What do you think of nVidia locking down voltage?

[BD231]

Cheers to mrk6

And that along with the comment you had in your sig will cost you time off as well.
admin allisolm

 

[lavaheadache]

Cheers to mrk6

 

[3DVagabond]

Don't care. At default voltage you are getting what you paid for. Unless the ability to apply additional voltage was ever touted as a feature of current generation cards.

Power Edition
- Triple Overvoltage: adjust the voltage of GPU, memory and PLL to unleash the potential of graphics card.
- Enhanced PWM Design: provide higher overclocking capability and better stability in peak load.

Like this?^

Which is the main reason people and the AIB's are upset.

 

[blanketyblank]

Don't care. At default voltage you are getting what you paid for. Unless the ability to apply additional voltage was ever touted as a feature of current generation cards.

I don't really understand this sentiment. The discrete market has been moving towards increasing overlcocking ability. The boxes spam increased durability, cooling, and OCability. Some cards contain dual BIOS chips and a switch you can flip, default drivers let people tweak voltage and clock speed.
Why would anyone not want to OC when it's so blatantly thrown at you? I haven't tried NV drivers for a few years now, but from what I remember they made it quite easy to OC in their drivers and they had their own tool to monitor/adjust clocks. My AMD card it has its own tab just for overclocking. I have to hunt down the option to scale the screen to fit my television, but OCing has its OWN tab.
So no, you are not getting what you paid for if NV decides to gimp its drivers so you can no longer OC and/or overvolt. If that feature was availble at the time of purchase and appeared to be officially supported than they are taking away value that people paid for. People buy high end cards because they want the fastest cards available. If NV takes aways the ability to OC than those people no longer have the fastest cards since they will be beat by cheaper competitor cards that can be OCed.

That being said I know they haven't taken away the ablity to OC entirely, yet. However since it looks like they are slipping backwards I believe that is where they would like to head. It used to be the only difference between a go 6200 and a 6600 was a driver clock speed change so I'm sure NV would love it if they only had to sell one card which they differentiated solely through software and marketing.

 

[SirPauly]

Is nVidia slipping backwards though?

It's not like one can't over-clock though but it sure seems nVidia desires to clamp down on manual control on over-volts over 1.175.

Is GPU Boost moving backwards or moving forward? Having dynamic clocks and volts where it is much more seamless to many more? Where their focus may be with performance efficiency for a trade-off?

My beef is why does there have to be a trade-off?

 

[SirPauly]

Interesting to see how the market may react. Granted Steam isn't the end-all-be-all indicator but the GTX 660 Ti's growth was the highest for the month:

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/directx/?sort=chg

 

[zaydq]

Interesting to see how the market may react. Granted Steam isn't the end-all-be-all indicator but the GTX 660 Ti's growth was the highest for the month:

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/directx/?sort=chg

Sure is... especially when you walk into 'Canada Computers' and you hear the sales rep tell a guy that the 660ti destroys a 7950 in 1440p gaming because the 7950 is memory limited.

 

[Anarchist420]

I wish I could say that I will no longer buy nvidia products because of this and many other reasons, but they and AMD are the only game in town... so I put that it bothers me a lot. I wish nvidia and AMD would both go out of business to be honest and their business practices very likely wouldn't be feasible in a free society. They really just make crap and they're too dishonest... they haven't done any good considering what could be and how much they've just held things back. I think it is also time for Microsoft and Apple to be eaten alive by the forces of the market, but they have too many patents and the latter is REALLY aggressive in court which means they won't fail until the US gov fails. I just hate the perpetuation of institutions via patents, regulations, legal tender, and contracts (which are nothing more than subsidies). I have no reason not to think 100% voluntaryism would've brutally eaten alive pretty much every company in the tech industry today... Samsung sucks, Panasonic sucks, Sony sucks, Microsoft sucks, Apple sucks, nv sucks, AMD sucks, and intel isn't making me too happy either (I just don't believe it that the transistor density difference between ivy and sandy is what makes the former run at higher temps and I also think that the iGPUs are misguided because we really need a return to open source APIs, programmable blending and depth and lossless rather than lossy textures). All of that said, I'd guess Philips probably takes less advantage of the situation so I can't say they suck even if I don't really like their products... however, institutions that don't want to take advantage are going to have to soon if their management wants to still have a job and to make money.

 

[taltamir]

what is the difference between "I don't care" and "It doesn't bother me at all"

 

[ocre]

I wish I could say that I will no longer buy nvidia products because of this and many other reasons, but they and AMD are the only game in town... so I put that it bothers me a lot. I wish nvidia and AMD would both go out of business to be honest and their business practices very likely wouldn't be feasible in a free society. They really just make crap and they're too dishonest... they haven't done any good considering what could be and how much they've just held things back. I think it is also time for Microsoft and Apple to be eaten alive by the forces of the market, but they have too many patents and the latter is REALLY aggressive in court which means they won't fail until the US gov fails. I just hate the perpetuation of institutions via patents, regulations, legal tender, and contracts (which are nothing more than subsidies). I have no reason not to think 100% voluntaryism would've brutally eaten alive pretty much every company in the tech industry today... Samsung sucks, Panasonic sucks, Sony sucks, Microsoft sucks, Apple sucks, nv sucks, AMD sucks, and intel isn't making me too happy either (I just don't believe it that the transistor density difference between ivy and sandy is what makes the former run at higher temps and I also think that the iGPUs are misguided because we really need a return to open source APIs, programmable blending and depth and lossless rather than lossy textures). All of that said, I'd guess Philips probably takes less advantage of the situation so I can't say they suck even if I don't really like their products... however, institutions that don't want to take advantage are going to have to soon if their management wants to still have a job and to make money.

 

[tweakboy]

What is this, for the 6xx series and 7xx series ? The voltage is locked hmmmmm.

I dont believe that, there has to be a tweak, "no phun intended." Try MSI Afterburner or EVGA Precision

If that doesn't work then dont worry cuz voltage is only for GPU speed. Memory speed is far more important in a vc OC. You can still ramp up your mem and raise fan speed to 100 percent when you game, Look at my OC , I haven't touched voltage. no need... gl

 

[AnandThenMan]

Interesting to see how the market may react. Granted Steam isn't the end-all-be-all indicator but the GTX 660 Ti's growth was the highest for the month:

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/directx/?sort=chg

Consumers make wrong choices all the time.

 

[peonyu]

I have mixed feeling about it. On the one hand its a good thing - Nvidia's VRM quality is usually poor compared to AMD, I have had 2 Nvidia cards die due to the VRM's popping under a slight voltage increase. The AMD cards that I had [and have] have never had their VRM's burn out and this is with a large voltage increase...Maybe Nvidia knows that their cards die more often than they would like from over volting and want to stop it from happening ?


On the other hand the Aftermarket cards that ASUS and others make which have beefed up VRM units...It sucks to own one of them and be voltage locked.

 

[peonyu]

Here's the way I see it. A reference GTX 680 cannot handle over voltage well, we all know that the cooler and VRM is not up to the task. But why apply the same voltage methodology to a card like the MSI lightning or EVGA classified? These cards are specially equipped with hardware that is completely fine with handling the additional voltage! This is the main reason I do not understand the change. A reference with voltage locked? Yeah, thats fine with me. But why apply the same methodology with substantially better cooling and hardware?

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Nelly]

Maybe Nvidia are getting stroppy because an overclocked/volted MSI GTX 680 Lightning will equal a GTX 780 at stock...

Wishful thinking lol

 

[utahraptor]

What bothers me is that Nvidia is unwilling to allow high powered boards like the MSI Lightning or Power series voltage controls. Granted the reference board is utter crap, but just because it is does not mean their board partners also make junk. They should have allowed the board partners to send in boards to be evaluated and certified to exceed spec. Since the board partners end up footing the bill for RMAs I don't even see how this is an issue.

 

[SolMiester]

I never thought I'd see the day where so called enthusiasts are defending the inability to overclock.

They can over-clock, this is about over-volting, but you know the difference, and yet......?
Also, since when has VC&G been an exclusive enthusiasts sub-forum?

 

[Nelly]

Are you ready for this...

We contacted Nvidia for comment and received a response from their Senior PR Manager, Bryan Del Rizzo with the following,

"Green Light was created to help ensure that all of the GTX boards in the market all have great acoustics, temperatures, and mechanicals. This helps to ensure our GTX customers get the highest quality product that runs quiet, cool, and fits in their PC. GTX is a measureable brand, and Green Light is a promise to ensure that the brand remains as strong as possible by making sure the products brought to market meet our highest quality requirements.

Reducing RMAs has never been a focus of Green Light.

We support overvoltaging up to a limit on our products, but have a maximum reliability spec that is intended to protect the life of the product. We don’t want to see customers disappointed when their card dies in a year or two because the voltage was raised too high.

Regarding overvoltaging above our max spec, we offer AICs two choices:

· Ensure the GPU stays within our operating specs and have a full warranty from NVIDIA.

· Allow the GPU to be manually operated outside specs in which case NVIDIA provides no warranty.

We prefer AICs ensure the GPU stays within spec and encourage this through warranty support, but it’s ultimately up to the AIC what they want to do. Their choice does not affect allocation. And this has no bearing on the end user warranty provided by the AIC. It is simply a warranty between NVIDIA and the AIC.

With Green Light, we don’t really go out of the way to look for ways that AICs enable manual OV. As I stated, this isn’t the core purpose of the program. Yes, you’ve seen some cases of boards getting out into the market with OV features only to have them disabled later. This is due to the fact that AICs decided later that they would prefer to have a warranty. This is simply a choice the AICs each need to make for themselves. How, or when they make this decision, is entirely up to them.

With regards to your MSI comment below, we gave MSI the same choice I referenced above -- change their SW to disable OV above our reliability limit or not obtain a warranty. They simply chose to change their software in lieu of the warranty. Their choice. It is not ours to make, and we don’t influence them one way or the other.

In short, Green Light is an especially important program for a major, new product introduction like Kepler, where our AICs don’t have a lot of experience building and working with our new technologies, but also extends the flexibility to AICs who provide a design that can operate outside of the reliability limits of the board. And, if you look at the products in the market today, there is obviously evidence of differentiation. You only need to look at the large assortment of high quality Kepler boards available today, including standard and overclocked editions."

What does this mean for consumers?
This essentially breaks down to giving consumers fewer options between their cards and limits the innovation that AIBs are capable of implementing in their products. If Nvidia is limiting the AIBs within a set of parameters on their non-reference cards, then they are hurting those board vendors' most profitable products. This gives consumers less choice, while enabling Nvidia to theoretically have lower RMAs. Such a program does, however, make sense if you think about the perception of Nvidia if all of their board partners are running amok. They obviously have to have a certain level of control over what their AIBs do with their GPUs if they are going to warranty them. But, we believe that Nvidia has gone too far in their restrictions on board partners and amount of control they exercise in the process.

So, the Green Light program is a program that we believe hurts AIBs and consumers while enabling Nvidia to reduce their RMA rate and improve their margins. If you are an Nvidia investor, this is great news, but if you are a consumer, this is clearly bad news. Nvidia claims that this has to do with the quality of the product and smoothness of launches, however, we believe that in the end it's all about money.

Source

 

[thilanliyan]

Are you ready for this...

Source

So were RMAs and dead GPUs (resulting in the AIB having a warranty claim with nVidia) a big problem before?

If not, why the change in policy for this generation?

If it was a problem before, why the change in policy only now?

Personally, I like the option to overvolt especially because I watercool my cards.

 

[sontin]

After the GTX590 fiasco it seems they changed their policy.

 

[blackened23]

So, the Green Light program is a program that we believe hurts AIBs and consumers while enabling Nvidia to reduce their RMA rate and improve their margins. If you are an Nvidia investor, this is great news, but if you are a consumer, this is clearly bad news. Nvidia claims that this has to do with the quality of the product and smoothness of launches, however, we believe that in the end it's all about money.

Sounds like nvidia is doing it for higher revenue, according to the author

 

[AnandThenMan]

Wow that Nvidia statement is just sad...

They can over-clock, this is about over-volting, but you know the difference, and yet......?

They have gone hand in hand since I can remember, I used to overclock Motorola 6809's by increasing the voltage to insane levels.

Also, since when has VC&G been an exclusive enthusiasts sub-forum?

What would you consider this forum to be? We talk about high end GPU's constantly, an enthusiast product. Who wants to talk about low end product anyway?

 

[SolMiester]

I dont see any problem with that TBH

 

[thilanliyan]

After the GTX590 fiasco it seems they changed their policy.

That was because of some flaw in the reference board or BIOS wasn't it?

If it had been one of the Lightning type boards that probably would not have been a problem.

 

[sontin]

That was because of some flaw in the reference board or BIOS wasn't it?

If it had been one of the Lightning type boards that probably would not have been a problem.

Software control of voltage is based on the material. So the reference design was flawed.