What does it take to push WP7?

[dagamer34]

None of this matters when you can almost never find a working demo to actually play around with. When there's 10 Android phones and WP7 phone in the Verizon store to look at, it doesn't take a genius to figure out why the WP7 phone isn't selling.

Because sales reps are spec whores at worse and misinformed at best, I don't see Windows Phone truly picking up steam until it can match the best specs out there for your high-end Android phones. And that means 720p screens, LTE, NFC, dual-core CPU, and a better GPU. Then it'll be a real contender.

 

[Pretty Cool]

It is hard to sell phones when you let everybody uses MS as the butt of their jokes. I can make up stuff saying how bad MS is on any subject and people will believe me. It ain't the LTE thing either because Apple's phone is not LTE either. The general public is almost never critical of Apple no matter what. Quite the opposite actually. Same thing goes for Google. It is not like the Apple fanbois are never going to buy a WP7 device, and neither will Linux fanatics or anybody else who hates or makes fun of MS.

I am not kidding either. If I say that I use IE, people will mock me or say I am a newbie. No matter how good WP7 is, MS is going to have to convince at least some people to dislike Iphone and Android. If MS is not going to even fight for their own products, then they should forget the whole thing.

 

[TheStu]

It is hard to sell phones when you let everybody uses MS as the butt of their jokes. I can make up stuff saying how bad MS is on any subject and people will believe me. It ain't the LTE thing either because Apple's phone is not LTE either. The general public is almost never critical of Apple no matter what. Quite the opposite actually. Same thing goes for Google. It is not like the Apple fanbois are never going to buy a WP7 device, and neither will Linux fanatics or anybody else who hates or makes fun of MS.

I am not kidding either. If I say that I use IE, people will mock me or say I am a newbie. No matter how good WP7 is, MS is going to have to convince at least some people to dislike Iphone and Android. If MS is not going to even fight for their own products, then they should forget the whole thing.

You don't have to dislike iOS or Android (though i am not crazy about Android 2.x. Haven't tried 4.x yet) to like and want WP7. I had an iPhone for about 6 months or so before I got my Surround, and I really liked it. I have a MacBook Air and dualboot OS X and Win8 on my desktop. My current iPod is my 4th or 5th one, and I am planning on getting an AppleTV in a week or so.

The biggest advantage (as I see it) that Android has is customization, at every level. The OEMs can customize the OS with skins and their own apps, the carriers can do that as well, and of course all the stuff the user can do. iOS has the largest app store and the most tightly integrated ecosystem. Apple devices are increasingly become voltron like, and I think you know what I mean there.

MS is still a ways behind on that. They have 2 different MS made media players. Media Player and Zune. And you can only use one of those to sync your device. However, you need the other one to stream music from one computer to any others that you have. Except that MP cannot read ZunePass files only PlaysForSure files, which of course the Zune software cannot read.

You can only get ZunePass stuff on your XBox if you have XBox Live Gold, which costs money. Oh by the way, you are also paying for the ZunePass. You cannot control your actively playing Zune client on your desktop with your phone, there is no way to stream anything from the phone to the XBox.

I could go on, but you get the idea. They need tighter integration between all their disparate products. They are all unifying on a single UI paradigm with the live tiles of Metro, but that is mostly superficial at this point, I want an ecosystem.

 

[Bateluer]

Heh, ditching Metro and using a good UI would be a better. LTE, 720p screens, better hardware, etc are all good and essential, but that shitty Metro UI ruins it. Its gotta go.

 

[TheStu]

Heh, ditching Metro and using a good UI would be a better. LTE, 720p screens, better hardware, etc are all good and essential, but that shitty Metro UI ruins it. Its gotta go.

You think it is bad, but it is not universally derided. There are also still people that think that all GUIs are the work of the devil too, should we revert back to CLI for all things?

I really like the design language and typography of the system, I think that it is a very interesting and original take on the concept.

I also disagree that the specs need to be increased just for the sake of an increase. The devices work really well (have you used one for any amount of time?) and so dropping in a dual core just to say 'dual core inside!' or upping to 1GB RAM or anything like that, just to match the leading devices is silly. Some specs and things should be focused on and improved, better cameras for example, but my phone runs great on the existing 1GHz single core, 512MB RAM.

LTE... I don't quite understand the point yet. Isn't HSPDA+ (or whatever) already at like 14Mb/s down as it is? How much bandwidth do you need on any mobile device? Particularly one like WP7 or iOS where it isn't like you can't download any old file you want. You may say streaming, but I have streamed movies on netflix over 3G and after an initial couple minutes of low-res-ness it bumps to a nice clear stream. 4G chips still consume too much power and are still too large. Why do you think that the Lumia 900, which offers only a FFC and LTE over the Lumia 800, is significantly larger than the Lumia 800? Because Nokia wants to emulate Moto/Samsung/HTC and hit every conceivable .x" screen size? No, it is because the 4G chip, which is a separate chip, is so physically large that it requires a larger phone just to fit (so that way you can also cram in the necessary larger battery).

 

[soccerballtux]

I think this is dumb on Verizon's part imho, most of the country still can't even get LTE service. They should have got one just to to have a WP7 device. The iPhone 4S doesn't have LTE and it was by far their best selling handset for 2011. The proves that most people don't care about LTE, even if it's available in their area.

200million have LTE coverage, that's nothing to sneeze at though.
Most that buy an iPhone get it on AT&Ts network because of not having 4G.

I fully understand why WP7 doesn't sell. It's boring. When you look at a couple of sqaures on the screen, versus having wallpapers, app icons, widgets ect, it really sucks when messing with it at the store. You can't do anything with the phones in the store anyways, so being able to flip through home screens and app drawers makes the Androids look better. and Apple sells because of name before OS apperance.

yeah I took a look at the UI and was like...wait...ok...what can I do with this again?
I think a lot of people won't hate android as much when they get to dual core with 1GB of RAM. I came from an OGDroid and was hating android, now it's not such a big deal that I've got an Atrix4g.

 

[gorcorps]

Someone internally should leak a WP7 to the android community and see if someone can get it running on a popular Android phone. I would really like to try out WP7 for an extended period, but am not going to pay for that gamble. Their little browser based demo was a good start, but it just doesn't tell me if I'd like it or not.

 

[the DRIZZLE]

I think this is dumb on Verizon's part imho, most of the country still can't even get LTE service. They should have got one just to to have a WP7 device. The iPhone 4S doesn't have LTE and it was by far their best selling handset for 2011. The proves that most people don't care about LTE, even if it's available in their area.

Verizon want's to get everyone on LTE and eventually voice over LTE in the next few years. They will then start shutting down the older networks. The longer they allow new activations without LTE the longer they will have to keep the 3g network online in the future.

 

[EightySix Four]

Someone internally should leak a WP7 to the android community and see if someone can get it running on a popular Android phone. I would really like to try out WP7 for an extended period, but am not going to pay for that gamble. Their little browser based demo was a good start, but it just doesn't tell me if I'd like it or not.

WP7 has very specific hardware drivers and very very few Android phones have similar enough hardware.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

WP7 has very specific hardware drivers and very very few Android phones have similar enough hardware.

Actually there are millions of old HTC phones like the Nexus 1, Desire, Desire HD, and Incredible that have the appropriate Qualcomm SoC's for WP7.

I think the problem with WP7 is it's basically an example of a closed platform gone wrong. Android's openness allows it to quickly adopt the latest technology and Apple has always made sure their hardware is competitive with what the top Android phones have. In contrast Microsoft is holding back it's OEMs and ensuring they can't compete with iOS or Android by limiting them to low resolution screens and outdated hardware.

Plus many WP7 devices aren't priced like budget hardware even though the should be, the HTC Titan is $200 on contract despite having massively inferior hardware compared to the Galaxy S2, iPhone 4s, HTC Vivid or Samsung Skyrocket that are all the same price or less on At&t.

 

[EightySix Four]

Actually there are millions of old HTC phones like the Nexus 1, Desire, Desire HD, and Incredible that have the appropriate Qualcomm SoC's for WP7.

I think the problem with WP7 is it's basically an example of a closed platform gone wrong. Android's openness allows it to quickly adopt the latest technology and Apple has always made sure their hardware is competitive with what the top Android phones have. In contrast Microsoft is holding back it's OEMs and ensuring they can't compete with iOS or Android by limiting them to low resolution screens and outdated hardware.

Plus many WP7 devices aren't priced like budget hardware even though the should be, the HTC Titan is $200 on contract despite having massively inferior hardware compared to the Galaxy S2, iPhone 4s, HTC Vivid or Samsung Skyrocket that are all the same price or less on At&t.

Maybe this shows the difference in our perspectives, but I just don't give a shit about the underlying hardware like I do the user experience. It would be like looking at the different infotainment systems available for cars and not picking which one was easiest to use, but which one ran the fastest hardware. Even with it's "slow" 1ghz snapdragon, my Surround is still one of the most responsive phones I have used, as is evident by the speed comparisons MS did at CES.

I am excited for the Titan 2, it will only be a little bit faster than my surround, but the larger screen and LTE sold me on it. I also have an iPhone 4 and SGS (stock rom, CM7, and ICS), and yet I massively prefer my surround for day-to-day work. To each their own.

 

[God Mode]

Free after contract phones usually means shit with no resale value. Nokia isn't cool anymore. When I ask people what they think about Nokia, all I get is ???? They would've had better luck getting samsung to make exclusive phones for them. Don't make a galaxy copy like the focus because that phone sucked ass.

Unless MS kisses indie developer ass and opens up a very big app market like apple and google, windows phone will never be popular. They need to play catchup so kickass hardware along with software is important. Ditch Nokia and whore out to everyone.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

Maybe this shows the difference in our perspectives, but I just don't give a shit about the underlying hardware like I do the user experience. It would be like looking at the different infotainment systems available for cars and not picking which one was easiest to use, but which one ran the fastest hardware. Even with it's "slow" 1ghz snapdragon, my Surround is still one of the most responsive phones I have used, as is evident by the speed comparisons MS did at CES.

I am excited for the Titan 2, it will only be a little bit faster than my surround, but the larger screen and LTE sold me on it. I also have an iPhone 4 and SGS (stock rom, CM7, and ICS), and yet I massively prefer my surround for day-to-day work. To each their own.

My Galaxy S2 is perfectly responsive with 5 homescreens full of widgets but it's also powerful enough to playback my entire library of 1080p video without conversion. Plus since it is Android the integration with all of the Google services I already use is flawless. I can also use Google Voice for free texting which saves me money every month.

The fact that WP7 can get by on ancient hardware isn't an excuse not to use more modern SoC's. iOS performed perfectly fine on A4 yet Apple still invested in A5 to ensure it's users had the best experience possible.

Microsoft has tried to avoid competing on specs and has failed miserably, Bada has more marketshare than WP7. They need to quit trying to force reality to conform to their plans and start competing with Apple and Google.

 

[EightySix Four]

My Galaxy S2 is perfectly responsive with 5 homescreens full of widgets but it's also powerful enough to playback my entire library of 1080p video without conversion. Plus since it is Android the integration with all of the Google services I already use is flawless. I can also use Google Voice for free texting which saves me money every month.

The fact that WP7 can get by on ancient hardware isn't an excuse not to use more modern SoC's. iOS performed perfectly fine on A4 yet Apple still invested in A5 to ensure it's users had the best experience possible.

Microsoft has tried to avoid competing on specs and has failed miserably, Bada has more marketshare than WP7. They need to quit trying to force reality to conform to their plans and start competing with Apple and Google.

I have six live tiles that give me every single piece of information I need at a glance on my phone, I have never had a problem playing video on my phone, but I will admit I don't ever use it for that. I use my phone for communication, news, light gaming, and music... Windows 7 integrates with all the services I use on a day to day basis, including my enterprise lync server, Facebook, MSN messenger, etc. The integration with the live services which match up perfectly across the board with Google's is incredibly impressive (both pro and consumer services). Unlike many other people, I simply don't want to worry about what is under the hood of my phone, computer, car, console, etc. anymore. I want it to do what I want without question and with a high level of responsiveness. If it is slow, I replace it with something faster, at the moment Windows Phone is one of the most responsive OSs out there and does what I want. The absolutely rediculius number of conversions I have made with my clients and friends is proof that people do want what WP7 offers but MS has somehow failed to convey.

If MS was really smart they would starting putting MS employees to push WP7 in AT&T stores.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

I have six live tiles that give me every single piece of information I need at a glance on my phone, I have never had a problem playing video on my phone, but I will admit I don't ever use it for that. I use my phone for communication, news, light gaming, and music... Windows 7 integrates with all the services I use on a day to day basis, including my enterprise lync server, Facebook, MSN messenger, etc. The integration with the live services which match up perfectly across the board with Google's is incredibly impressive (both pro and consumer services). Unlike many other people, I simply don't want to worry about what is under the hood of my phone, computer, car, console, etc. anymore. I want it to do what I want without question and with a high level of responsiveness. If it is slow, I replace it with something faster, at the moment Windows Phone is one of the most responsive OSs out there and does what I want. The absolutely rediculius number of conversions I have made with my clients and friends is proof that people do want what WP7 offers but MS has somehow failed to convey.

If MS was really smart they would starting putting MS employees to push WP7 in AT&T stores.

Microsoft does have a good number of Live services but at least in my experience very few people use them compared to their Google counterparts.

Lync and Exchange work on Android and iOS as well and Gmail has dedicated apps for them unlike WP7.

Gaming is one area where WP7 also seems to be lacking, sure ti has the exclsive Xbox games but it dos not get major cross platform releases like Android and iOS. Besides the powerful hardware in Android and iOS devices gives you much better visuals while gaming.

I guess I just have a different approach when it comes to my gadgets, I know exactly whats under the hood of my car, phone, and all of my PC's.

 

[arod]

Microsoft does have a good number of Live services but at least in my experience very few people use them compared to their Google counterparts.

Lync and Exchange work on Android and iOS as well and Gmail has dedicated apps for them unlike WP7.

Gaming is one area where WP7 also seems to be lacking, sure ti has the exclsive Xbox games but it dos not get major cross platform releases like Android and iOS. Besides the powerful hardware in Android and iOS devices gives you much better visuals while gaming.

I guess I just have a different approach when it comes to my gadgets, I know exactly whats under the hood of my car, phone, and all of my PC's.

Live has at very least the same number of active users world wide as google (360 million active users for live/hotmail vs 350 for gmail which is a wash).... Then you have skydrive (100 million users)+office365 vs. apps/docs/picasa.... have a feeling at very least matches google. Than you factor in skype which is significantly larger than google voice.

On the gaming front.... android is not really getting most major game releases either..... that is still very much an ios exclusive.

I am with EightySix Four on the overall experience.... I do not want to tinker with my phone. I want my phone to "just work" and never screw up. WP7 has been excellent in this regard. It never slows down, crashes, etc. That to me is the most important feature of a smartphone.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

I am with EightySix Four on the overall experience.... I do not want to tinker with my phone. I want my phone to "just work" and never screw up. WP7 has been excellent in this regard. It never slows down, crashes, etc. That to me is the most important feature of a smartphone.

That's the thing, Android just works also. I don't have any problem rooting a phone and flashing a custom rom and I did just that on my Captivate but I haven't seen the need on my Galaxy S2. The phone is always incredibly fast and the only force close I have experienced is with an obscure app that isn't even available for WP7.

Android doesn't get every major game but it gets a lot more than WP7, probably because it actually has the hardware to run them. For example Android got GTA3 at the same time as iOS.

 

[poofyhairguy]

L
On the gaming front.... android is not really getting most major game releases either..... that is still very much an ios exclusive.

That is changing quickly:

http://www.tegrazone.com/games

 

[Pliablemoose]

For those who want a simple bulletproof interface and OS, there's iOS, if you want a very customizable (and powerful OS) there's Android.

Unless one of them really screws up, Windows has virtually no chance.

And if they want to increase marketshare, they need to heavily subsidize the phone, and the OS, give the OS away for 2 years, and give the carriers a $50 subsidy on each phone sold.

 

[quest55720]

For those who want a simple bulletproof interface and OS, there's iOS, if you want a very customizable (and powerful OS) there's Android.

Unless one of them really screws up, Windows has virtually no chance.

And if they want to increase marketshare, they need to heavily subsidize the phone, and the OS, give the OS away for 2 years, and give the carriers a $50 subsidy on each phone sold.

Except IOS you are stuck with 1 phone form factor. I think WP has the right idea. Fast fluid OS that carriers and OEMS can't muck up. But OEMs can make phones in many different sizes and shapes. Where MS messed up is being a little slow with supporting more hardware and screen resolutions. I won't ever concider an android phone because I want it to work great out of the box and not have to worry about being orphaned with updates.

 

[Deeko]

For those who want a simple bulletproof interface and OS, there's iOS, if you want a very customizable (and powerful OS) there's Android.

Unless one of them really screws up, Windows has virtually no chance.

And if they want to increase marketshare, they need to heavily subsidize the phone, and the OS, give the OS away for 2 years, and give the carriers a $50 subsidy on each phone sold.

There is plenty of room for a third platform. The cell phone market is huge - and everyone has different preferences. Just because someone wants simple doesn't mean they want the iPhone.

 

[arod]

That's the thing, Android just works also. I don't have any problem rooting a phone and flashing a custom rom and I did just that on my Captivate but I haven't seen the need on my Galaxy S2. The phone is always incredibly fast and the only force close I have experienced is with an obscure app that isn't even available for WP7.

Android doesn't get every major game but it gets a lot more than WP7, probably because it actually has the hardware to run them. For example Android got GTA3 at the same time as iOS.

It might work for some but the fact that there are so many custom launchers and roms tell me to many android doesn't "just work". If it did there would be no reason for them to exist imo.

I equate all wp7 devices with the nexus line from google but wp7 but wp7 has more form factor choices than just the few models that have gotten the nexus name. If I were to ever go android the nexus is the only line I would even consider.

 

[wirednuts]

microsoft could have done somethng unique... just one damn thing... oh well android is good stuff so for the foreseeable future, fuck windows mobile

 

[TheStu]

microsoft could have done somethng unique... just one damn thing... oh well android is good stuff so for the foreseeable future, fuck windows mobile

Windows Mobile is dead. Windows Phone is the new OS and UI that they are using, and it is unique. At least more so than when you look at iOS v Android. Though with ICS Android seems to have aped some of Metro's paradigms.

 

[Pliablemoose]

There is plenty of room for a third platform. The cell phone market is huge - and everyone has different preferences. Just because someone wants simple doesn't mean they want the iPhone.

Agreed, the question I have is how distant the 3rd & 4th OS's will be.

I'm all for choice, and hope that WP makes some major inroads, and that BB sorts it's stuff out too, we all win

(<---taps foot, waiting impatiently for the PlayBook OS update )