What do you think about "right to work" states?

[blackangst1]

Im on the fence on this, Here in AZ theres a bill to eliminate right to work laws, but its mired in unions.

It all comes down to how you feel about unions. If you want the backing of a union fighting for things like higher pay and better work conditions, you likely would favor repealing right-to-work. But some people don’t want to be required to pay a union fee or have more union involvement in the workplace. “I was teaching and working for 50-60 hours a week for less than $30,000 and very few benefits,” said state Rep. Oscar De Los Santos, a Democrat from Laveen.

In general, Im anti-union. But that said, Im generally for right to work.

What do you guys think?

Lawmakers introduce controversial bill to repeal right-to-work law in Arizona (msn.com)

 

[MrSquished]

The exact opposite of you.

In general i am pro-union though I realize some have certain issues and problems that need to be addressed, but overall they are a much bigger benefit to workers even with these problems.

In general I am anti-right for work because it lets businesses treat people like cattle, but on some level it shouldn't be impossible to fire someone either. So a very watered down right to work is fine.

 

[Fenixgoon]

pro union but devil is in the details. in a perfect world, both sides (tm) - employers and unions - come to a reasonable agreement. but companies trying to extract every bit out of workers means unions are in many ways unreasonable as well.

but the balance of power is largely in favor of corporations, especially larger ones. so yeah, pro union.

From the article

“Research shows that states that are right-to-work tend to have better employment numbers, meaning generally that does attract businesses. However, again, to criticize that, those employees are generally paid less and receive less benefits,” said Black.

huh imagine that. when there are few employee protections, workers are treated like shit.

shocked. well, not that shocked.


edit:

in my current workplace (manufacturing facility), i am a non-union employee (engineer) but our technicians and assembly workers are unionized.

on the one hand, the union does a lot to protect their work and prevent abuses from management. they get overtime. sick benefits are, AFAIK, basically unlimited.

on the other hand, there's a lot of inflexibility to their work, and roles are strict. if you're a machinist, you best not turn a wrench somewhere or the mechanics will be pissed at you. they clock in and out every day, with hard starts and stops. i don't clock in or out, but i also have much more flexible hours. seniority is more rewarded/protected than skill.

double edit: changed the 1st sentence to say --- employers and unions --- come to a reasonable agreement

 

[BoomerD]

Im on the fence on this, Here in AZ theres a bill to eliminate right to work laws, but its mired in unions.



In general, Im anti-union. But that said, Im generally for right to work.

What do you guys think?

Lawmakers introduce controversial bill to repeal right-to-work law in Arizona (msn.com)

If you support right-to-work (for less) laws, you're anti-union. RTW is a strike against union bargaining power, against union solidarity, and union strength.
Funny enough, in MOST RTW (for less) states, if an employee in the general bargaining unit opts to not be a union member, the union is STILL obligated to represent them in all matters, just like they would a paying member.

 

[blackangst1]

If you support right-to-work (for less) laws, you're anti-union. RTW is a strike against union bargaining power, against union solidarity, and union strength.
Funny enough, in MOST RTW (for lees) states, if an employee in the general bargaining unit opts to not be a union member, the union is STILL obligated to represent them in all matters, just like they would a paying member.

Thanks for the extra commentary (forless). Although inaccurate, Ive already stated Im against unions. Appreciate your opinion though

 

[Meghan54]

Thanks for the extra commentary (forless). Although inaccurate, Ive already stated Im against unions. Appreciate your opinion though

It was a reference to the section in the article you yourself linked that non-union states tend to have lower pay and fewer benefits vs union states…no extra commentary. Just trying to show you that you, once again, fail in reading comprehension.

 

[WelshBloke]

Right to work (that's such a misnomer), no union, and no state health care leaves workers at such a disadvantage.
I'm not sure how anyone (that isn't trying to exploit someone) could support that position.

 

[darkswordsman17]

"I'm conflicted, I both hate unions and support right to work laws shitting on employees!"

I'm conflicted, I'm not sure if the OP is just dishonest or just that much of a dumbass. I think its both, and they feed off each other. He is both intentionally dishonest, but he's also really dumb and so often doesn't realize how blatantly obvious his dishonesty is, but also sometimes its not intentional dishonesty but rather he simply really doesn't know, so he genuinely comes to dishonest opinions.

AKA, posting in yet another inane blackangst thread wherein he shows that he doesn't understand basically any aspect of the thing he's posting about, but damnit, he demands we listen to his opinions and discuss them as though they are both salient and honest.

 

[darkswordsman17]

As for the actual issue, it will probably get nowhere in the state legislature because too many insane Republicans (supported and voted into office by the OP), wherein it'll probably get put on as a ballot measure, pass handily, only for those same Republicans to declare it unconstitutional or some other bullshit, it'll end up in court, probably be struck down over some technicality like a simple grammatical error, get rewritten then get back on, but during that time the crazed Republicans will have passed a law mandating that it both has to have fewer than Twitter character limit, but also somehow be all encompassing to all potential aspects and therefore it'll end up as a fairly toothless regulation, likely superseded by other changes (probably Federal) anyway. Until the OP helps get enough of the crazed shithouse rat Republicans into federal courts that they just decide to start declaring whatever they want is law and then he'll finally get his utopia.

 

[vi edit]

It's right to fire. Let's call it what it really is.

 

[Pohemi]

In general, Im anti-union. But that said, Im generally for right to work.
What do you guys think?

I think you're a goddamn idiot if you believe those two statements are somehow contradictory or opposite of each other. But I'm not surprised you might think so.

Thanks for the extra commentary (forless). Although inaccurate, Ive already stated Im against unions. Appreciate your opinion though

Show me how it's inaccurate, liar. Show some evidence or proof of your lies. I know you can't.

Your attempts to deny the reality of anything you don't like are pathetic and obvious.

It's right to fire. Let's call it what it really is.

THIS. So much this.

In my experience, right-to-work is mainly for employers to be able to fire employees for any or no reason at all, with no repercussions. The employee might be able to receive UE benefits, depending on the stated reason for termination given by the employer. But the employer can essentially give any reasoning they choose to, or none at all. It won't save the person their job.

It destroys job security and creates anxiety for lower level and unskilled employment positions. It allows manipulation through this anxiety to force things on workers (like lower pay, less benefits, shitty hours, etc.) It's only adding a rule to allow predation by the employers.

 

[blackangst1]

OK sorry for posting and trying to learn and spark conversation. Ill go back to not posting. I can do without the name calling.

Take care.

 

[crashtech]

Unions Are Critical to the Democratic Party’s Electoral Success:

Unions Are Critical to the Democratic Party’s Electoral Success

New CAP Action analysis finds that union members voted for the Democratic Party presidential candidate in much greater proportions than did nonunion members in 2020, cementing President Biden’s electoral victory and offering a path forward for the party to maintain and grow support.

www.americanprogressaction.org

This alone gives me ample reason to oppose today's labor unions, but for a little more, public sector unions (comprising over half of union workers now) directly appropriate taxpayer money intended for salaries to funnel to Democrat politicians. It's one thing to take from eeeevil corporations and give to the Dems, but directly robbing taxpayers is a really excellent scam.

FYI, I don't follow posts in P&N, so don't expect me to hang around for the virtual burning at the stake.

 

[MrSquished]

Unions Are Critical to the Democratic Party’s Electoral Success:

Unions Are Critical to the Democratic Party’s Electoral Success

New CAP Action analysis finds that union members voted for the Democratic Party presidential candidate in much greater proportions than did nonunion members in 2020, cementing President Biden’s electoral victory and offering a path forward for the party to maintain and grow support.

www.americanprogressaction.org

This alone gives me ample reason to oppose today's labor unions, but for a little more, public sector unions (comprising over half of union workers now) directly appropriate taxpayer money intended for salaries to funnel to Democrat politicians. It's one thing to take from eeeevil corporations and give to the Dems, but directly robbing taxpayers is a really excellent scam.

FYI, I don't follow posts in P&N, so don't expect me to hang around for the virtual burning at the stake.

Sure we won't wait around, but if your primary reason is you hate something because they support a certain political party more than others, well, you are useless in any debate anyway. All you are saying is 'hi, I'm a partisan hack, I have no ability to discuss anything with reason and facts and logic because I just hate it because they lean Dem, so am not open to actual debate'

So yes, you suck and please run away.

 

[vi edit]

I can nuance unions. I'm mature and intelligent enough to separate out what I hate about say...police and teachers unions. But can also respect that if it weren't for unions we'd just be a slightly less shitty China. Our level of wealth as an individual didn't get here out of thin air. It came from people banding together and telling employers to fuck off and treat them as actual humans.

If corporations can lobby congress for favorable regulations and tax breaks, unions are one of the few protections many people have to help fight for their own rights.

 

[woolfe9998]

In general, Im anti-union. But that said, Im generally for right to work.

You don't seem to realize that these two sentences are consistent, not contradictory.

 

[DaaQ]

Not all unions are the same, they are only as good as the people that run each Local or Region. UFCW is not at all comparable to the UAW.

That being said, Unions are really Democratic as in Democracy, with voting and the way they hold their meetings and do their By-Laws.

One thing I do hold against the unions, is the tying of healthcare to the employer. Yes it was necessary back in the 40s and 50s+ but it set the precedent. Which I think has been an issue with being able to get single payer system off the ground, or Medicare for all.

Right to work is a play on peoples greed, and also their living paycheck to paycheck, by allowing them to not be forced to join a union in a union shop.

Is 2 hours of pay a month really too high for your union fees? That was UAW prior to 2007 AFAIR.

 

[Vic]

Im on the fence on this, Here in AZ theres a bill to eliminate right to work laws, but its mired in unions.



In general, Im anti-union. But that said, Im generally for right to work.

What do you guys think?

Lawmakers introduce controversial bill to repeal right-to-work law in Arizona (msn.com)

I think I'd like to know why you don't believe that labor should have the same right to organize and other legal protections that capital has.

 

[Vic]

Unions Are Critical to the Democratic Party’s Electoral Success:

Unions Are Critical to the Democratic Party’s Electoral Success

New CAP Action analysis finds that union members voted for the Democratic Party presidential candidate in much greater proportions than did nonunion members in 2020, cementing President Biden’s electoral victory and offering a path forward for the party to maintain and grow support.

www.americanprogressaction.org

This alone gives me ample reason to oppose today's labor unions, but for a little more, public sector unions (comprising over half of union workers now) directly appropriate taxpayer money intended for salaries to funnel to Democrat politicians. It's one thing to take from eeeevil corporations and give to the Dems, but directly robbing taxpayers is a really excellent scam.

FYI, I don't follow posts in P&N, so don't expect me to hang around for the virtual burning at the stake.

Do you also complain about police unions contributing to Republican politicians?

 

[Zorba]

If you support right-to-work (for less) laws, you're anti-union. RTW is a strike against union bargaining power, against union solidarity, and union strength.
Funny enough, in MOST RTW (for lees) states, if an employee in the general bargaining unit opts to not be a union member, the union is STILL obligated to represent them in all matters, just like they would a paying member.

Yeah, I'm against RTW because the employees that opt out still get all the union benefits without paying for it. It's just a way to weaken the unions.

 

[cytg111]

Its a pretty straight forward choice between thumbing the scale in favor of the employee or in favor of the employer… and if you dont think capitalism has run amok in the US by now I dont know anything will tell you otherwise.

 

[sportage]

Right to work is crapola. And the term "right to work" means quite the opposite. They make it sound like "right to work" is a benefit given the worker, to the employee, where in fact is only a benefit given to the employer. The corporation. A little word play to deceive. Like calling anti-abortion as being pro-life, yet also supporting capital punishment. Define "LIFE"?
Again... just a little word play. And the best word play of them all.... the term MAGA. "Make America Great Again". Then, they define GREAT AGAIN as government insurrection, as voter suppression.
Always beware of the WORD PLAY.

 

[ivwshane]

I’ve never been part of a union that I liked or that I thought did anything to help the workers. That being said, I support the right of workers to unionize. If a company is being such an ass that workers feel they need to unionize then I’m all for it.

Personally I’d rather have better regulations that protect the workers and a government that puts its thumb on the scale in favor of the worker. As it stands now, I feel both regulations and unions are rather weak and do little for most workers.

 

[theeedude]

I don't think you should be fired for not joining a union but I also don't think you should get benefits of union collective bargaining without joining the union. If you think you are better off bargaining individually with a multi-billion dollar corporation, have at it, but don't freeload off the union.

 

[digiram]

If unions are so bad, why do police have one?