What do you know about BYU?

[Orsorum]

Specifically, their law school. I am looking at law schools, and BYU actually ranked fairly high. It also had inexpensive tuition. However, I'm not exactly a model Mormon. I should clarify: I am not a Mormon, nor have I ever been. I have some close family friends that are very devout Mormons, and I respect them greatly. I was raised agnostic, was a Christian for about four years, and became agnostic again a year ago.

Any ideas as to how good the school is and how tough admissions are?

 

[Zugzwang152]

Originally posted by: Orsorum
Specifically, their law school. I am looking at law schools, and BYU actually ranked fairly high. It also had inexpensive tuition. However, I'm not exactly a model Mormon.

Any ideas as to how good the school is and how tough admissions are?

coming from someone with a mormon background, i'd advise you not to apply there unless you're planning on converting. The whole place drips with Mormon-ism

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: Zugzwang152
coming from someone with a mormon background, i'd advise you not to apply there unless you're planning on converting. The whole place drips with Mormon-ism

One of my father's long-time business associates lived there for a couple years while he was in the military. "You can spend your money on more than just booze and drugs" - direct quote from my dad.

Apparently Mormon women aren't quite the bastion of fidelity. :Q

Would my non-mormonism affect my chances for admission?

 

[FoBoT]

as an undergraduate, you are required to sign a pledge to follow certain standards including those of honesty, respectful treatment of others, and modesty and dignity in dress and grooming. i don't know for sure if the law school falls under there same requirements, but it probably does

so if you are a person of low morals/ethics , then you would probably have to violate your pledge, but then, if you have low morals, you probably wouldn't care about breaking it. but in theory, they can kick you out for breaking the honor code

a lot of non-members (especially athletes) attend, so i dunno

linked - Honor Code

be sure to note the sections titled "Live a Chaste and Virtuous Life" and "Abstain From Alcoholic Beverages, Tobacco, Tea, Coffee, and Substance Abuse"

so if you are into sex outside of marriage/p0rn or booze/drugs , don't bother

 

[Orsorum]

Bump.

 

[pyonir]

I know their sports teams will not, under any circumstances, play on sundays.

 

[Spoooon]

They kicked that one girl from Real World out of the school for her behavior while taping the show.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: Spoooon
They kicked that one girl from Real World out of the school for her behavior while taping the show.

Really? Yikes.

 

[BeeVo]

It is as good or bad of a place as you want to make it. You can do just about anything there that you can do just about anyplace else. It isn't terribly hard to get in(about 3.7 and 24act are the minimum but doesn't necessarily mean you will get in). As for tuition it is a lot higher for non-mormons than mormons. Over twice as much if you aren't a mormon. It is a pretty good law school. I work for a lawyer firm in SLC and a couple of the lawyers from there are from BYU.

 

[thirtythree]

I don't know the answer to your question but I'm wondering if they'll admit someone who broke away from the LDS church as a non-LDS student.

 

[ATLien247]

Originally posted by: BeeVo
It is as good or bad of a place as you want to make it. You can do just about anything there that you can do just about anyplace else. It isn't terribly hard to get in(about 3.7 and 24act are the minimum but doesn't necessarily mean you will get in). As for tuition it is a lot higher for non-mormons than mormons. Over twice as much if you aren't a mormon. It is a pretty good law school. I work for a lawyer firm in SLC and a couple of the lawyers from there are from BYU.

What law firm?

 

[thirtythree]

Originally posted by: BeeVo
It is as good or bad of a place as you want to make it. You can do just about anything there that you can do just about anyplace else. It isn't terribly hard to get in(about 3.7 and 24act are the minimum but doesn't necessarily mean you will get in). As for tuition it is a lot higher for non-mormons than mormons. Over twice as much if you aren't a mormon. It is a pretty good law school. I work for a lawyer firm in SLC and a couple of the lawyers from there are from BYU.

doesn't look like it's over twice as much to me.

EDIT: and it's still a whole lot cheaper than most other colleges.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: BeeVo
It is as good or bad of a place as you want to make it. You can do just about anything there that you can do just about anyplace else. It isn't terribly hard to get in(about 3.7 and 24act are the minimum but doesn't necessarily mean you will get in). As for tuition it is a lot higher for non-mormons than mormons. Over twice as much if you aren't a mormon. It is a pretty good law school. I work for a lawyer firm in SLC and a couple of the lawyers from there are from BYU.

Their prices are still competitive for a law school. I am asking about admissions chances for a non-LDS agnostic.

 

[thirtythree]

this is under "new freshman admission" but it might also apply to you:

all students preparing for byu should live their lives in harmony with the principles of the restored gospel of jesus christ. it is required that each applicant be endorsed by his or her ecclesiastical leader (bishop and a member of the stake presidency for lds applicants). non-lds applicants need to be endorsed by their own ecclesiastical leader or an lds bishop. applicants who are not endorsed will not be admitted, regardless of other qualifications.

I'm not sure exactly what it takes to be "endorsed" by an lds bishop.

 

[rahvin]

Orsorum,

You wouldn't like it. In particular you better pay very good attention to the Fobot's post. The moral code at BYU is STRICTLY enforced. I'm not sure about graduates but undergraduates MUST live in BYU approved housing. This means your neighbors watch you and report you for ANY honor code violations including partying or having women in your room (both are violations). Such silly rules as no member of the opposite sex can be in your apartment after 9:00 and you can't go in a room with a bed together unless others are present to verify that nothing goes on and the blinds have to be kept open.

If they find out you have premarital sex you will be expelled. If they find out you had a drink or smoked anything you will be expelled. There are rarely expceptions given to these rules and there is practically a zero tollerance policy (exceptions would be high LDS church connections).

Oh I also forgot to add, any shorts worn on campus must be knee length, you are not allowed facial hair (well trimmed mustaches are allowed but frowned upon) you cannot have long hair (guys) and I believe only recently did they allow Jeans on campus.

 

[thirtythree]

Originally posted by: rahvin
Such silly rules as no member of the opposite sex can be in your apartment after 9:00...

I've had six siblings go to byu and I don't think this was ever really a problem. I think the time is midnight, not nine, and I remember my sister joking about having a guy leave at midnight then coming back in at 12:01. my brother has been to a few parties down there and he says people are always spiking the drinks and such so apparently the no drinking policy isn't enforced as well as you say it is. also I've never heard that jeans weren't allowed.

 

[yukichigai]

From the Honor Code

Non-LDS students are to be endorsed by (1) the local ecclesiastical leader if the student is an active member of the congregation, (2) the bishop of the LDS ward in which they currently reside, or (3) the non-denominational BYU chaplain.

Better hope that chaplain likes you if you're serious.

EDIT: Also interesting, their Clean Living policy mentions tea and coffee, but not caffiene. Kinda left a loophole there now didn't they?

 

[gopunk]

well if it means a good school and cheap tuition, i don't see a problem with just faking it...

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: Deslocke

Originally posted by: rahvin
Such silly rules as no member of the opposite sex can be in your apartment after 9:00...

I've had six siblings go to byu and I don't think this was ever really a problem. I think the time is midnight, not nine, and I remember my sister joking about having a guy leave at midnight then coming back in at 12:01. my brother has been to a few parties down there and he says people are always spiking the drinks and such so apparently the no drinking policy isn't enforced as well as you say it is. also I've never heard that jeans weren't allowed.

Hmm I remember it being 9 when I was in college but that was a FEW years ago.

Off-Campus Visiting Hours

Visitors of the opposite sex are permitted in living rooms and kitchens but not in bedrooms in off-campus living units. The use of the bathroom area by members of the opposite sex is not appropriate unless emergency or civility dictate otherwise; and then only if the safety, privacy and sensitivity of other residents are not jeopardized. Visiting hours may begin at 9 a.m. and extend until midnight. Friday night visiting hours may extend until 1:30 a.m. Landlords may establish a shorter visiting period if proper notice is given to residents. This policy applies to all housing units occupied by single students.

Each member of the university community has not only an individual obligation to sustain and preserve the Honor Code but a shared responsibility to help others do likewise. This responsibility extends beyond the physical boundaries of campus and is intended to maintain a total living environment conducive to the presence of the Spirit of the Lord.

This is the requirement that you rat out your neighbors. I know parties go on down in Happy Valley, but I'll tell you that if you are caught you will be expelled without an appeal. They routinely send "honor cops" out to bars and clubs to write down the license plates of all the cars so that they can be compared against BYU student records.

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: yukichigai
From the Honor Code

Non-LDS students are to be endorsed by (1) the local ecclesiastical leader if the student is an active member of the congregation, (2) the bishop of the LDS ward in which they currently reside, or (3) the non-denominational BYU chaplain.

Better hope that chaplain likes you if you're serious.

EDIT: Also interesting, their Clean Living policy mentions tea and coffee, but not caffiene. Kinda left a loophole there now didn't they?

I'm not sure what type of loophole you are refering to. Caffiene is not banned by the Church's Word of Wisdom, Coffee and Tea are, regardless if they have caffiene or not.

 

[yukichigai]

Originally posted by: rahvin
They routinely send "honor cops" out to bars and clubs to write down the license plates of all the cars so that they can be compared against BYU student records.

Moral of the story: walking is good.

 

[thirtythree]

perhaps the curfew is 9 for on-campus housing and midnight (1:30 on friday nights) for off-campus housing. I don't know why they'd do that though.

 

[yukichigai]

Originally posted by: rahvin
I'm not sure what type of loophole you are refering to. Caffiene is not banned by the Church's Word of Wisdom, Coffee and Tea are, regardless if they have caffiene or not.

I would assume they were banned because of the caffiene content. If not, then why were they banned?

 

[thirtythree]

Originally posted by: yukichigai

Originally posted by: rahvin
I'm not sure what type of loophole you are refering to. Caffiene is not banned by the Church's Word of Wisdom, Coffee and Tea are, regardless if they have caffiene or not.

I would assume they were banned because of the caffiene content. If not, then why were they banned?

I think that is why they were banned but I'm guessing they didn't have caffeinated soda back when the word of wisdom was written. supposedly one of the prophets told members not to drink caffeinated soda and devout mormons (such as my parents) don't. then again, my parents won't use playing cards either.

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: yukichigai

Originally posted by: rahvin
I'm not sure what type of loophole you are refering to. Caffiene is not banned by the Church's Word of Wisdom, Coffee and Tea are, regardless if they have caffiene or not.

I would assume they were banned because of the caffiene content. If not, then why were they banned?

You would have to ask Joseph Smith. They didn't know even what caffiene was back in the 1800's. Hell you could buy opiate "tonics" over the counter.