What do you guys think about ME3's Indoctrination Theory?

[Beev]

Yup, me too. In the other ME3 thread I brought up 3 points similar to your list:

1) You are locked in slow motion with no GUI/HUD available. This is exactly as it is in the dream sequences that haunt Shepard throughout the game. What point are the dream sequences if not to create a precedent for the ultimately confusing ending?

2) Shepard shoots Anderson in the arm -- the same arm that Shepard is bleeding from after Anderson passes. Shepard's arm was not covered in blood before this. The game goes to [not so subtle] lengths to bring attention to this detail by panning the camera IMMEDIATELY after Anderson passes.

3) In the 'good' ending following the destruction of the reapers, Shepard is shown waking up in a pile of rubble on earth. It is completely ridiculous to assume he survived the Citadel blowing up, burning through Earth's atomsphere and then crashing down thousands of miles when he's already bleeding to death and barely able to keep himself upright.

Nobody in that thread addressed these points and I doubt they'll address yours. It's easier for these people to remain angry at an ending that actually requires a good deal of thought rather than get spoon-fed another Michael Bay ending like they're used to getting. Shepard has been exposed to Reapers through all three games -- why should she be immune to the effects of indoctrination?

I give Bioware major props for the ending since it's so rare to get a thought-provoking ending that also ties together major themes that run throughout all 3 games.

(FWIW I'm happy enough with the ending)

You're on the other end of the spectrum. For as hardcore as some people are that the ending was terrible, you're WAY too hardcore into the thought that Bioware actually did all of this on purpose. Just because we're hating on the potential of a dream sequence doesn't mean we need stuff spoon-fed to us. How about "dream" endings just suck ass?

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Good points, but here's the issue. If we are going to see a true ending to this, then how are we going to get it? The indoctrination ending sells me an unfinished game. Bioware states that the trilogy will be the end of Shep's story. So what will be the real ending? DLC? Well then it better be free. Otherwise it's an unfinished game in my eyes, and the only indoctrination going on at this point would be Bioware indoctrinated by EA to release unfinished products then charge extra just to see the real ending.

Exactly. If they charge for it, that effectively destroys any goodwill they've built up to this point. However, if they give it away for free, man, would that be something. Like a final, sincere "thank you" to their players as they wrap up their epic story in perfect fashion. I mean, a game that manages to trick their entire gamer base with n legendary story that has the clues of mind control riddled all over the place and over the course of, what, years? And then to give them the conclusion that they were all waiting for, for free, after the fact. And to have had it all planned this way.

And if they did this on purpose, I don't see it as releasing an unfinished ME3 game. I see it as releasing a finale with a thought provoking cliffhanger. The issue is that the cliffhanger was too subtle for people and they weren't able to see it for what it was.

 

[Gheris]

Again I ask the question on the "good" ending....how does that finish Shep's story? It doesn't. Mass Effect 3 part 2 DLC edition($$$) maybe? Indoctrination, dream, or fumes from the engines making their way into the Captain's Cabin....Shep's story "ending" is half arsed no matter how you look at it.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

And keep in mind that this is hardly strange behavior from what we know of the past.

1. ME1 and ME2 were both a huge mindfuck for me towards the end. This is the beginning of the end of all organic life in the universe? Holy shit! And all this technology, mass relays, eezo cores, even the Citadel itself were left behind by the Reapers in a carefully orchestrated plan to have all intelligent life evolve and position themselves in the exact way that the Reapers want for each cycle, which by the way has been going on since time itself? Holy fuck. Saren, who I thought was just a regular evil bad guy judging from his actions and his evil physical look, was just a mind controlled pawn? Damn!

Moral of the story is that with Mass Effect, you've got to expect more than what's just on the surface. Surprise and a deep plot IS the name of the game, and that's why I love it so, so much. They would have completely lost the effect if they put all the surprises and conclusions all in one release.

2. Baldurs Gate had a huge twist at the end as well, and it was hanging in the player's face the whole entire time through hours and hours of gameplay.

3. I think KOTOR had something similar.

Basically, such plot surprises and reveals are hardly unheard of.

This is coming from a guy who is incredibly jaded with games. I have to say that I feel like I waste my money on 90% of the games that I purchase. I'm really really really quick to denounce games. Duke Nukem Forever was complete shit. I dicked around with Batman for hours just trying to get that Microsoft Live Games BS to register me and allow me to play the game. Battlefield is just a regular shoot em' up. COD is a dumb shooting gallery, albeit cinematic with a decent story. The Crysis stuff just has pretty graphics.

Meh. Games that I did *not* feel like I wasted money on are Baldur's Gate, KOTOR, and ME.

 

[StinkyPinky]

Again I ask the question on the "good" ending....how does that finish Shep's story? It doesn't. Mass Effect 3 part 2 DLC edition($$$) maybe? Indoctrination, dream, or fumes from the engines making their way into the Captain's Cabin....Shep's story "ending" is half arsed no matter how you look at it.

Maybe the entire series takes place in Jokers head? He has expressed frustration about his disease afterall, maybe he dreamed up this story to be some galactic hero?

The plot fits if you think about it. Hell, he's even the focus of the dream ending.

:twisted:

 

[Gheris]

Maybe the entire series takes place in Jokers head? He has expressed frustration about his disease afterall, maybe he dreamed up this story to be some galactic hero?

The plot fits if you think about it. Hell, he's even the focus of the dream ending.

:twisted:

Wait a sec, he even gets his own sexbot. It is all about JOKER! StinkyPinky has done it! All hail the true ending of ME3!

 

[Arg Clin]

I find the evidence overwhelming. As much as I enjoy the cleverness of the indoctrination ending I think Bioware failed to deliver on any kind of closure to Shepards story.

If they come out with a DLC to round things off I'll be perfectly happy.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Wait a sec, he even gets his own sexbot. It is all about JOKER! StinkyPinky has done it! All hail the true ending of ME3!

Ok, I officially concede and accept defeat. Joker + Sexbot EDI = win.

 

[Slick5150]

I agree with others that found the ending confusing more than disappointing. The indoctrination theory actually makes it work. I'll be curious to see what they do with it.

 

[Gooberlx2]

Also from i been hearing rumors that its actually done by Bioware.

You're saying there's speculation that BW seeded the theory? I hadn't seen this. Got a link? That'd be...fucking evil (genius) if true.

 

[Bateluer]

Reading that Forbes article . . . I really wonder if they hit the nail on the head with it. It'd make some sense, but by putting the finale in as DLC, its a sucker punch not a master stroke.

 

[BD231]

Good. This means I wasn't the only one left saying " wtf " when Sheapard stands up and has a full blown convo with wonder child seconds after passing out from excessive blood loss.

 

[dighn]

plausible, but if the "true" ending(s) come in a paid DLC, I don't care about them.

I personally think Bioware just didn't put in the kind of rigour that fans expected. It's interesting that fans are so critical only of the ending. IMO logical inconsistencies and plot holes riddle the entire game, so the ending is par for the course. (just to clarify, I think ME3 is an excellent game. I just recognize its flaws and consider them to be acceptable for a game).

 

[Zenoth]

It's a good theory, but just a theory nonetheless.

It's a product of the fan-base's desperation for better endings, and their disbelief of what they do have right now (with reasons). If the current endings had been given more closure, more details and explanations while remaining relatively the same at its base (Catalyst, Crucible), then outside of the initial shock of a Pyrrhic-style victory and the realization of the consequences of the Reapers invasion and the resulting galactic-wide destruction, I'm fairly sure that the fan-base wouldn't have thought about other scenarios.

It's all a result of lack of information, understanding (due to lack of information indeed, and closure, and explanations / details), disbelief, shock, confusion and, certainly, emotional involvement due to the attachment from the player's avatar to the characters they've been with for the course of three games within a period of approximately five years of their life. I for one do not believe that BioWare planned for the Indoctrination scenario at all, or if they did it certainly wasn't done from the start. If they do "adopt" the ending and pretend they always had it in plan from the start I wouldn't believe it nor would I accept it.

If anything, the Indoctrination theory is good for self-satisfying closure within the head-canon's continuity post-ending of the trilogy on an individual basis, even if just for comforting, and to help themselves healing the potential psychological shock out of depression for those whom happened to be perhaps too involved in the series.

 

[thejunglegod]

Mass Effect is a Franchise that earns EA and Bioware a lot of extra side-moolah. Killing/ending a franchise like this would mean shooting yourself in the foot. Think God of War. Kratos killed Zeus. But apparently, there is a 4th installment in which the trailer shows Kratos saying "My vengeance ends now".

Its a means of stretching things out so that they can fill their already overflowing coffers. Not that im complaining though. If they can come up with games which are 99% that of Mass Effect 3, i wouldnt give a rat's ass about the ending. The Indoctrination theory just shows how much the fans are willing to scrutinise something with hope of finding something that suggests something positive. There is a lot of love for you BIOWARE. Hopefully ,you'll get your bearings right with the actual ending.

 

[TallBill]

I don't get why everyone, including Forbes is expecting a "true ending" DLC based on this video. The video, if you believe it, is the true ending...

If you don't believe it, then yes there might be new DLC affecting the ending.

 

[Red Storm]

I think you guys are giving Bioware way too much credit. They changed entire writing teams for this game for a start. More likely they rushed the ending and simply screwed it up.

Bioware are not the company they once were and I think some of us are perhaps reaching a bit to try and justify their decline.

This makes the most sense. EA is the anti-Midas afterall, once they got their grubby fingers on Bioware it was over.

Dragon Age 1: Pre-EA Bioware

Dragon Age 2: EA Bioware

 

[darkewaffle]

Assuming the "Indoctrination Theory" is true I don't think the ending is a cop out, it's a cliffhanger. If it's true, I don't think the intent is "Ok, these endings are all in your head. You are now a vegetable. Game over." It's more of a "Stay tuned!" or "To be continued..." sort of thing.

I mean it could potentially be the quintessential role playing experience. Provoking these kinds of emotions from players that would likely mirror those of Shep in the same situation. "It doesn't make sense, why is this happening like this?" which could serve to provide some kind of crystallizing moment for him to break free at which point a 'true' ending occurs.

Who knows, but to be fair if that's the plan then it would almost have to be DLC. Otherwise it would just be datamined and the whole event ruined really. It'd be sweet if it was free but if not, oh well. Think of it like an iMax movie, you pay more but in return you get a unique experience.

This makes the most sense. EA is the anti-Midas afterall, once they got their grubby fingers on Bioware it was over.

Dragon Age 1: Pre-EA Bioware

Dragon Age 2: EA Bioware

Clearly, the theory that one company poisons everything it ever touches is far more plausible than a group of writers doing something creative and somewhat daring in this day and age of viral marketing.

 

[dighn]

IMO having an incomplete ending in the last installment of a multi-year running trilogy (costing almost $200 to the player in total), and then making the "true endings" available in a paid DLC is a far greater sin than simply having a crappy ending.

 

[Gooberlx2]

and then making the "true endings" available in a paid DLC is a far greater sin than simply having a crappy ending.

We'll just have to see what they do. I agree, it would be bullshit to ask for money for ending DLC. Admittedly, I'm so invested at this point, I'll pay the bastards if I have to. A fact I fear they're counting on.

 

[heavyiron8]

If this is true, and bioware releases a DLC for the true ending... I will hate them forever

 

[Gooberlx2]

If this is true, and bioware releases a DLC for the true ending... I will hate them forever

What if it's free?

 

[Bateluer]

What if it's free?

If its free, it won't be the kick in the gonads paid DLC would be. Unfortunately, they won't be able to claim the master stroke of story telling and the ME franchise will be forever known as the games with the botched ending.

Assuming the Indoctrination theory rings true anyway.

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

This only works if Bob Newhart is in the first piece of DLC.

 

[ramj70]

This only works if Bob Newhart is in the first piece of DLC.

LOL, now that was a great ending.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McVWkGWMHKI