What do you guys think of affirmative action?

[illustri]

i'd only like affirmative action if it was in my favor, but since there are pittily shiat handouts for asian americans, i don't

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: illustri
i'd only like affirmative action if it was in my favor, but since there are pittily shiat handouts for asian americans, i don't

That's true, and really weird. Supposedly we're to help "Minorities", but there are FAR fewer Asians than blacks or hispanics in America and yet they're left out. It's like a confirmation of their racist belief that some people are just plain superior to others. Apparently the AA advocates are the ones who *most sincerely* believe that having darker skin makes you too stupid to succeed on your own.

Sad, really.

Jason

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: importdistributors
Personally, I think it is garbage, People should be selected to go to universities based on aptitude rather than skin colour.

Just like we select President's based on their Religion affiliation.

 

[Buck Armstrong]

I believe it was necessary for all sorts of reasons in the past...but not anymore.

 

[MCWAR]

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by: importdistributors
Personally, I think it is garbage, People should be selected to go to universities based on aptitude rather than skin colour.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Just like we select President's based on their Religion affiliation
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

dmcowen, is that why you elected our president?
I thought we elected him because of the total lack of backbone the rest of the candidates exhibit.

 

[Brackis]

It is a proven fact that minorities such as blacks and hispanics have a lower standard of living on average than whites.
As a wealthy, suburban raised caucasian male I am perfectly willing to accept Affirmative Action because regardless of any "perks" assoaciated with being a minority that may arise when apply for a job or college, minorites are still looked at when walking down the street as inferior and even risky individuals. (ie... they get watched when entering a store)

Having people from a multitude of backgrounds and ethnicites stimulates intellectual thought and awareness in settings of higher education. Thus, there is a value to creating a diverse workplace or classroom.

If you are stupid enough to think that you cannot succeed in life because of affirmative action, you shouldn't be getting a spot at a job or a college in the first place.

As an interesting fact, the Washington Post reported last year that just over 40 people who categorized themselves as African American on the SAT scored above a 1500 in the entire nation. In comparision, in my close circle of friends who I see on a weekly basis I know 5 white caucasians who scored above a 1500. It would be foolish on the long term to leave blacks and other minorities as uneducated and unproductive groups in society, but they remain there because on the short term it stings white americans looking for jobs and education.

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Just like we select President's based on their Religion affiliation.

Better than choosing President's based on their military history...

 

[slyedog]

oh crap! DMC is on the hemp again

 

[kogase]

Originally posted by: Brackis
It is a proven fact that minorities such as blacks and hispanics have a lower standard of living on average than whites.
As a wealthy, suburban raised caucasian male I am perfectly willing to accept Affirmative Action because regardless of any "perks" assoaciated with being a minority that may arise when apply for a job or college, minorites are still looked at when walking down the street as inferior and even risky individuals. (ie... they get watched when entering a store)

Having people from a multitude of backgrounds and ethnicites stimulates intellectual thought and awareness in settings of higher education. Thus, there is a value to creating a diverse workplace or classroom.

If you are stupid enough to think that you cannot succeed in life because of affirmative action, you shouldn't be getting a spot at a job or a college in the first place.

As an interesting fact, the Washington Post reported last year that just over 40 people who categorized themselves as African American on the SAT scored above a 1500 in the entire nation. In comparision, in my close circle of friends who I see on a weekly basis I know 5 white caucasians who scored above a 1500. It would be foolish on the long term to leave blacks and other minorities as uneducated and unproductive groups in society, but they remain there because on the short term it stings white americans looking for jobs and education.

The problem with your "interesting fact" in the last paragraph is that that could be interpreted as proving blacks are less intelligent than whites (note that I don't believe this). SATs have less to do with knowledge and more to do with intelligence. For example, I got a 740 on a biology SAT, but I came close to failing that class, as I did not pay attention. I know nothing about biology.

 

[Brackis]

Originally posted by: kogase

Originally posted by: Brackis
It is a proven fact that minorities such as blacks and hispanics have a lower standard of living on average than whites.
As a wealthy, suburban raised caucasian male I am perfectly willing to accept Affirmative Action because regardless of any "perks" assoaciated with being a minority that may arise when apply for a job or college, minorites are still looked at when walking down the street as inferior and even risky individuals. (ie... they get watched when entering a store)

Having people from a multitude of backgrounds and ethnicites stimulates intellectual thought and awareness in settings of higher education. Thus, there is a value to creating a diverse workplace or classroom.

If you are stupid enough to think that you cannot succeed in life because of affirmative action, you shouldn't be getting a spot at a job or a college in the first place.

As an interesting fact, the Washington Post reported last year that just over 40 people who categorized themselves as African American on the SAT scored above a 1500 in the entire nation. In comparision, in my close circle of friends who I see on a weekly basis I know 5 white caucasians who scored above a 1500. It would be foolish on the long term to leave blacks and other minorities as uneducated and unproductive groups in society, but they remain there because on the short term it stings white americans looking for jobs and education.

The problem with your "interesting fact" in the last paragraph is that that could be interpreted as proving blacks are less intelligent than whites (note that I don't believe this). SATs have less to do with knowledge and more to do with intelligence. For example, I got a 740 on a biology SAT, but I came close to failing that class, as I did not pay attention. I know nothing about biology.

I would disagree. SATs have more to do with schooling, preparation for testing, tutoring, and how well fundamental math and English skills were taught to you. This regarding the SAT1, not subject tests which are vastly different and scored differently as well.

If a minority, coming from a background/area where it is more difficult to achieve, can have a resume worthy of a school or job it should be taken into consideration when picking from a list of candidates. It can imply a strong work ethic and determination, where as you so keenly demonstrated, a lazy SOB can get a decent score on an SAT2 which would not translated strictly when looking at numbers and ignoring background.

 

[frankie38]

Definition:

Affirmative action" means positive steps taken to increase the representation of women and minorities in areas of employment, education, and business from which they have been historically excluded.

 

[beyoku]

Im a black male with a twist of black foot. AA was needed and is not needed anymore cause there is no more rasicm plain and simple. 😕

Maybe we should start to consider the source of why we would need something like AA and these racist fvcks that grew up loving the old ways - and are now in positions of power in regards to employments start seeing people on what they can do / know.

Are you people blind, dumb, or stupid or all 3? Im sure you know of black people that have been followed/watch while shopping - why would you NOT think people in places of power dont have some of the same ideas and misconceptions as the store clerk? Do you really think that whites LOOSE more jops because of AA than blacks do because of RACISM? take a little trip to www.OMGYIF.com
You already have the skewed thought that somehow a person is taking "YOUR" job because AA and they have "LESS QUALIFICATIONS" - right there your show your true colours in the subconscious. - they Job is already YOURS and the black person that got it from you is "unqualified" and only got the position because of AA. People like your are the reason something as stupid as AA exist because your would give the job to yourself soley based on the colour of your skin.
i really cant believe that people say some of the things they do......😕

EDIT: As frankie posted - if two people have the same qualifications the under-represented person should always get teh spot - IMO of course.

 

[kogase]

Originally posted by: Brackis

Originally posted by: kogase

Originally posted by: Brackis
It is a proven fact that minorities such as blacks and hispanics have a lower standard of living on average than whites.
As a wealthy, suburban raised caucasian male I am perfectly willing to accept Affirmative Action because regardless of any "perks" assoaciated with being a minority that may arise when apply for a job or college, minorites are still looked at when walking down the street as inferior and even risky individuals. (ie... they get watched when entering a store)

Having people from a multitude of backgrounds and ethnicites stimulates intellectual thought and awareness in settings of higher education. Thus, there is a value to creating a diverse workplace or classroom.

If you are stupid enough to think that you cannot succeed in life because of affirmative action, you shouldn't be getting a spot at a job or a college in the first place.

As an interesting fact, the Washington Post reported last year that just over 40 people who categorized themselves as African American on the SAT scored above a 1500 in the entire nation. In comparision, in my close circle of friends who I see on a weekly basis I know 5 white caucasians who scored above a 1500. It would be foolish on the long term to leave blacks and other minorities as uneducated and unproductive groups in society, but they remain there because on the short term it stings white americans looking for jobs and education.

The problem with your "interesting fact" in the last paragraph is that that could be interpreted as proving blacks are less intelligent than whites (note that I don't believe this). SATs have less to do with knowledge and more to do with intelligence. For example, I got a 740 on a biology SAT, but I came close to failing that class, as I did not pay attention. I know nothing about biology.

I would disagree. SATs have more to do with schooling, preparation for testing, tutoring, and how well fundamental math and English skills were taught to you. This regarding the SAT1, not subject tests which are vastly different and scored differently as well.

If a minority, coming from a background/area where it is more difficult to achieve, can have a resume worthy of a school or job it should be taken into consideration when picking from a list of candidates. It can imply a strong work ethic and determination, where as you so keenly demonstrated, a lazy SOB can get a decent score on an SAT2 which would not translated strictly when looking at numbers and ignoring background.

If that implication (stronger work ethic from a minority with a high SAT score) is picked up upon by employers, then that would seem like a strike against affirmative action, as blacks with a high SAT score would have an advantage over whites with a similar score.

Does a minority member who is less competent than a white deserve to get preference from a college, simply because they "had it hard"? I don't think so. Regardless of why they are less competent, they are still less competent. People like that should certainly not be given preference over someone more suitable for the school.

Rather than make an ethically questionable system to give minorities a higher chance of being accepted, I believe that effort and time should be spent striking at the root of the problem. That is, they should make lower education and intellectually stimulating environments more readily available to young minority children. I don't think affirmative action is just or right, for either side: whites or minorities.

 

[Delta52]

People should be selected by their skill at something, or work ethic, not by the color of their skin.

 

[Brackis]

Originally posted by: kogase

Rather than make an ethically questionable system to give minorities a higher chance of being accepted, I believe that effort and time should be spent striking at the root of the problem. That is, they should make lower education and intellectually stimulating environments more readily available to young minority children.

I agree with this, but does that mean we ignore the fact that todays generations will miss out? For the short term, I believe it can be a solution for generations that have missed out on the "problem solving" (If it ever comes that is). Does this mean accepting kids with 1020's at Harvard based on their race? No, but if there is a choice to be made between to closely matched candidates it seems perfectly fine with me to take the guy who had to work through disadvantages before even being considered.

 

[kogase]

I disagree. I don't care what a person had to get through to get somewhere. All that is important is whether they are there or not. If they aren't there, they aren't there, and they miss out. That sounds cold, but we can't just give someone a luxury because it would be nice to give it to them. And college is a luxury, when it comes down to it.

 

[Cerb]

People are not equal. This is something many want to deny. However, some also like to only look at certain aspects, and divide a people's strengths based on genetic background, which is also stupid.

AA is affirming a belief that those helepd by AA will not succeed w/o a crutch, and is helping no one. Maybe it was necessary when it was new, maybe not--I wasn't alive then. Now it's pointless. The only way to beat racism today is patience: let the old people retire and die out, massively thinning the racist portion of the population.

 

[importdistributors]

HERES A QUESSTION, BESIDED OPINION, ARE THERE ANY CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS THAT ARE AGAINST AFFIRMATIVE ACTION? IS THERE ANY CONTRADICTIONS WITHIN THE RULES OF GOVERNMENT?

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: importdistributors
Personally, I think it is garbage, People should be selected to go to universities based on aptitude rather than skin colour.

I couldn't agree more. In fact, those words sound just like mine 🙂

 

[CanOWorms]

I think it is useful in some situations, but may need to be reformed nowadays.

 

[Brackis]

Originally posted by: kogase
I disagree. I don't care what a person had to get through to get somewhere. All that is important is whether they are there or not. If they aren't there, they aren't there, and they miss out. That sounds cold, but we can't just give someone a luxury because it would be nice to give it to them. And college is a luxury, when it comes down to it.

It doesn't sound cold, it just sounds like the words of someone who lacks the ability to choose a good assortment of people in a company or college.
If your arguement is based entirely on quanititative data, rather than trends and character traits then you are simply myopic. Someone who has had to work hard and improve themselves since they were young is on a upward path to success, while someone who has remained static because they had everything given to them from an early age may lack the ability to progress when they are left to their own means.

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: Brackis

Originally posted by: kogase
I disagree. I don't care what a person had to get through to get somewhere. All that is important is whether they are there or not. If they aren't there, they aren't there, and they miss out. That sounds cold, but we can't just give someone a luxury because it would be nice to give it to them. And college is a luxury, when it comes down to it.

It doesn't sound cold, it just sounds like the words of someone who lacks the ability to choose a good assortment of people in a company or college.
If your arguement is based entirely on quanititative data, rather than trends and character traits then you are simply myopic. Someone who has had to work hard and improve themselves since they were young is on a upward path to success, while someone who has remained static because they had everything given to them from an early age may lack the ability to progress when they are left to their own means.

The fact remains that skin color shouldn't matter right? Racism shouldn't be anywhere in our society, and thats what Affirmative Action is. Racism against whites. I find it inexcusable and ridiculous that a white kid with better grades and test scores can be passed up for a black kid b/c the kid is black. You can try to explain and justify it, but it's just not right. You act like white kids get things handed to them, that they have it so easy. They go to school too, they take their tests, they take the SATs. They're no different than a black kid. How would you like to get rejected at a college b/c they had to meet their minority quotas and look a minority with worst grades and test scores than you? Or how about you weren't hired at a company b/c they needed to hire a black guy to meet quotas, even though you were more qualified? You wouldn't like it.

 

[kogase]

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: Brackis

Originally posted by: kogase
I disagree. I don't care what a person had to get through to get somewhere. All that is important is whether they are there or not. If they aren't there, they aren't there, and they miss out. That sounds cold, but we can't just give someone a luxury because it would be nice to give it to them. And college is a luxury, when it comes down to it.

It doesn't sound cold, it just sounds like the words of someone who lacks the ability to choose a good assortment of people in a company or college.
If your arguement is based entirely on quanititative data, rather than trends and character traits then you are simply myopic. Someone who has had to work hard and improve themselves since they were young is on a upward path to success, while someone who has remained static because they had everything given to them from an early age may lack the ability to progress when they are left to their own means.

The fact remains that skin color shouldn't matter right? Racism shouldn't be anywhere in our society, and thats what Affirmative Action is. Racism against whites. I find it inexcusable and ridiculous that a white kid with better grades and test scores can be passed up for a black kid b/c the kid is black. You can try to explain and justify it, but it's just not right. You act like white kids get things handed to them, that they have it so easy. They go to school too, they take their tests, they take the SATs. They're no different than a black kid. How would you like to get rejected at a college b/c they had to meet their minority quotas and look a minority with worst grades and test scores than you? Or how about you weren't hired at a company b/c they needed to hire a black guy to meet quotas, even though you were more qualified? You wouldn't like it.

Hell, it's racism towards blacks. It's just racism that favors them, so it gets special treatment.

 

[smc13]

I hate people writing all in caps. Look at the 14th ammendment for your answer.

" nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

One could argue that AA violates equal protection of the laws.

As far as my opinion of AA goes, I would say it is more harmful to blacks and hispanics then then it benefits them. People tend to be lazy. If it is easier for someone to get into college then they won't work as hard. This will harm them in the long run when they get a real job and aren't used to performing as hard as others. Look at how blacks and hispanics do on SATs and compare it to first generation Asian Americans who don't even speak english at home. explain to me how someone whose family has been in the country for hundreds of years does worse on the english portion of the SAT than someone who has only been in country for a few years and doesn't speak the language at home. It isn't intelligence. It is work ethic. One group doesn't think school will benefit them while the other thinks it is the way to get ahead.

 

[Brackis]

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: Brackis

Originally posted by: kogase
I disagree. I don't care what a person had to get through to get somewhere. All that is important is whether they are there or not. If they aren't there, they aren't there, and they miss out. That sounds cold, but we can't just give someone a luxury because it would be nice to give it to them. And college is a luxury, when it comes down to it.

It doesn't sound cold, it just sounds like the words of someone who lacks the ability to choose a good assortment of people in a company or college.
If your argument is based entirely on quantitative data, rather than trends and character traits then you are simply myopic. Someone who has had to work hard and improve themselves since they were young is on a upward path to success, while someone who has remained static because they had everything given to them from an early age may lack the ability to progress when they are left to their own means.

The fact remains that skin color shouldn't matter right? Racism shouldn't be anywhere in our society, and thats what Affirmative Action is. Racism against whites. I find it inexcusable and ridiculous that a white kid with better grades and test scores can be passed up for a black kid b/c the kid is black. You can try to explain and justify it, but it's just not right. You act like white kids get things handed to them, that they have it so easy. They go to school too, they take their tests, they take the SATs. They're no different than a black kid. How would you like to get rejected at a college b/c they had to meet their minority quotas and look a minority with worst grades and test scores than you? Or how about you weren't hired at a company b/c they needed to hire a black guy to meet quotas, even though you were more qualified? You wouldn't like it.

What fantasy land do you live in?

I find it inexcusable that whites dominate the playing field in terms of wealth, schools, and jobs, leaving minorities at a disadvantage. Hell, I am a middle-upper class white guy applying to colleges, but I am grateful that colleges look for diverse students from all backgrounds. It enhances my education, if and when I get in, by exposing me to lots of different people and spicing up campus. Who wants a bunch of suburban W.A.S.Ps being the only people who surround you? It gets dull (as spoken by an admitted W.A.S.P) I do disagree with "quotas", but I'm perfectly willing to push for a society where I can feel my life is not segregated from those of other ethnicities and that the playing field is equal for all people. When that time comes, Affirmative Action can and should be abolished. For the short term it will piss off some white people because in their minds they are getting some injustice done to them, but on the whole as a society, things are being equaled out.
In your passion you seem to make out affirmative action to be the intention of employers and school to put down white people for inept black people. No company is ever going to someone incapable of fulfilling the requirements of a job because of their skin color, nor will a school bring in a minority student who hasn't learned algebra.

Perhaps for the first time in your life, this is something that doesn't help you as an individual that is done by our government to help other people. Welcome to Utilitaria; Some things suck for some people, but in the end it doesn't kill you and is only done to alleviate some problems related to race which were causing an unhealthy balance in society. I'm sure this isn't stopping you from making yourself a better person, or maybe it is, and in that case highlights a character flaw in you that affirmative action brings out. (and in doing so, reaffirms that you have been rejected over someone more emotionally qualified than you). If I am, based on my background, one of the people who is most disadvantaged by affirmative action and can deal with it, why can't you? Perhaps it is because nothing is being done to hurt you, but someone or something got your pants in a wad when they try and help a brotha out.

Just be glad you still have the right to vote and marry as a heterosexual white male or don't get watched and embarrassed when shopping for clothing in a mall.

Thanx,
Brackis