What do you think the effect of raising taxes on the poor would be?

[Anarchist420]

Would it increase support for reductions in government spending or would it result in a demand for more government spending?

I heard someone say that everyone needs to "feel the sting" of a general consumption tax (say, 30% on everything and no refunds either) and that it would result in a desire for lower public spending.
However, I disagree with that person because I think the poor would only ask for something in return for their money. I base that upon the fact that taxes are much more regressive in Europe than they are here and they just spend more on public welfare there. I don't know for sure how many people want a choice as to what their money goes to, but I assume it's not a majority of poor people. Some people will never be satisfied, so I guess it doesn't matter for them at least.

A $100 annual fee to be paid by everyone is really the least harmful centralized tax. $30Bn would still be too much government revenues because the Federal government really doesn't need to exist.

The Dept of state, treasury, and the atty. general's office could each get by on $14Bn combined, a well guarded public sub-armory system on $13Bn, and Congressional salaries, the executive's compensation, running the WH, the Justices' compensation, and running capitol hill on $3Bn.

 

[child of wonder]

I feel everyone should have a stake in the success of our government. Currently many people are able to enjoy net negative tax rates and their income is subsidized by several thousand dollar tax refunds every year. A friend of mine is married with 3 children and currently earns about $40k per year combined. Each tax season he gets approximately $6,000 back.

Instead of our current system I'd like a flat, progressive tax system. For example (numbers are arbitrary):

$1 - $20,000 of total income: taxed at 1%
$20,001 - $50,000: 5%
$50,001 - $100,000: 10%
$100,001 - $250,000: 15%
$250,001 - $500,000: 20%
$500,001 - $1,000,000: 25%
$1,000,001 - $2,000,000: 30%
$2,000,001+: 35%

No deductions and no tax credits. All income is added together and taxed per this chart. Everyone pays something and there are no tax loopholes for people to wiggle through.

 

[her209]

No deductions and no tax credits. All income is added together and taxed per this chart. Everyone pays something and there are no tax loopholes for people to wiggle through.

Can u deduct business related expenses and/or losses?

 

[piasabird]

Cigarette tax is raising tax on the poor so is the Gas Tax. We pay all kinds of taxes that are taxing the poor from Liquor to groceries, car registration, Health Insurance, taxes on Phone Lines, etc.

I think every time someone buys or sells stock there should be a stock exchange tax. There are millions or billions of stock shares sold every day.

 

[MovingTarget]

"You cannot squeeze blood from a turnip..."

Raising taxes on the poor is not only a good way to get them to pick up their pitchforks, its bad economic policy. Poor people spend everything they get, thus cycling that money back through the economy. It would put a big damper on economic activity.

 

[piasabird]

There are a lot more taxes than just income taxes. So if you have a consumption tax what happens if you want to buy a car? How much would the tax be on a $20,000.00 auto or one of those $40,000 hybrids? This could backfire and result in even fewer purchases causing a black market, bartering, and buying things outside of the country. Whenever people come up with Ideas like this, they need to think of the repurcussions. You see rich people can afford to purchase expensive Items in some other country and smuggle them back in and avoid taxes.

 

[piasabird]

Raise taxes on illegal immigrants and green card holders.

 

[dank69]

I feel everyone should have a stake in the success of our government. Currently many people are able to enjoy net negative tax rates and their income is subsidized by several thousand dollar tax refunds every year. A friend of mine is married with 3 children and currently earns about $40k per year combined. Each tax season he gets approximately $6,000 back.

Instead of our current system I'd like a flat, progressive tax system. For example (numbers are arbitrary):

$1 - $20,000 of total income: taxed at 1%
$20,001 - $50,000: 5%
$50,001 - $100,000: 10%
$100,001 - $250,000: 15%
$250,001 - $500,000: 20%
$500,001 - $1,000,000: 25%
$1,000,001 - $2,000,000: 30%
$2,000,001+: 35%

No deductions and no tax credits. All income is added together and taxed per this chart. Everyone pays something and there are no tax loopholes for people to wiggle through.

If I understand you correctly, your friend makes $40k/yr and gets an additional $6k/yr from the IRS? If this is the case then you think he can get by on $39,600/yr?

 

[blankslate]

Raise taxes on illegal immigrants and green card holders.

The problem with immigration is a two part problem... lack of enforcement on the undocumented workers and lack of harsher penalties for employers of those workers

Also why not offer rewards for people who narc on employers choose to hire under the table.
I'm sure that people who have lost their jobs because of that would like to get some of that reward money.

Farm work is admittedly problematic because that is the one place where employers would have problems finding American workers at decent wages.


As for the original question the effect would be....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3ZOKDmorj0

 

[boochi]

Raise taxes on illegal immigrants and green card holders.

If caught here illegally, how about we seize all your shit and sell it?

 

[dank69]

If caught here illegally, how about we seize all your shit and sell it?

Yeah those immigrants stockpile some really nice shit.

 

[child of wonder]

If I understand you correctly, your friend makes $40k/yr and gets an additional $6k/yr from the IRS? If this is the case then you think he can get by on $39,600/yr?

Right now his take home is $36,450 plus the $6,000 refund. Under my plan his take home would be $38,800 with zero refund. Yes, a $3,650 difference.

However, why should he get a free $6,000 every year?

 

[Ausm]

yeah those immigrants stockpile some really nice shit.

lol +1

 

[Ronstang]

However, why should he get a free $6,000 every year?

He shouldn't, but the Democrats could not buy votes without such handouts so don't count on it ever changing until they succeed in driving this country into the ground.

 

[spittledip]

I feel everyone should have a stake in the success of our government. Currently many people are able to enjoy net negative tax rates and their income is subsidized by several thousand dollar tax refunds every year. A friend of mine is married with 3 children and currently earns about $40k per year combined. Each tax season he gets approximately $6,000 back.

Instead of our current system I'd like a flat, progressive tax system. For example (numbers are arbitrary):

$1 - $20,000 of total income: taxed at 1%
$20,001 - $50,000: 5%
$50,001 - $100,000: 10%
$100,001 - $250,000: 15%
$250,001 - $500,000: 20%
$500,001 - $1,000,000: 25%
$1,000,001 - $2,000,000: 30%
$2,000,001+: 35%

No deductions and no tax credits. All income is added together and taxed per this chart. Everyone pays something and there are no tax loopholes for people to wiggle through.

The problem with your chart is that it would be better to make less money as you pass the tax increase mark. That is why a better system would be getting taxed on the amount of money that you make over the mark rather than on the total. Using the numbers from your chart and the system I am referring to- if a person makes 150,000:
(1-20,000)The first 20,000 would get taxed 1%
(20001 - 50000) The next 29,999 get taxed at 5%
(50001-100000) The next 49999 get taxed at 10%
(100001-250000) /the next 49999 get taxed at 15%

Like I said in another post, this type of tax system is in place in other countries. It is a very fair way to tax. No loopholes, everyone pays the same amount, and the increase in percentages don't screw you as only the amount over the thresholds get taxed.

 

[NetGuySC]

I would be estatic if the tax rates remained as they are but just eliminate the (un) earned income credit. Why should anyone have a negative federal tax rate?
Currently 49.5% of the population pays no federal income tax, I wonder how many of these receive a federal tax refund check?

 

[PrinceofWands]

Absolutely nothing, you can't get blood from a stone. You can charge absolutely anything, it doesn't change what people can pay. If you attempt to collect by force more than they can eat/live with they will revolt and execute everyone with more than they have. Then society starts over roughly balanced and it all gets tried again.

 

[IBMer]

The problem with your chart is that it would be better to make less money as you pass the tax increase mark. That is why a better system would be getting taxed on the amount of money that you make over the mark rather than on the total. Using the numbers from your chart and the system I am referring to- if a person makes 150,000:
(1-20,000)The first 20,000 would get taxed 1%
(20001 - 50000) The next 29,999 get taxed at 5%
(50001-100000) The next 49999 get taxed at 10%
(100001-250000) /the next 49999 get taxed at 15%

Like I said in another post, this type of tax system is in place in other countries. It is a very fair way to tax. No loopholes, everyone pays the same amount, and the increase in percentages don't screw you as only the amount over the thresholds get taxed.

I believe this is what he intended.

 

[trenchfoot]

He shouldn't, but the Democrats could not buy votes without such handouts so don't count on it ever changing until they succeed in driving this country into the ground.

You mean like Bush/Cheney did just three+ years ago?

 

[child of wonder]

The problem with your chart is that it would be better to make less money as you pass the tax increase mark. That is why a better system would be getting taxed on the amount of money that you make over the mark rather than on the total. Using the numbers from your chart and the system I am referring to- if a person makes 150,000:
(1-20,000)The first 20,000 would get taxed 1%
(20001 - 50000) The next 29,999 get taxed at 5%
(50001-100000) The next 49999 get taxed at 10%
(100001-250000) /the next 49999 get taxed at 15%

Like I said in another post, this type of tax system is in place in other countries. It is a very fair way to tax. No loopholes, everyone pays the same amount, and the increase in percentages don't screw you as only the amount over the thresholds get taxed.

That's exactly what my chart was intended to portray. Increasing the tax rate on the entire income would be stupid.

 

[Rainsford]

I would be estatic if the tax rates remained as they are but just eliminate the (un) earned income credit. Why should anyone have a negative federal tax rate?
Currently 49.5% of the population pays no federal income tax, I wonder how many of these receive a federal tax refund check?

Is it really required that the federal tax system be perfectly fair though? First and foremost, the purpose of the tax system is to collect money the government needs to operate. Making this as fair as possible seems reasonable, but I honestly don't understand this preoccupation with raising taxes on poor people. It certainly wouldn't raise very much extra money (because the people we're talking about don't HAVE all that much money) and it would put an extra financial burden on people who have a hard enough time as it is.

I made a point a long time ago about this that I think bears repeating. All outrage aside, nobody is staying poor because the tax breaks are so great. And nobody in the world getting by on $30k per year thinks they're getting a better deal than some stockbroker making $500k. Yeah, the latter pays a higher percentage in taxes, while the former might even be net negative on taxes. Still, I'd rather have 70% of $500k than 110% of $30k.

 

[Paul98]

Taxes shouldn't be about fairness, about everyone paying the same rate, or about short term balanced budgets. They should be about the long term prosperity of everyone in the USA.

 

[spittledip]

That's exactly what my chart was intended to portray. Increasing the tax rate on the entire income would be stupid.

Not very clear then. Especially since you stated, "Add all income together and tax per this chart."

 

[NetGuySC]

Is it really required that the federal tax system be perfectly fair though? First and foremost, the purpose of the tax system is to collect money the government needs to operate. Making this as fair as possible seems reasonable, but I honestly don't understand this preoccupation with raising taxes on poor people. It certainly wouldn't raise very much extra money (because the people we're talking about don't HAVE all that much money) and it would put an extra financial burden on people who have a hard enough time as it is.

I made a point a long time ago about this that I think bears repeating. All outrage aside, nobody is staying poor because the tax breaks are so great. And nobody in the world getting by on $30k per year thinks they're getting a better deal than some stockbroker making $500k. Yeah, the latter pays a higher percentage in taxes, while the former might even be net negative on taxes. Still, I'd rather have 70% of $500k than 110% of $30k.

I am not asking that the tax system be fair.

I think a 0% federal tax rate for the poor is extremely ideal. They are poor and they should not be burdened with paying a large part of their income to federal taxes.

I am not asking the "poor" to pay any more federal taxes.

I simply do not have a problem raising anyone's federal income taxes to a 0% rate.. Why should I? Personally, I think everyone should pay at least 1%, just for the privilege of living in this great country we call the United States of America..

What is wrong with a 0% federal income tax rate for the working poor?

I just believe that a -20 to -30% federal tax rate for a large percentage of the population, has a very, very negative impact on the budget of this country in a time when we are what, 15 trillion in debt.

Again, Why should anyone have a negative federal income tax rate???

 

[Doppel]

Their quality of living goes down further, they say to hell with whoever is in office.

The taxes on the poor are very low now and they are still poor. If you make $25k/year and have a kid or two do you even pay any income tax? No, or else it's hardly worth mentioning.