You believe in determinism? I believe in its potential. Everyone cites the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle as a reason why it can't work but, (from my basic knowledge) the HUP just states that we can never measure something to complete accuracy--that neither speed nor location can be known at the same time. To me, that doesn't rule out determinism, it just states we can never prove it.
You believe in determinism? I believe in its potential. Everyone cites the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle as a reason why it can't work but, (from my basic knowledge) the HUP just states that we can never measure something to complete accuracy--that neither speed nor location can be known at the same time. To me, that doesn't rule out determinism, it just states we can never prove it.
MartyMcFly3
Lifer
Ultimately, you have absolutely no purpose. Sucks for you all doesn't it?
Do you need purpose to continue?
Do you need purpose to continue?
Can you elaborate please? Take something like someone faced with a decision to cheat on their spouse. I say you have a choice and that you make that choice. Your post seems to say that I don't have a choice and what I will do is already determined. Wouldn't that premise seem to indicate that you believe in fate and that everything that will happen in the future is already decided and nothing can be done to change it?
he means when you "make" that decision you as a person isn't really making it even if it seems like it. what's really happening is atoms colliding and science laws at work (because everything that occurs in the mind, thoughts etc. are triggered by proteins and electricity and chemical reactions). so really the laws of science are whats making you decide, not your own "soul" even if that may seem like it. everything is basically on *auto pilot* because nature runs its course and it is what your thoughts are composed of.
its quite different from the idea of fate if you ask me. i would say the idea of fate is that all actions/occurances are predetermined and will happen regardless. that everything is like on roller coaster tracks, that everybody is really just living a timeline. if im not mistaken dan's idea is leaning more on one not being able to make their own decisions because they occur naturally. things arent determined already like a story book, but that still doesnt mean the person has control over his decisions.
Well that's how I read it. So if all these events are the result of these laws, then assuming you could figure out how it all worked that you could predict the future. ("because of this - this will happen, then this, then this, then this..."). I know it's not something that could be done, but in essence it is saying that the future is already determined. The reaction that will take place happens because of cause and effect and you can determine any future reaction by looking at the previous reaction.
Am I mixing ideas here? I guess it's kind of looking at the universe as being either in a state of chaos or order. Maybe it seems like chaos in a micro-sense, but in the big picture, everything is predictable.
Schadenfroh
Elite Member
- Mar 8, 2003
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i never thought of that. that makes sense to me, but then again im by no means even remotely a philosophical type. perhaps dan can explain, i hope i didnt mess up and interpret his post incorrectly. i guess logically it would be possible to determine the future and every micro-occurence in the universe if in fact this were true, assuming the universe has a very rigid set of "laws" pertaining to the nature of everything(i dont see how it couldnt.) it would seem that random/chaos is non-existent and everything is indisputably determined by something else.
*disclaimer: im just sorting out my own undeveloped/unresearched thoughts, so dont take this too seriously. im just curious because this stuff is fascinating. hopefully some people here have studied or know a little more about this and can explain.
I'm a determinist too. A cup of water can't choose not to boil at 100C. We're just lumps of matter reacting to stimuli beyond our control.
on the darwinian level the purpose of life is to reproduce. why do you think guys have such a strong sex drive :Q
current theories suggest that there may be random movement at the subatomic particle level
But even if so, I don't understand why people connect rigid natural laws with the lack of free will. Suppose there were no rigid laws and everything happened randomly. How does this randomness suddenly mean we have free will? In fact, it seems on the face of it that if everything were random we would have less free will. After all, we would have no control over anything - it's all random.
There may not necessarily be a connection between free will and natural laws.
But even if so, I don't understand why people connect rigid natural laws with the lack of free will. Suppose there were no rigid laws and everything happened randomly. How does this randomness suddenly mean we have free will? In fact, it seems on the face of it that if everything were random we would have less free will. After all, we would have no control over anything - it's all random.
There may not necessarily be a connection between free will and natural laws.
I'm just glad you didnt put it in the order of kill.fvck.eat..
aside from that, I think the purpose of life is to live.
or procreate.. but can you really live without the occasional procreating? heh
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