys. At least most of us.

It is time to have the United States return to a Representative Government it is supposed to function as in a Republic or Democracy.

Capitalism without a Government looking out for the little guy is no better than other forms of Government..

Maybe we are not all Republicans, or Democrats, but maybe as littel guys we can be Republicrats or Democlicans and work together to end this Tyranny called DCMA and DRM and.. aided and abetted by the likes of Microsoft, Sony and now with laws on their side.. almost all companies out of fear of reprisal are now on board.

The Stain

As much as I hate the DMCA, a proper government should protect the rights of both businesses and consumers.

And remember, you as the consumer / little guy / whatever-you-want-to-call-yourself have the ultimate power : the dollars in your pocket. If you choose not to purchase these new technologies, media companies WILL get the message. I suspect that there will be significant consumer backlash against draconian copy protection schemes as they become more commonplace.

 

[drag]

Stoplights last for seconds. But the obligation to stop and wait at stoplights lasts for a lifetime. And I thought you just said copyrights only last 20 years, if we want to be accurate here

Na, he said it _should_ last about 20 years. I think originally copyrights in the US were designed to last 28 years, then it had to be registered for a extension. At least it was like that for a long time. In 1978 it was bumped up to automaticly be life of the author + 70 years.

It depends when the work was originally made. It's very confusing when you get into it.

It appears to me that the "traffic lights" of rights management are paving the way for download-on-demand movies and other benefits that people will be willing to endure a certain amount of discipline to obtain in the future.

It's was already illegal to violate copyrights before DRM. And this stuff isn't about protecting copyrights.. That's a BS excuse. Plain and simple. It's there to make it sound good, sound acceptable and hide it's true intentions.

Anyways drawing a analogy between traffic lights and things like the DMCA is silly.

Traffic lights are designed for public safty. To make it easier to negotiate the roads in a car without killing somebody. How you can draw a parrallel between that and government-protected but fundamentally flawed encryption scemes is beyond me.

Anyways violating copyrights is already illegal. There are plenty of reasons to shutdown pirates without crippling my hardware.

And remember, you as the consumer / little guy / whatever-you-want-to-call-yourself have the ultimate power : the dollars in your pocket. If you choose not to purchase these new technologies, media companies WILL get the message. I suspect that there will be significant consumer backlash against draconian copy protection schemes as they become more commonplace.

Absolutely.

Personally I don't give a crap what Microsoft does with this or that software. It doesn't affect me because I don't use that stuff and there are always ways around such pointless restrictions.

The trouble happens is when you get the government involved. Now when I don't obey the corporations I could end up going to jail and that irritates the hell out of me.

 

[bersl2]

Originally posted by: mechBgon

Stoplights last seconds; copyrights last lifetimes.

Stoplights last for seconds. But the obligation to stop and wait at stoplights lasts for a lifetime.

Individual stoplights and copyrights last for (supposedly) a limited time, but the laws themselves are timeless, unless a clause puts some kind of self-imposed limit on it (e.g., the PATRIOT Act expires every so often---but that is a completely different discussion ). And strictly speaking, one is under no obligation to follow the law if one does not consider following the law (or in this case, a specific law) to be an obligation; thus, the supposed obligation is reduced to the risk of having to pay the consequences.

And I thought you just said copyrights only last 20 years, if we want to be accurate here

It is correct that, based on the grammar, I said something that implies that such a thing is a present fact, as opposed to a past fact or present contrary-to-fact. 20 years is approximately what it used to be in the old US system, which is no longer practiced.

HAPPY NOW?!

The benefit of our transportation system makes the obligations worthwhile to nearly everyone. The ability to drive from Washington to California in one day, in air-conditioned comfort, listening to your favorite tunes, going through drive-throughs for a snack, using a virtually flawless, carefully-engineered road...? Whoa. :Q To our forefathers, this would sound like owning a personal spacecraft would sound today to us. The discipline of "the system" has endowed you with incredible freedoms and opportunities.

Wow, nice non-sequitur. The rules of the road have nothing to do with the material comforts you list, which could just as easily have come into existence in a virtually ruleless traffic environment. Or would you like to discuss this point further?

It appears to me that the "traffic lights" of rights management are paving the way for download-on-demand movies and other benefits that people will be willing to endure a certain amount of discipline to obtain in the future.

[will finish post tomorrow(?)]

 

[drag]

As far as on-demand stuff goes I think DRM is going to hurt it more then anything else.

For that stuff to succeed is has to be easier and simplier then piracy.. It's very simple.

So say I am a 'content provider' and I want to sell TV shows. I like the idea of controlling what programs a person can use to watch my stuff, controlling how many times they can watch it, put a time limit on what date their operating system will then refuse to playback the content and that sort of thing witch DRM is specificly designed to provide. Basicly whole point of DRM.

So my customers have 3 choices:
A. Give me money in exchange for my content and get restrictions on what players they can use, how often they can watch it, how long they have to watch it, what devices they are allowed to use it on, etc etc.

B. Download a cracked version. (the average time it takes for a song to show up on itunes till it shows up on edonkey or kazza or whatever is 130 seconds.. Not even long enough to get it burned to a cdrom). They can watch it how many times they want to. They can keep it for as long as they want. They can use any program that they want. They can use any device that they want and they don't have to pay jack to get it.

C. Ignore me and go do something else. (my personal preference)

So how is that for encouraging discipline?

 

[n0cmonkey]

This is my last post in the thread. I'm not a Microsoft, big business, or mass media corporation apologist, and I think plenty of you know that.

Microsoft isn't at fault (with regards to DRM), they're giving people what they want: the ability to view the content. It's the content providers that demand the DRM, and the people that purchase the DRMed content.

There are a lot of bands, movie makers, and writers out there looking for people to listen or watch or read. They want to create, and do it fairly for everyone. Too bad people are too hung up on the latest Jay-Z cd to give a ******.

 

[thestain]

Just an idea, but how about a warning label being required for all Control Platform Alliance software and hardware?

Summary -short winded portion

With the ability of this sort of technological platform in software and hardware to control end user devices to extent all content on an end users machine could be reduced in quality, limited in what it can be used for and with options to reduce the resolution it can be viewed at and even deleted at the whim of the new control platform, wouldn't this warrant at least a warning label? Think about it.. the code is known to some insiders already.. has been cracked overseas and if this gets into the wrong hands, of either hackers inside or out of the Controlling Platform Alliance, what then?

This is not and never has been about DRM. DRM is simply the excuse Microsoft, Intel and the rest of the monopolistic empowered, big brother gang is using to get this software and hardware control program through, a program that intends to vest control with them and divide end users into groups, one that they control completely and where they need to be "trusted" by end users of tech not to abuse such potential control and the group that for whatever reason is beyond their complete control and therefore "not trusted". Simple Divide and Conquer is what is going on here.

What Does Microsoft have to change? A lot!!


Rant - Long Winded portion

This is for those with opinion of.. "Can't you find something to post about that you have some depth of knowledge on? Small appliances or snowboard bindings or something? I'm not a mean person really, but it sure is annoying to have people running around doing a Chicken Little act over normal, beneficial advances in technology."

Is that all this is? Normal, beneficial advances in technology? Are you sure? Try to stop seeing this bad tech through rose colored Windows, ok?


The possibilities of a trusted platform are not limited only to the computer - all modern form of communication could also be included. The TCG vision encompasses mobile telephones and PDAs, as well as input devices, storage devices/volumes and certificates. Security-related hardware such as fingerprint readers and iris scanners can also be vested with the Control Platform Modules, implemented through "trusted" hardware and software.
If you follow this to the logical conclusion, the kind of Control spoken of in the Bible where in the last days we can't buy or sell without the mark is looking as if it is getting closer and closer with this kind of technology. In regard to Vista this has become a bigger issue than DRM at least to me.

DRM. with its task is to prevent content - usually movies and music, but also text such as PDF files - from being used or duplicated without the consent of the copyright owner is just one of several things that these "trusted Module Platfforms" can do.

While discussion is out there and Microsoft has documents on its own website helping implement "trustworthy" computing, there has been little effort to communicate to us and to fully disclose to the public just what is being brewed here. Think how compliance with this is one of the real requirements of Premium Vista, yet it does not make the short list of published requirements.. you have to dig deeper under premium vista and aero to find it. I think if there was a surgeon general of tech, he or she might say or inform the gerneral public that its rights are being potentially compromised once again by big companies. Microsoft really should be required to have a label on all its software and its allies against humanity should also have to have warning labels on their products, imo so that people can better make decsions.. and it should not be hidden in EULA's but spelled out up front.. what you are paying for is a contolled license to use tech that will remain uder the control, monitoring and supervision of your new masters, the Control Platform Alliance.

It is amazing that Sony, who showed a general disdain for our rights and freedoms over our PC's with its malware last October and Microsoft who fresh after getting off easy in the Anti-trust settlements against it are both ruling members of this Alliance and we are supposed to yield to their "trusting" us?

How can Microsoft and Intel, once so criticized for Palladium platform be so free to cook up yet another with virtually no opposition and actually the help of US lawmakers, who have almost made it a crime to oppose this new platform? Power? Corruption??

The latest efforts are being redone by Microsoft under the term "Next Generation Secure Computing Base" (NGSCB). At the end of the day this, however, is nothing more than something old being made to look new...

So... are you ready to buy Vista? Did you know Many of Microsofts products and even some Linux products have been capable of implementing and enabling this kind of technology for a whille now and perhaps since the DCMA was passed before this new Millenium began, maybe Microsoft has simply been waiting for an opportune time to spring this on the public? Maybe it is building a coalition of Government and Industry that will be so strong, people will not have any choice but to be a part of this because the very platform seeks to divide most people into two camps.. those that have their technology fully possessed with the embedded platforms and also run with the trusted operating systems that choose to be trusted and.. all others who could be considered outside and looking in..

This is far reaching stuff.. tiny Via has been coerced to comply along with many other less powerful companies.. are there benefits.. of course, but at what price??

and. after the delays in performance gains as this group put this platform in... now we will see a nice jump in performance and in eye candy with Conroe and with HD content... and the question is.. is this chocolate covered tech pill worth the buying considering the embedded platforms and loss of ownership rights over what goes on in equipment we are using really worth it for us to buy it?

Considering how much real control Microsfot is capable of anyway.. it would be nice if they got rid fo the divide people into two camps to conquer them mentality and gave ownership and control over the embedded tech back to end users, in order to make this new tech and Vista worthy of our buying it.

Rant.. Is any of this technology really worth our buying and buying into?

 

[mechBgon]

drag, if it's really the way you portray, then it begs the question of why the music/movie industry is bothering with all this.

The rules of the road have nothing to do with the material comforts you list, which could just as easily have come into existence in a virtually ruleless traffic environment.

The point remains: if you want to enjoy the benefits, you're obliged to heed the rules. And for most people, that's an arrangement they at least pay lip service to, in regards to road usage. In the case of the music/movie industry, the market will answer the question of whether or not enforced protection is a viable approach. If you have a better solution, then by all means get some capital, and put it out there and show 'em how it's done.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Ok, I guess I lied. I have a question:
What action has this Trusted Computing technology prevented you to do?

 

[mechBgon]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
Ok, I guess I lied. I have a question:
What action has this Trusted Computing technology prevented you to do?

Well, NX-bit support, if fully enabled on WinXP SP2, prevented people from successfully infecting their Windows PCs with the WMF Exploit and its typical payloads. This deprived people of the freedom to enjoy SpyAxe infections and possibly even free pr0n popups. An outrage! :|

 

[drag]

drag, if it's really the way you portray, then it begs the question of why the music/movie industry is bothering with all this.

They are just confused and greedy. Most of them have no clue about how the internet works or digital media or anything like that. They are just scared and have a lot of money and a lot of political cloat.

This is my last post in the thread. I'm not a Microsoft, big business, or mass media corporation apologist, and I think plenty of you know that.

Microsoft isn't at fault (with regards to DRM), they're giving people what they want: the ability to view the content. It's the content providers that demand the DRM, and the people that purchase the DRMed content.

Your right. Microsoft is more of a facilitator then a starter.. but you have to realise that they are trying to push this stuff also in order to make things like the Media Center more attractive and also get some nice lock in. If you think Office formats are bad, just imagine every individual having hundreds of dollars invested into DRM encrusted WMV9 stuff. It's a race by Intel and friends to get the fabled 'multimedia pc' a reality. Make that stuff the center of your living room.

The only way this stuff is going to work effectively is if these people (media folks) look to let go a little bit.
Most of my lifetime I never had to pay to watch TV. I'd watch movies, news, sitcoms, and all sorts of educational stuff without having to worry about it. Also when I got a VCR I could record anything, anytime, skip over the commercials and all that stuff.

Now remember my Piracy vs DRM'd content scenerio above. Now this is Piracy vs Open Content.

Say now I am a big media mogel. I decide to go the otherway and open content. I decide to to work with the DSL companies and other ISPs to setup my stuff to be transmitted locally to people's homes on local fiber loops. The ISPs would store my media content on servers. This would lower the cost of having to transmit this stuff, no need to have fat backbones to stream HD content to people. ISPs costs would be covered by subscription rates, similar to how cable tv works now. I would make my money via advertisements and partially of the subscription rates.. People could easily order what shows or what channels and movies they want to watch.

So, also this is key, the ISPs have a financial incentive to help me STOP piracy. Right now piracy helps convince people to get all these high speed internet stuff. So ISPs are generally on the side of pirates and protect the users and such from prosicution. Now though since they have a financial stake in stopping piracy they would be much much more helpfull in closing down warez and kicking the worst copyright violators off of the internet.

So users have 3 choices:
A. When they buy their internet lines and subscribe to high speed internet then can pay a additional subscription cost and get all the movies and the sort of tv shows they want to watch at any time. Any of my movies, any of my music, or TV at a press of a button. A few _tastefull_ and short advertisements here and there (google has proven that this is effective) and that's about it. Any movie, any tv show, any music at any time. The price for all this is about what the average person would spend on it in a month anyways using 'old fasion' stuff. The streaming video and such is instantanious, no having to wait for it to download or anything like that.

B. Spend all day going around on the internet trolling for what they want. They risk getting kicked off by their ISP. They need to buy all these fat harddrives and maintain all this stuff to store what they download so that they can watch it back. They have to deal with viruses, and spyware, and other nasty things. They don't get access to the latest stuff and have to wait after everybody else to watch new shows. And they generally look like a-holes.

C. Ignore it all and go do something else.

And there are probably many other ways to do this sort of thing. This is just one way that I think it would work out very nicely.

 

[thestain]

Microsoft is a lot more than a facilitator.

They are on the ruling committee... they go to all members and make sure they put the embedded platforms in their products correctly..

They want this badly.

It could mean World Domination and the entire world having to bow to King Bill and pay him lots of money to rent technology we will not be permitted to have ownership rights on and maybe Bill could still become a Trillionaire and use these funds to advance his causes that he thinks will make the planet a better place, like somehow getting rid of the people that he does not value and clutter and crowd this planet too much for his and Melinda and Warren and Ted's taste.

At least the EU is for some semblance of free markets

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=3147

Go EU, Go EU!

The Stain

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: thestain
Microsoft is a lot more than a facilitator.

They are on the ruling committee... they go to all members and make sure they put the embedded platforms in their products correctly..

They want this badly.

It could mean World Domination and the entire world having to bow to King Bill and pay him lots of money to rent technology we will not be permitted to have ownership rights on and maybe Bill could still become a Trillionaire and use these funds to advance his causes that he thinks will make the planet a better place, like somehow getting rid of the people that he does not value and clutter and crowd this planet too much for his and Melinda and Warren and Ted's taste.

At least the EU is for some semblance of free markets

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=3147

Go EU, Go EU!

The Stain

What action has this Trusted Computing technology prevented you from doing?

 

[n0cmonkey]

What action has this Trusted Computing technology prevented you from doing?
What action has this Trusted Computing technology prevented you from doing?
What action has this Trusted Computing technology prevented you from doing?
What action has this Trusted Computing technology prevented you from doing?
What action has this Trusted Computing technology prevented you from doing?
What action has this Trusted Computing technology prevented you from doing?
What action has this Trusted Computing technology prevented you from doing?

 

[wiin]

Microsoft need to get rid of the intergrated search engine and tabs. Both are of no benefits and taking up real estate. Microsoft should replace them with a program that prevent keylogging, for example.

 

[stash]

Originally posted by: wiin
Microsoft need to get rid of the intergrated search engine and tabs. Both are of no benefits and taking up real estate. Microsoft should replace them with a program that prevent keylogging, for example.

OK, none of this makes any sense whatsoever.

Integrated search is not useful?

If you don't like tabs, turn them off.

Vista has Windows Defender integrated. Along with UAC, this should help prevent things like keyloggers from being installed (unless they are hardware based, there's nothing you can do about that).

x64 versions have technology to prevent rootkits as well.

 

[thestain]

What action has this Trusted Computing technology prevented you from doing?

What the Trusted tEchnology has prevented me or you or anyone from doing yet is NOT the issue.. the concerns I have expressed are for the future.. What the Trusted, or "trustworthy" as Microsoft likes to call it Computing Platform Alliance has planned for you and for me!

and more importantly for them.

but in regards to the past and present, there is the promise of future actions and that issue of Sony, a trusted Computing Platform leader using the software as designed by Microsoft for its partners in the Alliance to use, to cause a little damage to a few computers and I have read a story or two of people who speak out against certain govenments, like in China having their documents blacklisted and/or deleted through the enablement of this platform on a limited basis... not sure if its true.. but it could be.

The whole Trusted Platform thing in its current form is new.. but this has been underway for 6-7 years, under different names and with different stated objectives.

Here are some goals it has accomplished or could soon accomplish going from a few years back to a few years from now.

1) Get Legislation passed that makes it hard for any individual or company to compy with the laws of the land and not comply with Microsoft and its trusted Alliance Cartel. The Digital Millenium Copyright Act was passed before the year 2000, and this and like legislaton was needed by Microsoft and Intel and Sony to bully other companies into going along.

2) Change the basics of how software and hardware are made to make way for the "trusted Platform" This was done in Software level with change from Windows 2K to Windows XP, 2K and prior OS's would need to be over 60% overhauled to implement trusted computing platforms and this is why 2K did not get similar security updates that Windows XP got with SP2.

3) Attempt to get the "Fritz" chips in everything, beginning with TV's.. through Intel's HDCP initiative.. this started way back.. but is just about in all new HDTV's that have been made the past few years.

4) Get all component functions in PC divided and segregated and to to this use Trusted hardware platforms on motherboards, on Graphics cards, preferably into the GPU itself, managing the bus and hypertransport links, etc.. and into CPU's.

LaGrande tech has been in Intel CPU's since Pentium D, AMD put a few things in, but did not fully support the Trusted Platform until the move to AM2 and note the size increase in the AM2 socket cpus compared to the Socket 939 of the same model.. this is to support Presidio, Pacifica and Virtualization, that AMD labels the Trinity.. these three are very closely linked to the Trusted Platform Modules..

This has all been done in the name of security and DRM, but now the laws are in place that it is a crime to disable it, the hardware is now here.. and Microsoft OS's including Windows 2003 for Servers and Windows XP were designed to be compatible with this and with SP2 XP Pro put the software into place.. Novell is a "trusted" member and Suse has the tech in the software, as do a few other linux companies.

So.. has all of this stopped anyting yet.. yes. Think China.. think Sony..

These platforms have been used.. but..

Just wait until ..

Step 5) Microsoft and its "trusted" allies enable more and more features of this tech.. intially this will start by enbabling the "beneficial" aspects, but the control issues will be introduced eventually, maybe even hand in hand with the good?

With the change in platforms, control is and will be moved from the end user to the big trusted computing companies. How long until they Limit our choices, as they continue to translate us from owners to end users to with little or no objections from the Governing Authorities?

Next step) Divide end users into two camps, those with fully functional embedded software and hardware and those without

(This is promise of step that got my attention to begin with) Begin to limit enjoyment of tech to those not fully compliant and also making decison to stay, "trusted" Anyone else heard that our HDTV or HDMonitor resolution coudl be downgraded to 25% of what it otherwise would be if.. any of our components from DSL/Cable connection to TV/Monitor are not in full compiance or perhaps.. we will get messages like a few beta testers of Vista got that Output to TV is not permitted during operation of DVD player.. ??

Other Steps

Microsoft and other "Trusted" Plaform companies could Begin to make competitive products incompatible or not "trustworthy" and bombard users with malware and spyware and viruses that only embedded, lower than blue pill defenses could protect us against.

Or..Limit communications between "trusted" and "not trusted" systems.

Future developments..

Bring this control to all communications devices, like phones and cell phones, etc..

Raise prices?? Maybe.. Microsoft will begin to charge.. say $25 per month to use its OS??

Control more and more buy and sell transactions and where possible redefine as subscription and licensed, not sale transactions.

Could this be going in this direction??

It appears it is to me. Hence the concern.. So.. has it prevented anything yet.. not much if anything has been prevented yet.. but.. what about the future.. if we see the foundation for a building is being laid.. it is a good bet that a building is going to be built.. well.. there is one "hell" of a foundation being laid here... something big is going to be built on it.. and.. as nice as the little security features and other promises might be.. compared to the insides, to the foundations.. to what is planned to be built.. could it be that many of us will be swallowing a chocolate covered blue pill of sorts from the Gang of the Trusted Computing Platform Alliance??

The Stain

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: thestain
What action has this Trusted Computing technology prevented you from doing?

What the Trusted tEchnology has prevented me or you or anyone from doing yet is NOT the issue.. the concerns I have expressed are for the future.. What the Trusted, or "trustworthy" as Microsoft likes to call it Computing Platform Alliance has planned for you and for me!

and more importantly for them.

The choice to have a potentially more secure computer? The choice to view content?

but in regards to the past and present, there is the promise of future actions and that issue of Sony, a trusted Computing Platform leader using the software as designed by Microsoft for its partners in the Alliance to use, to cause a little damage to a few computers and I have read a story or two of people who speak out against certain govenments, like in China having their documents blacklisted and/or deleted through the enablement of this platform on a limited basis... not sure if its true.. but it could be.

Find out, and post it if it is.

The whole Trusted Platform thing in its current form is new.. but this has been underway for 6-7 years, under different names and with different stated objectives.

Here are some goals it has accomplished or could soon accomplish going from a few years back to a few years from now.

1) Get Legislation passed that makes it hard for any individual or company to compy with the laws of the land and not comply with Microsoft and its trusted Alliance Cartel. The Digital Millenium Copyright Act was passed before the year 2000, and this and like legislaton was needed by Microsoft and Intel and Sony to bully other companies into going along.

The DMCA has little to do with TC, and probably wouldn't stand up in court in a number of situations.

2) Change the basics of how software and hardware are made to make way for the "trusted Platform" This was done in Software level with change from Windows 2K to Windows XP, 2K and prior OS's would need to be over 60% overhauled to implement trusted computing platforms and this is why 2K did not get similar security updates that Windows XP got with SP2.

What security updates in XP sp2 were bad?

3) Attempt to get the "Fritz" chips in everything, beginning with TV's.. through Intel's HDCP initiative.. this started way back.. but is just about in all new HDTV's that have been made the past few years.

So don't get an HDTV.

4) Get all component functions in PC divided and segregated and to to this use Trusted hardware platforms on motherboards, on Graphics cards, preferably into the GPU itself, managing the bus and hypertransport links, etc.. and into CPU's.

Support the open graphics card.

LaGrande tech has been in Intel CPU's since Pentium D, AMD put a few things in, but did not fully support the Trusted Platform until the move to AM2 and note the size increase in the AM2 socket cpus compared to the Socket 939 of the same model.. this is to support Presidio, Pacifica and Virtualization, that AMD labels the Trinity.. these three are very closely linked to the Trusted Platform Modules..

Isn't Pacifica the virtualization codename? What's bad about virtualization?

This has all been done in the name of security and DRM, but now the laws are in place that it is a crime to disable it,

What laws specifically cover an end-user disabling trusted computing components on his or her machine or using software that is not TC aware?

the hardware is now here.. and Microsoft OS's including Windows 2003 for Servers and Windows XP were designed to be compatible with this and with SP2 XP Pro put the software into place..

What parts of sp2 specifically were put in place for trusted computing?

Novell is a "trusted" member and Suse has the tech in the software, as do a few other linux companies.

Good for them. It could help their security record.

So.. has all of this stopped anyting yet.. yes. Think China.. think Sony..

I'm not following. What trusted computing stuff did Sony put out? If you're talking about that rootkit fiasco, I think you're way off base. Links to what China is doing with TC?

These platforms have been used.. but..

Just wait until ..

We all slip down that slope?

Step 5) Microsoft and its "trusted" allies enable more and more features of this tech.. intially this will start by enbabling the "beneficial" aspects, but the control issues will be introduced eventually, maybe even hand in hand with the good?

With the change in platforms, control is and will be moved from the end user to the big trusted computing companies. How long until they Limit our choices, as they continue to translate us from owners to end users to with little or no objections from the Governing Authorities?

We are end users. We have been since we decided to buy components instead of creating them. We own the hardware in a relatively loose sense (we can't know how it works or how to interface with it at a low level, but we can destroy it or use it to our hearts content).

Next step) Divide end users into two camps, those with fully functional embedded software and hardware and those without

(This is promise of step that got my attention to begin with) Begin to limit enjoyment of tech to those not fully compliant and also making decison to stay, "trusted" Anyone else heard that our HDTV or HDMonitor resolution coudl be downgraded to 25% of what it otherwise would be if.. any of our components from DSL/Cable connection to TV/Monitor are not in full compiance or perhaps.. we will get messages like a few beta testers of Vista got that Output to TV is not permitted during operation of DVD player.. ??

And if the companies that put out this content want to limit who can use it, why shouldn't they be able to? You have the choice to avoid such content, just like you have the choice to not listen to Britney Spears now.

Other Steps

Microsoft and other "Trusted" Plaform companies could Begin to make competitive products incompatible or not "trustworthy" and bombard users with malware and spyware and viruses that only embedded, lower than blue pill defenses could protect us against.

What does Viagra have to do with TC?

Or..Limit communications between "trusted" and "not trusted" systems.

Which could help businesses.

Future developments..

Bring this control to all communications devices, like phones and cell phones, etc..

I still don't see "teh evil."

Raise prices?? Maybe.. Microsoft will begin to charge.. say $25 per month to use its OS??

There have been rumors of Microsoft switching to a subscription based model for YEARS now. That doesn't mean anything.

Control more and more buy and sell transactions and where possible redefine as subscription and licensed, not sale transactions.

When you buy Microsoft products now you get less than most people think you do.

Could this be going in this direction??

It appears it is to me. Hence the concern.. So.. has it prevented anything yet.. not much if anything has been prevented yet.. but.. what about the future.. if we see the foundation for a building is being laid.. it is a good bet that a building is going to be built.. well.. there is one "hell" of a foundation being laid here... something big is going to be built on it.. and.. as nice as the little security features and other promises might be.. compared to the insides, to the foundations.. to what is planned to be built.. could it be that many of us will be swallowing a chocolate covered blue pill of sorts from the Gang of the Trusted Computing Platform Alliance??

Again, what does Viagra have to do with this? Are you misinterpretting the idea of a hardened system?

There is good and bad potential in Trusted Computing. As long as consumers have a choice the good will outweigh the bad.

 

[mechBgon]

Again, what does Viagra have to do with this? Are you misinterpretting the idea of a hardened system?

LOL!

 

[thestain]

Heck I don't know... LOL

I have read so much lately.. mye eyes are starting to get that glazed over look..

No more links for now.. just future possibilities.. maybe someone else can google em up.

Here is something I read on what M$ has been doing.

"Over the last 4 years, M$ has been working with the government to create a highly secure system, the project was/is called Palladium. http://www.epic.org/privacy/consumer/microsoft/palladium.html has info on what it's about. One of the goals was to make software licenses tied to hardware IDs, so that M$ could make an OS for example that only works for certain IDs and prevent pirated software from running at all.

Tie it to DRM controls and you can have software which prevents you from even loading an app to copy your movie/music/anything while that data is in memory. A new app comes out to rip files? M$ finds out and hotfixes the OS to prevent it. You try to prevent hotfixes? Part of the OS which will force you to, or have your license revoked and the OS stops working.

The "I Accept" button is now the power switch to the electric chair your personal freedoms are sitting in."

We need alternatives. Hopefully, maybe through the EU's efforts to keep Microsoft in check, some other os will emerge that does not seek complete last word authority over our pcs.



The Stain

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: thestain
Heck I don't know... LOL

I have read so much lately.. mye eyes are starting to get that glazed over look..

No more links for now.. just future possibilities.. maybe someone else can google em up.

The following is from a reply to a similar subject in the silent pc forums.

"Over the last 4 years, M$ has been working with the government to create a highly secure system, the project was/is called Palladium. http://www.epic.org/privacy/consumer/microsoft/palladium.html has info on what it's about. One of the goals was to make software licenses tied to hardware IDs, so that M$ could make an OS for example that only works for certain IDs and prevent pirated software from running at all.

Tie it to DRM controls and you can have software which prevents you from even loading an app to copy your movie/music/anything while that data is in memory. A new app comes out to rip files? M$ finds out and hotfixes the OS to prevent it. You try to prevent hotfixes? Part of the OS which will force you to, or have your license revoked and the OS stops working.

The "I Accept" button is now the power switch to the electric chair your personal freedoms are sitting in."

We need alternatives. Hopefully, maybe through the EU's efforts to keep Microsoft in check, some other os will emerge that does not seek complete last word authority over our pcs.



The Stain

Other OSes: Linux, Solaris, OpenBSD, NetBSD, FreeBSD, DragonflyBSD, reactos, Plan 9, Theta, Mac OS X, Darwin, Irix, RiscOS, Sophos. Just a few. Join one and make it better.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: thestain
The "I Accept" button is now the power switch to the electric chair your personal freedoms are sitting in."

I like that.. very poignant.