What do you think about partial-birth abortions?

[CaptnKirk]

Mandatory, retroactive and statring with our Goverment representatives.

 

[Shad0hawK]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
What do you think about pro-life extremists shooting abortion doctors in the head? Blowing up clinics? Creating public "hit lists" of doctors they plan to kill? Cutting off funding to 3rd-world health orgs that provide life or death care for the world's impoverished? Disgusting.

Stupid thread OP. And your bias is showing.

i i think if we count each murder as an instance of being "wrong" the pro-life extremists were wrong 7 times to the pro choice extremists were wrong around 40 million times.


*edit* one more question Dealmonkey, how is she biased simply by stating a medical fact? a baby partially born IS alive. the whole reason the procedure even occurs is to kill it.

 

[DealMonkey]

Just like the Supreme Court has mandated that everyone must have sodomy, soon they will mandate that everyone must have abortions too! Attrocious. And to think, this is the same USSC that gave us that mana from heaven, George Bush! Appalling! Shocking! Can we contact Pat Robertson and get a prayer vigil started against those supreme court justices again? God will make them "retire" if we all pray hard enough.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Shad0hawK

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
What do you think about pro-life extremists shooting abortion doctors in the head? Blowing up clinics? Creating public "hit lists" of doctors they plan to kill? Cutting off funding to 3rd-world health orgs that provide life or death care for the world's impoverished? Disgusting.

Stupid thread OP. And your bias is showing.

i i think if we count each murder as an instance of being "wrong" the pro-life extremists were wrong 7 times to the pro choice extremists were wrong around 40 million times.

It's a shame that we weren't wrong 40 million and 1 times

 

[glenn1]

What do you think about partial-birth abortions?

I think it's the wrong fight for the pro-choice crowd to pick. Use a bit of common sense and put your energies into more productive debates where you stand a chance, since you have no chance of winning this one. Your side has legitimate arguments to bring to the table, but you make yourselves look like fanatics who can't be reasoned with to consider any reasonable limitations on anything abortion-related when you defend this procedure.

Pro-lifers, don't delude yourself into thinking this law means that there's any broader degree of support for limiting abortions than this one procedure. You've (successfully) managed to limit a particularly gruesome method, but that doesn't mean that the vast majority of the public will welcome expanding this into yet more limitations. This is a one-time deal, and you shouldn't test their patience by attempting to parlay your gains into something bigger, else you're likely to lose whatever goodwill you've accumulated for pushing through the ban on this one procedure.

 

[Trevelyan]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Just like the Supreme Court has mandated that everyone must have sodomy, soon they will mandate that everyone must have abortions too! Attrocious. And to think, this is the same USSC that gave us that mana from heaven, George Bush! Appalling! Shocking! Can we contact Pat Robertson and get a prayer vigil started against those supreme court justices again? God will make them "retire" if we all pray hard enough.

Hey man you might wanna tuck that back in... you got a little bias there...

 

[Geekbabe]

Originally posted by: MonkeyK
Partial Birth abortion is a term created just to sound as horrible as possible. The idea seems to be to associate a medically neccessary and relatively rare procedure with abortions in general.

Description of "Partial Birth abortion"

Sure, the procedure is disgusting, but it is not an elective thing. There are a lot of things that are horrible in the world, and not all of them are avoidable.

A lot of them happen due to grave fetal deformities,like a fetus who develops without a brain,a child who will die at birth or shortly thereafter.I can't imagine finding out such a thing at 6 months along and then being forced to carry to term anyway.

 

[Geekbabe]

Originally posted by: MonkeyK
Partial Birth abortion is a term created just to sound as horrible as possible. The idea seems to be to associate a medically neccessary and relatively rare procedure with abortions in general.

Description of "Partial Birth abortion"

Sure, the procedure is disgusting, but it is not an elective thing. There are a lot of things that are horrible in the world, and not all of them are avoidable.

A lot of them happen due to grave fetal deformities,like a fetus who develops without a brain,a child who will die at birth or shortly thereafter.I can't imagine finding out such a thing at 6 months along and then being forced to carry to term anyway.

 

[Shad0hawK]

here is the stark reality beyond the minimalist BS

Right or wrong made simple


dont go getting all offended, these are not pictures of people.

 

[Sternfan]

Originally posted by: MonkeyK
Partial Birth abortion is a term created just to sound as horrible as possible. The idea seems to be to associate a medically neccessary and relatively rare procedure with abortions in general.

Description of "Partial Birth abortion"

Sure, the procedure is disgusting, but it is not an elective thing. There are a lot of things that are horrible in the world, and not all of them are avoidable.

There are a couple of good threads on this and its not rare it happens alot.

 

[naddicott]

What, no poll?

I favor a free market solution. :evil:

If there is demand, there should be a supply. If the bible beaters don't want a partial-birth abortion themselves, they don't have to get one.

Perhaps if there could be an alternate procedure that gets the baby out in a safer manner, we could mandate that procedure and give pro-lifers the option of paying for premie costs at the hospital and adopting the resulting babies.

If I want to pay for a doctor to safely remove something that's in my body that I don't want there, I don't think there should be a law preventing him/her from doing so. By asking for it to be removed, I would consider it reasonable to presume I'm relinquishing any rights to what is being removed. Assuming there is no buyer for the removed thing, I should probably be responsible for an appropriate disposal fee. If the doctor isn't allowed to take it out, there's always the trusty coathanger - it has been done before in the US and goes on regularly elsewhere where doctors aren't allowed to conduct safe medical procedures.

(P.S. Yes this is flame bait. I seriously have no problem with abortions at any stage, however.)

 

[ReiAyanami]

if a 3rd trimester abortion isn't wrong, then why not a 43rd trimester abortion? (reference to southpark, eric cartman's mom)

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: glenn1

What do you think about partial-birth abortions?

I think it's the wrong fight for the pro-choice crowd to pick. Use a bit of common sense and put your energies into more productive debates where you stand a chance, since you have no chance of winning this one. Your side has legitimate arguments to bring to the table, but you make yourselves look like fanatics who can't be reasoned with to consider any reasonable limitations on anything abortion-related when you defend this procedure.

Pro-lifers, don't delude yourself into thinking this law means that there's any broader degree of support for limiting abortions than this one procedure. You've (successfully) managed to limit a particularly gruesome method, but that doesn't mean that the vast majority of the public will welcome expanding this into yet more limitations. This is a one-time deal, and you shouldn't test their patience by attempting to parlay your gains into something bigger, else you're likely to lose whatever goodwill you've accumulated for pushing through the ban on this one procedure.

There are exceptions, but most of them aren't "pro-life", they are anti-abortion. There is a difference.

By the way, here is our last flame-fest on the issue. The oh-so-compassionate Bush-lite administration sentenced thousands of African women and children to death because one of the seven agencies providing pre-natal and related health care in Africa also provides services in China, where abortion is legal.

Note than none of these seven agencies were performing abortions. In fact, the "guilty" agency was distributing contraceptives in China, thus reducing abortions. Oh well, when you are (self-)righteous, sometimes you have to kill people to save them.

(But that's just my $0.02 worth.)

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: naddicott
What, no poll?

I favor a free market solution. :evil:

If there is demand, there should be a supply. If the bible beaters don't want a partial-birth abortion themselves, they don't have to get one.

Perhaps if there could be an alternate procedure that gets the baby out in a safer manner, we could mandate that procedure and give pro-lifers the option of paying for premie costs at the hospital and adopting the resulting babies.

If I want to pay for a doctor to safely remove something that's in my body that I don't want there, I don't think there should be a law preventing him/her from doing so. By asking for it to be removed, I would consider it reasonable to presume I'm relinquishing any rights to what is being removed. Assuming there is no buyer for the removed thing, I should probably be responsible for an appropriate disposal fee. If the doctor isn't allowed to take it out, there's always the trusty coathanger - it has been done before in the US and goes on regularly elsewhere where doctors aren't allowed to conduct safe medical procedures.

(P.S. Yes this is flame bait. I seriously have no problem with abortions at any stage, however.)

The problem with this mentality is that at a certain point, a fetus becomes human. After that point, you are not just removing something that's in your body that you don't want there, but you are affecting another life. Unfortunately we don't know the exact point that a fetus becomes human, or why it becomes human. As far as I am concerned, until we know EXACTLY when this is, ALL abortion is wrong (minus a few rare cases). Better safe than sorry...

 

[Insane3D]

Repost

PSA from your local "murder advocate".

 

[Zebo]

All killing is wrong and/or selfish.

But I can't stand those christian fundies pro-selfish, pro-capital punisment/pro-war hypocrisy. They need to get out of the debate or at least come in with a consistant message to have any credibilty. As of now NO ONE takes them seriously.

 

[rickn]

my opinion is, when old grey hair congressmen can start having babies, until then they should leave women alone.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: rickn
my opinion is, when old grey hair congressmen can start having babies, until then they should leave women alone.

And when you can afford to own slaves, until then you should leave slave owners alone.

 

[rickn]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: rickn
my opinion is, when old grey hair congressmen can start having babies, until then they should leave women alone.

And when you can afford to own slaves, until then you should leave slave owners alone.

are you looking for work?

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: rickn

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: rickn
my opinion is, when old grey hair congressmen can start having babies, until then they should leave women alone.

And when you can afford to own slaves, until then you should leave slave owners alone.

are you looking for work?

You missed the point. We makes laws all the time about others for a heathy society. Just because you have no direct involment with the issue does'nt mean your vote does'nt count.. In a democracy at least that how it works...

 

[rickn]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: rickn

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: rickn
my opinion is, when old grey hair congressmen can start having babies, until then they should leave women alone.

And when you can afford to own slaves, until then you should leave slave owners alone.

are you looking for work?

You missed the point. We makes laws all the time about others for a heathy society. Just because you have no direct involment with the issue does'nt mean your vote does'nt count.. In a democracy at least that how it works...

tell that to the women who will now be forced to go to some back alley and get mutilated by some surgeon who got his medical degree out of a cracker jack box.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: rickn

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: rickn

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: rickn
my opinion is, when old grey hair congressmen can start having babies, until then they should leave women alone.

And when you can afford to own slaves, until then you should leave slave owners alone.

are you looking for work?

You missed the point. We makes laws all the time about others for a heathy society. Just because you have no direct involment with the issue does'nt mean your vote does'nt count.. In a democracy at least that how it works...

tell that to the women who will now be forced to go to some back alley and get mutilated by some surgeon who got his medical degree out of a cracker jack box.

Shes not forced to do any such thing! Anymore than I'm forced to kill my 5 yr old whos giving me lip and costing me money and time.

The old "you can't stop them anyway" "boys will be boys" excuse huh. Does'nt work with me. Even RIAA is finding out thier enforcement of copy-right laws recently has been extremly succesful in curbing the law breakers. The women will take reposibility for her actions and less abortions will occur if we outlaw them. Much like Ireland who hardy has any vs. our 2million a year. Some will die in back alleys to be sure, but less children will be killed too.

 

[kage69]

It's a disgusting procedure and all I can say it's about time it got banned. I support the pro-choice camp to an extent - a woman should not be forced to bear a rapists child for example. I find abortion unacceptable once the fetus has already had the chance to develop into a sentient being. There's an undeniable difference between a cluster of cells and a 6 month old fetus.

All killing is wrong and/or selfish.

You are wrong. Would it be selfish of me to say, use deadly force against some muggers who have announced their intentions to kill me and then rape my wife? I will optimistically agree that no one takes the Christian fundies seriously though.

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: rickn
my opinion is, when old grey hair congressmen can start having babies, until then they should leave women alone.

Perhaps prostitution shouldn't be illegal then. Who are these congressmen to tell a woman (or man) what she can or cannot do with her body?

Heck, we should even allow women to murder at will... how dare the government tell them that it is illegal...

 

[Gravity]

While in college I did two papers on abortion. It seems to affect women emotionally for decades afterwards. 2/3 of woman that have abortions will suffer what they call "anniversary delusions" where the mom gets a visit from the child at the age it might have been. Also, larger studies (100,000 or more) indicate that there is a minimum of 10% serious medical side effects to the procedure including infection, bleeding (hemoraging) and even death.

The partial birth is a little more complicated. Just think, emotionally, your baby was almost born and could have lived. There are many tales of abortion clinic nurses killing off the babies that didn't die from the procedure, some have been prosecuted for it but these cases are in a societal grey zone.

If you believe that life begins at conception, then you have to believe that the consequences of this procedure impact the lives of those that are involved, not to mention the little tike that get's their life ended. 4 inches from life...that's gotta suck!

Gravity