What do you do when there is *intentionally* no Recovery Disk?

[apoppin]

i am helping one of my acquaintances with his PC. He has a HP Pavilion a510n that came with 512MB RAM and i got him an external DVD burner for him before i even looked at it.

Well, he couldn't figure how to install it so i volunteered [i only do this for people i like and it is not a business] and it is sitting in my spare room. He doesn't need anything fancy as he USES "office" and he will maybe backup to DVD or copy and a little email and web browsing. First thing for me is to upgrade his Ram from 512MB to 2GB for $60 shipped; and since it is an old Athlon 3000 with IG, he needs to have all that Norton Crap and extra BS that HP clogs it up with- OFF; and i'll put on FireFox and automatic Avira AntiVir.

However, it appears there is NO restore disk and reading the license suggests "system restore" to fix the PC

Does he have any legal right to XP? ... for example, could i use MY WinXP disk and his COA and his Product Key to successfully activate it legally ?

Or does he have to buy *another* XP ?

 

[bruceb]

You can order them here:

http://www.myrecoverycds.com/HPa500.html

$35

Or if the unit is new, cal HP and complain. Your computer has a hidden
Recovery (Hidden) Partition .. Y u can burn a recovery cd set from that,
but it may only allow 1 burn (you would then need to copy the cd with maybe
CloneCD to get an extra copy) ... Keep in mind, that this method will restore
to As Delivered condition with all the crap installed. If all you need is the OS
any copy of XP (home or pro depending on what the pc has) will be fine
as long it is an OEM version.

This link shows how to create the cds / dvd from the
recovery partition.

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfr...8703&docname=c00608578

 

[apoppin]

If all you need is the OS any copy of XP (home or pro depending on what the pc has) will be fine
as long it is an OEM version.

Thank-you , i may do it as long as it is legal .. however he loses programs that were pre-installed, like MS Word [screw Norton :|]

.. since i am pushing the envelope .. now, with MS [] .. would it be OK to create *two partitions*? - one with all the original crap [cleaned up as best as possible] from the hidden partition and a brand new *other NEW partition* - #2 - with a clean install using my XP disk - and it is really mostly for DVD back-up and copying with no connection to the 'net, so there is no antiVirus needed and that poor little Athlon won't be struggling.
?

.. as long as the *other partition* is secured, the antivirus on Partition #1 can scan both.
.. hmm ... possible?

i could even stick in another [extra] HD for him - and save me a LOT of work .. please say "i do" .. i can ..

i guess

 

[RebateMonger]

PC manufacturers aren't obligated to provide raw OS Install disks. Some do, some don't. My general recommendation is to never buy a PC that doesn't provide one. Once you 've made the purchase, your options are more limited.

The most pragmatic solution to making a "bare OS" is to simply uninstall any applications you don't want.

The good news is that you really don't pay much of the operating system when you buy a basic brand-name PC.

If you have an OEM version of XP Install CD, you can use it along with the COA Key on the PC. But you'll have to phone Microsoft to perform the XP Activation. Microsoft isn't obligated to allow activation, but normally does so.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: RebateMonger
PC manufacturers aren't obligated to provide raw OS Install disks. Some do, some don't. My general recommendation is to never buy a PC that doesn't provide one. Once you 've made the purchase, your options are more limited.

The most pragmatic solution to making a "bare OS" is to simply uninstall any applications you don't want.

The good news is that you really don't pay much of the operating system when you buy a basic brand-name PC.

If you have an OEM version of XP Install CD, you can use it along with the COA Key on the PC. But you'll have to phone Microsoft to perform the XP Activation. Microsoft isn't obligated to allow activation, but normally does so.

Thank-you

now .. if i can't i will just clean up his MESS

is is POSSIBLE for me to stick XP on a 2nd HD and use his Product Key to activate it? [the original XP on HD 1 will stay activated with no change] - for me, i have 2 activated copies of a Vista license on 2 separate HDs in my same Rig, for benchmarking - i guess i have to activate it for him, so the internet connection will be temporary to install updates? Will MS allow that from his kind of liscense?

He could have his cake and eat it too ... and my work would be *Easy Buttoned*

 

[lxskllr]

Originally posted by: apoppin

is is POSSIBLE for me to stick XP on a 2nd HD and use his Product Key to activate it? [the original XP on HD 1 will stay activated with no change] - for me, i have 2 activated copies of a Vista license on 2 separate HDs in my same Rig, for benchmarking - i guess i have to activate it for him, so the internet connection will be temporary to install updates? Will MS allow that from his kind of liscense?

He could have his cake and eat it too ... and my work would be *Easy Buttoned*

That won't fly because it would be 2 installs. I don't agree with that policy, but that's the way it is. I wanted to dual boot Vista32 and Vista64 using the same key, but people here in the know said that wouldn't work.

 

[JustaGeek]

I do not think it is illegal to do the "Repair Install" on an OEM XP installation.

This way you don't loose programs or any software already installed on the computer.

Hope I haven't missed anything in your posts above, and the Repair Install is one of the options that will work for you.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: JustaGeek
I do not think it is illegal to do the "Repair Install" on an OEM XP installation.

This way you don't loose programs or any software already installed on the computer.

Hope I haven't missed anything in your posts above, and the Repair Install is one of the options that will work for you.

That might work best .. i think i will back up his entire HD to my extra one and experiment a bit with MS licensing

anyone that knows .. LMK

That won't fly because it would be 2 installs. I don't agree with that policy, but that's the way it is. I wanted to dual boot Vista32 and Vista64 using the same key, but people here in the know said that wouldn't work.

I can't do that either - Vista 64 + Vista 32 *won't fly* with MS -
but 2 installs of Vista32 OR Vista 64 on the *same* partition is OK, i think. Same with XP .. it is the *same* rig - even with ONE HD or two that are Raided.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: lxskllr

Originally posted by: apoppin

is is POSSIBLE for me to stick XP on a 2nd HD and use his Product Key to activate it? [the original XP on HD 1 will stay activated with no change] - for me, i have 2 activated copies of a Vista license on 2 separate HDs in my same Rig, for benchmarking - i guess i have to activate it for him, so the internet connection will be temporary to install updates? Will MS allow that from his kind of liscense?

He could have his cake and eat it too ... and my work would be *Easy Buttoned*

That won't fly because it would be 2 installs. I don't agree with that policy, but that's the way it is. I wanted to dual boot Vista32 and Vista64 using the same key, but people here in the know said that wouldn't work.

You didn't have one of the two copies running somewhere else did you?

If not, I don't see what the problem would be.

 

[apoppin]

Of course not ...
. . . One PC - with 2 partitions .. i really like to be sure . . .
- the EULA was not clear to me in his case and this is the first time i have a PC without a Restore Disk on purpose.

thank-you .. and my friend agrees also with my plan .. the RAM arrives tomorrow

 

[RebateMonger]

Originally posted by: Smilin
You didn't have one of the two copies running somewhere else did you?

If not, I don't see what the problem would be.

But as soon as those two Vista copies (with identical Keys) come online for updates within a few days each other, won't Microsoft see them as two separate installs on two identical PCs and come up with a WGA warning?

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: RebateMonger

Originally posted by: Smilin
You didn't have one of the two copies running somewhere else did you?

If not, I don't see what the problem would be.

But as soon as those two Vista copies (with identical Keys) come online for updates within a few days each other, won't Microsoft see them as two separate installs on two identical PCs and come up with a WGA warning?

nope .. not even one immediately after the other [2 minutes to reboot]

their auto checker sees mine as TWO Vista32 installs on the SAME PC
-allowed, evidently

MS used to allow me to have Win2K on my home PC and also on a Laptop, if i remember right
-their EULAs change so much and are SO hard to figure, i thought i'd better ask here ...

... that way if the MS Police show up at my door i can blame you

--that always works

 

[lxskllr]

That's interesting information guys. I never tried it, but people who I respect said it wouldn't work. It's kind of a moot point for me now. I wanted to dual boot both Vista versions in case I ran into problems with Vista64. It's all been flawless, so I'm going to wipe my XP partition the next time I do a full reinstall. I've run a dual boot ever since Vista came out, and I've never had to go into XP except for maintenance :^)

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: lxskllr
That's interesting information guys. I never tried it, but people who I respect said it wouldn't work. It's kind of a moot point for me now. I wanted to dual boot both Vista versions in case I ran into problems with Vista64. It's all been flawless, so I'm going to wipe my XP partition the next time I do a full reinstall. I've run a dual boot ever since Vista came out, and I've never had to go into XP except for maintenance :^)

What wouldn't work? .. dual booting Vista with Vista is practical .. one partition could be the "office machine" and the other a almost pure "gaming rig"

.. and i never got "into" XP ... i went directly from Win2K to Vista32 and even tried Vista64 to compare with Vista32 for a month. However, when i tried XP for 2 months or so to compare with Vista i just couldn't - XP is a "pretty Win2K" - that is about all

otoh Vista is a cool OS; .. XP - like Win2K is *primitive* in comparison

actually .. just like ross, there is NO comparison

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: RebateMonger

Originally posted by: Smilin
You didn't have one of the two copies running somewhere else did you?

If not, I don't see what the problem would be.

But as soon as those two Vista copies (with identical Keys) come online for updates within a few days each other, won't Microsoft see them as two separate installs on two identical PCs and come up with a WGA warning?

There is no such thing as two identical PCs outside of a virtual environment. CPY S/N, MAC address and other variances that WGA uses will exist.

You are not trying to authorize two different (or identical) PCs. You're activating twice on the *same* PC and furthermore it's not possible to run both installs at once. Basically what you are doing WGA wise would be like installing, activating, formatting, installing then activating again.

 

[apoppin]

thank you for a much better explanation, Smilin!
--it would be cool to run both OSes at once by the way

. . .and while i am as it, i'd like to suggest that you get your planners to make an OS that will got into "pure gaming mode"
- so the entire resources of the PC are devoted to gaming

Please

pretty please

i have been begging for this for years and years from MS

it would be a big plus for your GFW platform with no disadvantages whatsoever

Your planner guys need to realize that Xbox platform IS a competing OS - then you will get even better unified results by either (1) improving Xbox and coupling it [really] with GFW or (2) getting rid of it or (3) changing it like the Wii
- it sucks now - and gamers like it because we have no other choice -except the unfriendly PC or currently BS-3 brain-damaged Sony games

frankly it looks like MS is in a clusterf*ck trying to figure which direction they want gaming to go
.. and even more sadly, i finally really wish we had another choice

 

[Pabster]

I agree that the recovery disc stuff sucks. Manufacturers should be required to disclose if they are not providing retail or OEM actual installation media and thus are receiving a cut-rate from Microsoft for each install.

 

[johnpombrio]

As long as folks know that a "RECOVERY" disk is in no way shape or form a copy of the operating system. It is more of a "recovery from a bad driver or corrupt registry" utility. For instance, if the hard drive dies, you are totally out of luck and the recovery disk does you NO GOOD AT ALL! I HATE systems that come with just a recovery disk.
Fortunately, you can get a copy of the OEM version of the software on a torrent, burn it to a disk, and then use the COA that is on the sticker to rebuild your machine.
As far as using the same Serial Number for two hard drives or two computers, you can DO it, but you will never be able to to upgrade patches and so on on both drives concurrently. Best just to get two licenses.

 

[apoppin]

this PC doesn't come with any Recovery Disk at all - there is a "recovery console" instead - cheap beyond cheap

Fortunately, i backed up his files to DVD so i can get started ripping out the Crap. And i *can* run using the same Serial Key for two hard drives on ONE computers. i do DO it, and i regularly are able to upgrade patches and so on on - just not on both drives concurrently; sequentially would describe it as both OSes cannot run simultaneously on one PC.

Screw two licenses for ONE PC

 

[Jessica69]

Most, if not all, HP's I've dealt with over the last few years....while not having a recovery disc per se, had, as you mentioned a recovery console and typically a way to burn a CD of the recovery partition......it's the hidden partition that Compaq/HP use to store their recovery software/console. There should be somewhere in the computer's program listing an HP utility that burns the recovery partition onto a CD....but you get ONE chance to do it. Screw it up....like bad burn or stop the burn before it's done, and that chance is gone. Look around before you format it.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Jessica69
Most, if not all, HP's I've dealt with over the last few years....while not having a recovery disc per se, had, as you mentioned a recovery console and typically a way to burn a CD of the recovery partition......it's the hidden partition that Compaq/HP use to store their recovery software/console. There should be somewhere in the computer's program listing an HP utility that burns the recovery partition onto a CD....but you get ONE chance to do it. Screw it up....like bad burn or stop the burn before it's done, and that chance is gone. Look around before you format it.

thanks .. i found the recovery partition

what i already did was set up a 40 GB HD with XP also installed and activated; i already backed-up his programs to it and he can use it for whatever he wants. I am "cleaning up" the crap off his regular HD and will reinstall XP "over top" XP and update it today.

the BIG problem was that the PC he bought from Best Buy came with 512MB of system RAM and was a PAIN to use - it was tortuously slow. Going to 2GB gave him a "new PC", basically - for his purposes.

Seriously, my friend is Chinese - from the Mainland many years ago; he loves our freedom and has adopted America - but still cannot really "use" a computer - and he is a genius! For him, a computer is an "appliance" and an annoyance. i guess he bought it originally for 'status' - just to have one and he uses it as a Word Processor and to browse the 'net a little [because he is on 56K!!] IF his experience was better - he would use it lot more.

i think no one bothered to explain it to him .. i think he will like PC a lot more when he gets it back tomorrow.

Thanks for all your comments and assistance!
"issues solved!!" .. and now it's "busy work"

 

[Throckmorton]

Tell him to get SBC's $15 DSL.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Tell him to get SBC's $15 DSL.

i wish i could
--ANY broadband [except crapalite]

i am updating his computer [think "never" for winXP updates] .. thank heavens i got SP2 on it .. just Nero updates to go after XP
:roll:

that sucker was SO slow .. before with 512MB Total RAM [including a pathetic 64MB shared IG] .. it is no wonder he didn't "care much for computers" .. and of course the barrage of Norton Junk, AOL updates [even though he did get PeoplePC], and a couple of active programs monitoring spyware .. it is a wonder he could find "Word"

i think he might like it

then i can talk to him about his laptop and his Office PC .. i can't imagine what THEY look like! [actually i can .. about 2 weeks of work]
:Q

 

[HannibalX]

Originally posted by: apoppin
i am helping one of my acquaintances with his PC. He has a HP Pavilion a510n that came with 512MB RAM and i got him an external DVD burner for him before i even looked at it.

Well, he couldn't figure how to install it so i volunteered [i only do this for people i like and it is not a business] and it is sitting in my spare room. He doesn't need anything fancy as he USES "office" and he will maybe backup to DVD or copy and a little email and web browsing. First thing for me is to upgrade his Ram from 512MB to 2GB for $60 shipped; and since it is an old Athlon 3000 with IG, he needs to have all that Norton Crap and extra BS that HP clogs it up with- OFF; and i'll put on FireFox and automatic Avira AntiVir.

However, it appears there is NO restore disk and reading the license suggests "system restore" to fix the PC

Does he have any legal right to XP? ... for example, could i use MY WinXP disk and his COA and his Product Key to successfully activate it legally ?

Or does he have to buy *another* XP ?

If the box came with an OEM license then no you don't have to buy an additional license. The license will be in the form of a sticker somewhere on the case. You just need the XP media which you can get just about anywhere.

And yes, you are basically renting or leasing the right to use the OS. You don't own it.

 

[apoppin]

If the box came with an OEM license then no you don't have to buy an additional license. The license will be in the form of a sticker somewhere on the case. You just need the XP media which you can get just about anywhere.

And yes, you are basically renting or leasing the right to use the OS. You don't own it.

yep, it did .. thankfully .. his rig is now completely updated - removed al[most] all of the crap, installed XP over XP .. and it "flies" - he may have a new impression about PCs now
[of course the single best improvement was 512 > 2GB system RAM]

it is Renting an OS .. yep ... fortunately they need to be replaced every few years, anyway

XP is SO 2000 ...
... i am SO glad i migrated to Vista