What do you think about this statement?

[SphinxnihpS]

I proclaim this thread the largest clusterfuck of misinformation on the subject of insurance, EVER ASSEMBLED.

 

[Uppsala9496]

I'm not an agent. I'm an underwriter. Basically what I say goes. I'm the end all be all in terms of what terms and conditions are offered. The best part is my authority is at the highest level so I don't need any approval for anything.
Of course I stay in compliance with all laws and regulations, but I do as I please. Only been deposed once and that is because the plaintiffs attorney was clueless about insurance. The deposition lasted all of 10 minutes.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

Originally posted by: Uppsala9496
I'm not an agent. I'm an underwriter. Basically what I say goes. I'm the end all be all in terms of what terms and conditions are offered. The best part is my authority is at the highest level so I don't need any approval for anything.
Of course I stay in compliance with all laws and regulations, but I do as I please. Only been deposed once and that is because the plaintiffs attorney was clueless about insurance. The deposition lasted all of 10 minutes.

You're not a policy writer, so I disagree with your statement almost in total. Also, no one called you an agent.

Underwriters are risk classifiers, not policy makers. You decide who or what get's insured and what premium class those things fall into based on guidlines you had nothing to do with creating. Your position is fairly non-powerful. Also, get over yourself. You may be a manager with "business decision" authority, but you work for a corp or a mutual company, and either way your work IS subject to review, and all of the laws and regulations set forth by your state assembly and insurance commission; if your products fall into any financial instrument category, add the SEC to that list as well.

Also, there are how many types of insurance products? So many people here answering based on their extremely limited experience with one type. LOL. This thread is going places.

 

[DayLaPaul]

Insurance is a pyramid scheme. I wouldn't carry insurance if the law didn't require it.

 

[kranky]

Originally posted by: SphinxnihpS
I proclaim this thread the largest clusterfuck of misinformation on the subject of insurance, EVER ASSEMBLED.

Then refute what you think was incorrect. Just saying there is wrong information is in the thread isn't exactly helpful.

 

[Turin39789]

oh noes! sphinxsisonds has pwned us all!

 

[SphinxnihpS]

Originally posted by: kranky

Originally posted by: SphinxnihpS
I proclaim this thread the largest clusterfuck of misinformation on the subject of insurance, EVER ASSEMBLED.

Then refute what you think was incorrect. Just saying there is wrong information is in the thread isn't exactly helpful.

No need. I gave my best advice when I basically said asking anyone here is retarded to begin with. I also did state somewhere in some way what is wrong with the bulk of it. Read maybe?

 

[Mo0o]

Insurance is not suppose to have a positive predicted net gain for you. Assuming everything goes according to the %s, you will lose money. But because you cant afford to cover the costs in case of a catastrophic event (major medical crisis, home sets on fire), you need dthe insurance to cover the cost. So yes, chances are you will lose money by buying insurance on everything but by buying insurance on things you can not readily cover up front, you prevent yourself from being fucked. So consider it paying a fee to prevent the chance of getting fucked up the ass rather than a little piggy bank you put pennies into to withdraw later on.

Btw, this is why its pointless to buy warranty on small items that you can readily replace like basically all nonfinanced purchases

 

[jonks]

To all of you without insurance: good luck with that

 

[SphinxnihpS]

...

 

[Uppsala9496]

Originally posted by: SphinxnihpS

Originally posted by: Uppsala9496
I'm not an agent. I'm an underwriter. Basically what I say goes. I'm the end all be all in terms of what terms and conditions are offered. The best part is my authority is at the highest level so I don't need any approval for anything.
Of course I stay in compliance with all laws and regulations, but I do as I please. Only been deposed once and that is because the plaintiffs attorney was clueless about insurance. The deposition lasted all of 10 minutes.

You're not a policy writer, so I disagree with your statement almost in total. Also, no one called you an agent.

Underwriters are risk classifiers, not policy makers. You decide who or what get's insured and what premium class those things fall into based on guidlines you had nothing to do with creating. Your position is fairly non-powerful. Also, get over yourself. You may be a manager with "business decision" authority, but you work for a corp or a mutual company, and either way your work IS subject to review, and all of the laws and regulations set forth by your state assembly and insurance commission; if your products fall into any financial instrument category, add the SEC to that list as well.

Also, there are how many types of insurance products? So many people here answering based on their extremely limited experience with one type. LOL. This thread is going places.

Actually I do make decisions outside guidelines. Classes of business that are off-limits I can decide to write. Pricing...I can manipulate as I see fit.
Example: Let's say the base price the actuaries feel is profitable is $10,000. I can write that for $1,000 if I want. Sure I'll have to justify why I am doing so, but accountability is required for all jobs across all lines of business.
For being in a non-powerful position I sure could cause my company to out of business. All I would have to do is go rogue and write shit business. At $10,000,000 a policy I could cause havoc. No one reviews what I write. I've earned enough trust and risen to a high enough level where I am the final authority before a policy is bound and mailed out. Sure there are random audits that take place, but once something is on the books, it is on the books. No going back saying "ooops, U-A went rogue on us, this one doesn't count."
If I wanted I could change all of the policy language (that's basically the contract) to cover any and every claim you could ever think of. Not too difficult to do. I change the policy language on a daily basis as I see fit.

My company trusts my underwriting skill with their money. All insurance is, is a piece of paper that says $X amount can be paid under certain circumstances.

Underwriters basically have the end all, say all in terms of what types of risks are insured. Get to a high enough level and you are the final authority.
Sorry if you find this disturbing or contrary to what you thought the hierarchy of insurance companies was.

By the way, what do you do for a living? I've been underwriting the last 10.5 years.

 

[sactoking]

Originally posted by: SphinxnihpS
No need. I gave my best advice when I basically said asking anyone here is retarded to begin with. I also did state somewhere in some way what is wrong with the bulk of it. Read maybe?

Post #1

Regarding insurance of any sort (because it's all really the same thing), I think you should believe whatever you read on ATOT. I think there are a lot of people here who know a lot about insurance.

THEY DO NOT HAVE A BIG ENOUGH ROLLSEYES EMOTICON FOR THE ABOVE SARCASM.

Post #2

OMG I just read what SMOGZINN wrote in this thread. LOL WOW!

I thought we had eugenic failsafes to protect against situations like this?

Post #3

LOLOLOLOLOL WOW, some of you are agents for insurance carriers? Get your E&O policies out, you're gonna need them soon I predict.

Post #4

I proclaim this thread the largest clusterfuck of misinformation on the subject of insurance, EVER ASSEMBLED.

Post #5

You're not a policy writer, so I disagree with your statement almost in total. Also, no one called you an agent.

Underwriters are risk classifiers, not policy makers. You decide who or what get's insured and what premium class those things fall into based on guidlines you had nothing to do with creating. Your position is fairly non-powerful. Also, get over yourself. You may be a manager with "business decision" authority, but you work for a corp or a mutual company, and either way your work IS subject to review, and all of the laws and regulations set forth by your state assembly and insurance commission; if your products fall into any financial instrument category, add the SEC to that list as well.

Also, there are how many types of insurance products? So many people here answering based on their extremely limited experience with one type. LOL. This thread is going places.

Post #6

No need. I gave my best advice when I basically said asking anyone here is retarded to begin with. I also did state somewhere in some way what is wrong with the bulk of it. Read maybe?

Post #7

...

Edited: 12/01/2008 at 02:43 PM by SphinxnihpS

Care to point it out? Looks to me like you just made a whole bunch of troll posts.

 

[sactoking]

Originally posted by: SphinxnihpS
You're not a policy writer, so I disagree with your statement almost in total. Also, no one called you an agent.

Actually, yes you did when you said

LOLOLOLOLOL WOW, some of you are agents for insurance carriers? Get your E&O policies out, you're gonna need them soon I predict.

You implied that the people who were giving specific information were
a) agents
-and-
b) subject to E&O claims

 

[SphinxnihpS]

Originally posted by: sactoking

Originally posted by: SphinxnihpS
No need. I gave my best advice when I basically said asking anyone here is retarded to begin with. I also did state somewhere in some way what is wrong with the bulk of it. Read maybe?

Post #1

Regarding insurance of any sort (because it's all really the same thing), I think you should believe whatever you read on ATOT. I think there are a lot of people here who know a lot about insurance.

THEY DO NOT HAVE A BIG ENOUGH ROLLSEYES EMOTICON FOR THE ABOVE SARCASM.

Post #2

OMG I just read what SMOGZINN wrote in this thread. LOL WOW!

I thought we had eugenic failsafes to protect against situations like this?

Post #3

LOLOLOLOLOL WOW, some of you are agents for insurance carriers? Get your E&O policies out, you're gonna need them soon I predict.

Post #4

I proclaim this thread the largest clusterfuck of misinformation on the subject of insurance, EVER ASSEMBLED.

Post #5

You're not a policy writer, so I disagree with your statement almost in total. Also, no one called you an agent.

Underwriters are risk classifiers, not policy makers. You decide who or what get's insured and what premium class those things fall into based on guidlines you had nothing to do with creating. Your position is fairly non-powerful. Also, get over yourself. You may be a manager with "business decision" authority, but you work for a corp or a mutual company, and either way your work IS subject to review, and all of the laws and regulations set forth by your state assembly and insurance commission; if your products fall into any financial instrument category, add the SEC to that list as well.

Also, there are how many types of insurance products? So many people here answering based on their extremely limited experience with one type. LOL. This thread is going places.

Post #6

No need. I gave my best advice when I basically said asking anyone here is retarded to begin with. I also did state somewhere in some way what is wrong with the bulk of it. Read maybe?

Post #7

...

Edited: 12/01/2008 at 02:43 PM by SphinxnihpS

Care to point it out? Looks to me like you just made a whole bunch of troll posts.

Bolded it for ya.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

Originally posted by: sactoking

Originally posted by: SphinxnihpS
You're not a policy writer, so I disagree with your statement almost in total. Also, no one called you an agent.

Actually, yes you did when you said

LOLOLOLOLOL WOW, some of you are agents for insurance carriers? Get your E&O policies out, you're gonna need them soon I predict.

You implied that the people who were giving specific information were
a) agents
-and-
b) subject to E&O claims

I did not mention anyone by name. Clearly Uppsala is not an agent. When I said "No one called YOU an agent." I was speaking directly to Uppsala. When I said "some of you are agents..." I did not name names. Hmmm.

Care for any more cross, Counsel?

 

[MotionMan]

An oldie, but a goodie:

Why do people get insurance for ANYTHING? - It seems like such a waste.

MotionMan

 

[Uppsala9496]

Originally posted by: SphinxnihpS

Originally posted by: sactoking

Originally posted by: SphinxnihpS
You're not a policy writer, so I disagree with your statement almost in total. Also, no one called you an agent.

Actually, yes you did when you said

LOLOLOLOLOL WOW, some of you are agents for insurance carriers? Get your E&O policies out, you're gonna need them soon I predict.

You implied that the people who were giving specific information were
a) agents
-and-
b) subject to E&O claims

I did not mention anyone by name. Clearly Uppsala is not an agent. When I said "No one called YOU an agent." I was speaking directly to Uppsala. When I said "some of you are agents..." I did not name names. Hmmm.

Care for any more cross, Counsel?

Your statement implied that everyone commenting about things was an agent. I stated I was not and went into detail on what I do.
Do you have an insurance background? Ever work in insurance? Just trolling and reading crap off wikipedia?

 

[SphinxnihpS]

Originally posted by: BigJ
Are you going to have $100,000+ in cash when you hydroplane into a telephone pole and need to go to the hospital?

Short of being extremely wealthy, I don't know if anyone is in a position to set aside the cash for a real costly emergency.

Narrow viewpoint. Only thinking about auto liability coverage here. Numbers aren't congruent with reality.

Originally posted by: kranky
That statement is an oversimplification, but there is a nugget of truth to it.

I see a lot of people who have $100 deductible on their car insurance, or $250 deductible on their homeowner's insurance. If they raised those deductibles to $500 or $1000, they could save hundreds every year. You set aside some money to cover your deductible and use the insurance for the big losses, and end up ahead in the vast majority of cases.

Use insurance for big losses, not every little thing. In that context, I agree with the statement quoted by the OP.

'People don't need insurance if they save money for a rainy day'.

Where's the nugget? Some people buy the value meal. Tea, China?

Originally posted by: Pacemaker
I just find it strange that insurance is essentially you betting that something bad will happen to you and the insurance company betting that it won't.

Clueless. This is not a sum game. You do not "LOSE" the money you SPEND on insurance. You SPEND it! Looking at this like a balance sheet where you are trying to come out "ahead" is a pretty mangled understanding of insurance.

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus
Working in the insurance industry I have to say that is an ignorant statement.

Wait for it...

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus
Just as a side note statistic it takes about 3 years for us to start making money on a policy without any losses happening.

Please visit your actuarial department and ask one of the friendly mathematicians there to hit you upside the head with something heavy. This may be your only hope.

Underwriting losses are a true story, however you seem to have had yours told to you by Mother Goose.

Maybe one product (kind of like a loss leader), but not the whole company's line. That's clearly insane.

Originally posted by: Chiropteran

Originally posted by: BigJ
Are you going to have $100,000+ in cash when you hydroplane into a telephone pole and need to go to the hospital?

Standard maximum coverage for most insurance policies is $25k or $50k, so your silly example would hurt someone with insurance just as much if not more than someone who saved up money.

Of course, insurance is required by law in most places, so for that reason alone it makes sense.

Originally posted by: Turin39789
I've definetly seen single hospital stays that have cost more than $1 million. Don't imagine he will be saving that up anytime soon.

I seriously doubt you or anyone in this thread has insurance coverage that high. Check your policy, it probably maxes out at $50k.

Here's a real gem!

Who said anything about AUTO INSURANCE? Also, your numbers and ideas about maximum limits are straight up fucked!

I have over $1,000,000 per occurrence per person liability coverage on my autos. Should I consult my policy to make sure I'm not dreaming those numbers up?

While were at it, "insurance makes sense because it's the law'... ugh. IT'S THE LAW, BECAUSE IT MAKES SENSE, not the other way around. It's the law because there are people out there who are convinced it's a scam and wouldn't buy it otherwise. It's the law so the state doesn't have to pay for my hospital visit because YOU "couldn't afford" coverage.

Originally posted by: Chiropteran

Most of your silly examples would not be covered by insurance either, so I don't really get your point.

You must be a real star in your neighborhood.

Aside from the obvious simpletonism and douchebaggery going on here, my main problem with this thread is everyone is coming in here and speaking on the topic from a very limited viewpoint but with great authority. Sure we have a senior underwriter (seemingly working for a small company outside the governance of any insurance commission), and some other home office type, sure we have examples of personal experience with situations that nullify the OP's supposition (or the OP's cousin or whoever said that), but overall we have a VERY IRRESPONSIBLE group of people debating something serious here, and perfectly happy to give limited, common-sense, and often downright bad advice.

The only correct answer to the OP's query is, NO, that is not right. The rest is extraneous at best, mostly misguided, and could get someone in trouble if followed.

I don't think school or seminars or any sort of education is going to curb these types of responses, so I do my very best to make people feel like morons and retards for having provided incorrect answers. Hopefully this will discourage future outbreaks of dumb.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

Originally posted by: Uppsala9496

Originally posted by: SphinxnihpS

Originally posted by: sactoking

Originally posted by: SphinxnihpS
You're not a policy writer, so I disagree with your statement almost in total. Also, no one called you an agent.

Actually, yes you did when you said

LOLOLOLOLOL WOW, some of you are agents for insurance carriers? Get your E&O policies out, you're gonna need them soon I predict.

You implied that the people who were giving specific information were
a) agents
-and-
b) subject to E&O claims

I did not mention anyone by name. Clearly Uppsala is not an agent. When I said "No one called YOU an agent." I was speaking directly to Uppsala. When I said "some of you are agents..." I did not name names. Hmmm.

Care for any more cross, Counsel?

Your statement implied that everyone commenting about things was an agent. I stated I was not and went into detail on what I do.
Do you have an insurance background? Ever work in insurance? Just trolling and reading crap off wikipedia?

How. I clearly used the word "some". How is it you are in charge of anything when you can't comprehend a simple English sentence?

I have an extensive insurance background. I'm sure I have more problems with any entries on wiki than with this thread, but that is beside the point. The point is, who do you work for, and what specifically do you insure? You position and company seem to be the exception to all the rules, so obviously, since you are not a total retard, I am missing something about what you do, OR you, your company, etc. violate the law handily, OR some state commission has pretty relaxed laws about what is approved for sale in their state.

 

[Uppsala9496]

SphinxnihpS
"Also, there are how many types of insurance products? So many people here answering based on their extremely limited experience with one type. LOL. This thread is going places."

My experience: Health, dental, life, AD&D (accidental death and dismemberment), STD (short term disability), LTD (long term disability), public/private directors' and officers' liability, employment practices liability, fiduciary liability, lawyers professional liability, accountants professional liability, crime.

I am currently a member of PLUS (professional liability underwriting society). What that means is I am familiar with professional liability lines including all of the non-health related ones listed above in addition to real estate professionals, insurance professionals, miscellaneous professional, errors and omissions (wife actually underwrites E&O), media professional, cyber risk, financial institution bonds.

Do as you can see I have a lot more experience than one line of coverage. You could break it down to health and professional liability, but as stated above, the professional liability lines are numerous and run the gambit.
And you pointing out E&O....well, I am very familiar with that line of coverage.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

Haha, nice.

Just an aside. I love "breach of fiduciary responsibility" insurance. "Adjusting" those claims must be like dealing with a pile of scorpions on your private areas.

 

[sactoking]

Originally posted by: SphinxnihpS
The only correct answer to the OP's query is, NO, that is not right.

I agree 100%. The thread definitely got off-topic (what a surprise in the OT forum!) and got into insurance mechanics instead of the inherent value, or lack thereof, of insurance.

Aside from the obvious simpletonism and douchebaggery going on here, my main problem with this thread is everyone is coming in here and speaking on the topic from a very limited viewpoint but with great authority. Sure we have a senior underwriter (seemingly working for a small company outside the governance of any insurance commission), and some other home office type, sure we have examples of personal experience with situations that nullify the OP's supposition (or the OP's cousin or whoever said that), but overall we have a VERY IRRESPONSIBLE group of people debating something serious here, and perfectly happy to give limited, common-sense, and often downright bad advice.

I don't mean to pick on you, but your initial posts were kinda douchy. I mean, there were a lot of things being said and some people with knowledge of the inner workings (DisgruntledVirus, Uppsala, etc) tried to straighten out some of the misconceptions. The conversation was mainly focused on auto and health insurance, the two branches most likely to have knowledgeable contributors (From a numbers standpoint. You won't find many good sources on, say, Ministerial Bonds because it's a tiny market segment of insurance). You came in and said things to the effect of "You're all douchy losers who don't know what you're talking about". If you disagree with something one of the 'professionals' says, call them on it, but bring facts to the fight. If you disagree with one of the laypersons, give facts why so that other people can understand your reasoning. You seem to have spent a good deal of time marginalizing others' opinions without offering anything concrete of your own.

 

[Uppsala9496]

I currently underwrite directors' and officers' liability, employment practices liability, fiduciary liability and crime.
My wife currently underwrites employment practices liability, tenet discrimination and E&O (and yes we do discuss work at home since we work for different carriers - fun to talk about things sometimes).

All of the policies I underwrite are within state and federal guidelines. I am also 100% in compliance with my authority levels which means I am in compliance with SOX. I'm also in compliance with all SEC rules and regulations.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

Originally posted by: sactoking


I don't mean to pick on you, but your initial posts were kinda douchy. I mean, there were a lot of things being said and some people with knowledge of the inner workings (DisgruntledVirus, Uppsala, etc) tried to straighten out some of the misconceptions. The conversation was mainly focused on auto and health insurance, the two branches most likely to have knowledgeable contributors (From a numbers standpoint. You won't find many good sources on, say, Ministerial Bonds because it's a tiny market segment of insurance). You came in and said things to the effect of "You're all douchy losers who don't know what you're talking about". If you disagree with something one of the 'professionals' says, call them on it, but bring facts to the fight. If you disagree with one of the laypersons, give facts why so that other people can understand your reasoning. You seem to have spent a good deal of time marginalizing others' opinions without offering anything concrete of your own.

But that's my style. I never claimed to be polite or courteous. In fact, I like to make it damn hard to agree with me.

 

[Uppsala9496]

Originally posted by: SphinxnihpS
Haha, nice.

Just an aside. I love "breach of fiduciary responsibility" insurance. "Adjusting" those claims must be like dealing with a pile of scorpions on your private areas.

When it is a D&O claim, that line comes up near 100% of the time regardless of the actual claim. It is the catch-all to get the insurance to start defending since the policy is a duty to defend form. "Unfair business practices" is another good catch-all phrase that comes up.