What do LEAN IT methods mean to you?

[maddogchen]

I figured there would be a lot of people in IT here so I would ask around

Our main IT group has been outsourced twice already and all the people that knew anything have long since been used up and spit out. They've gutted the main IT groups of all but a hand full of people and offshored the rest to India. But IT service has been so bad that they've finally decided to insource IT back in.

So now they want to absorb people from the various departments that handled applications within that department. Because basically they have a shortage of people. But then they want to absorb and then put us through a LEAN IT project.

LEAN IT to me, means what they had before where they cut it very lean to one network person, one security person, one database person, one desktop person to cover 3 sites 15 miles apart. When we had a network problem we had to wake up the one network person onsite because everyone in India was cut off. Is that what LEAN means to you?

 

[Train]

No. Lean does not mean a fixed number of overworked people.

Lean means let those people do their jobs first, and worry about stupid corporate bullshit later. And preferably, no stupid corporate bullshit at all.

 

[Train]

Lean also means pick one thing, do it, do it well, and make sure the people who are stakeholders in that one thing (the business, the user's, etc) are happy with it.

THEN do another thing. Not, hey, lets do 100 things! And get lost in a swamp of half assed projects that are broken and scattered all over the company.

 

[DesiPower]

same salary, work more hours without overtime or any other perks. Basically looking for people who feel they have no life outside the organization and want to get in on their take it or leave it deal.

 

[Ken g6]

Searching for "Lean" in Wikipedia landed me in The Seven Wastes. Some of those could apply to IT, I suppose.

 

[Train]

A lot of Lean is explained here, with tons of links to other methodologies LEAN overlaps with, like Agile, Scrum, Six Sigma, etc
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lean_IT

Its central concern, applied in the context of IT, is the elimination of waste, where waste is work that adds no value to a product or service.

edit: Ken G6 beat me to it

 

[Train]

same salary, work more hours without overtime or any other perks. Basically looking for people who feel they have no life outside the organization and want to get in on their take it or leave it deal.

I don't know if LEAN addresses work hours specifically, but some of the overlapping practices such as Agile, actually recognize that overworked employees are less efficient, and strongly discourage it. The idea is to keep a MAINTAINABLE pace of work, to not let your workers burn out. Burnt out, demotivated workers are one of the worst forms of waste.

 

[Acanthus]

Lean IT to me means as cheap as possible, as long as it works.

Having a single person doing each major task is horrifically bad for security and stability. Companies that adopt this philosophy deserve what they get, though.

You get what you pay for.

 

[Red Storm]

Lean IT to me means as cheap as possible, as long as it works.

Having a single person doing each major task is horrifically bad for security and stability. Companies that adopt this philosophy deserve what they get, though.

You get what you pay for.

Yeah I've tried explaining that to my employer. It's just me and one other guy who make up the entire IT dept for our ~300 man company.

 

[maddogchen]

I don't know if LEAN addresses work hours specifically, but some of the overlapping practices such as Agile, actually recognize that overworked employees are less efficient, and strongly discourage it. The idea is to keep a MAINTAINABLE pace of work, to not let your workers burn out. Burnt out, demotivated workers are one of the worst forms of waste.

They must have not gotten around to reading that portion at my workplace...

 

[imagoon]

Lean IT to me means as cheap as possible, as long as it works.

Having a single person doing each major task is horrifically bad for security and stability. Companies that adopt this philosophy deserve what they get, though.

You get what you pay for.

Not really. Lean IT can also mean using something like ITIL to actually manage and control the environment. IE avoid changes at a whim that affect others leading to down time. Allow those IT guys that would waste their lives searching for what change Sally SQL made that brought the ERP app down, to actually improve business process.

If the management takes the other meaning of Lean IT then they can reap what they sow.

 

[Train]

They must have not gotten around to reading that portion at my workplace...

I should also mention that things like Lean, Agile, Scrum, etc, all have a tendancy to fail if they are forced down from above.

The team needs to embrace a new methodology and build the transformation to it, up from the ground, organically.

If some management turd read an article on Forbes that said "Company X saved $Y by switching to LEAN IT practices!" then they were like "oooh, I'm gonna have our IT guys switch to LEAN" then your company is going about it all wrong. And management may not want to hear what the first LEAN coach who shows up is going to say to them.

 

[Acanthus]

I should also mention that things like Lean, Agile, Scrum, etc, all have a tendancy to fail if they are forced down from above.

The team needs to embrace a new methodology and build the transformation to it, up from the ground, organically.

If some management turd read an article on Forbes that said "Company X saved $Y by switching to LEAN IT practices!" then they were like "oooh, I'm gonna have our IT guys switch to LEAN" then your company is going about it all wrong. And management may not want to hear what the first LEAN coach who shows up is going to say to them.

This is what i was referring to.

It happens all the time in the business world.

Managers try to make the switch to save money, do it in a half-assed cost-cutting way, and you wind up with garbage.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

I should also mention that things like Lean, Agile, Scrum, etc, all have a tendancy to fail if they are forced down from above.

The team needs to embrace a new methodology and build the transformation to it, up from the ground, organically.

If some management turd read an article on Forbes that said "Company X saved $Y by switching to LEAN IT practices!" then they were like "oooh, I'm gonna have our IT guys switch to LEAN" then your company is going about it all wrong. And management may not want to hear what the first LEAN coach who shows up is going to say to them.

Extra points if you can use Lean IT, organic, synergy and, proactive in the same sentence. :biggrin:

 

[ultimatebob]

Yeah I've tried explaining that to my employer. It's just me and one other guy who make up the entire IT dept for our ~300 man company.

That's better than the place I work. They have 1 IT guy for a 100 person software company.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...t-virginia-library-runs-a-20000-cisco-router/

 

[richardycc]

LEAN was the buzz word at my company 2 yrs or so ago, it was SDLC waterfall last year and something else this year...who knows what will be next.

 

[Mide]

Us in IT were often described as having a very lean dept compared to other groups. This meant that we had very few IT workers handling many tasks and responsibilities. Often this meant that there was only 1 or 2 primary people and no real backups thus when something important broke the company would call people up in the middle of the night and on weekends with no compensation. So to me it means being very understaffed. To upper management it meant that IT was efficient.

 

[drebo]

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...t-virginia-library-runs-a-20000-cisco-router/

Not having the exact configuration of said routers, it's difficult to make a claim that they're over-specced.

For instance, MSRP on a 3945 is nowhere near $20k...which means that they either got ripped off (unlikely) or the routers were specced with certain modules. It's possible the routers were specced with a L2 switching module. This means that library doesn't need a switch...that saves a couple grand. There are Embedded UCS server modules for these routers...so maybe the library doesn't need a standalone server...and that saves another couple grand.

It is very possible that these routers will save the state money in the long run. Also, PVDM modules are neither expensive nor difficult to install.

I agree that a proper needs analysis should have been done, but there's something to be said for only having to maintain one type of equipment.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

Not having the exact configuration of said routers, it's difficult to make a claim that they're over-specced.

For instance, MSRP on a 3945 is nowhere near $20k...which means that they either got ripped off (unlikely) or the routers were specced with certain modules. It's possible the routers were specced with a L2 switching module. This means that library doesn't need a switch...that saves a couple grand. There are Embedded UCS server modules for these routers...so maybe the library doesn't need a standalone server...and that saves another couple grand.

It is very possible that these routers will save the state money in the long run. Also, PVDM modules are neither expensive nor difficult to install.

I agree that a proper needs analysis should have been done, but there's something to be said for only having to maintain one type of equipment.

it doesn't sound like you read the article at all. this equipment is a gross mis-fit for the need, and half of it was depreciating in warehouses, likely never to be installed. cisco has taken so much crap for this $24 million giveaway they are taking the routers back.

maintaining 1 type of equipment? how much networking capacity does this place need????

 

[rudder]

Stay away from the donuts. It is bad enough we sit in front of monitors all day...lean IT and stay away from those extra calories.

Or it could just mean do more with less.

 

[Broheim]

That's better than the place I work. They have 1 IT guy for a 100 person software company.

meh, that's not too bad. developers actually know how to use a computer, you should try architects instead. I've actually heard people refer to a computer as "that box". "have you tried turning it off and on again" is not just a tv show joke, it's my life...

 

[Kaido]

Yeah I've tried explaining that to my employer. It's just me and one other guy who make up the entire IT dept for our ~300 man company.

The concept is good, but I've never seen an implementation go smoothly. The idea is good (basically trimming things down & making them efficient, or really, just work the way they're supposed to without all the bloat) and all large corporations suffer from that bloat when they grow, but managers see it as an awesome cost-savings measure and go overboard and choke out all the resources. When you have a good Lean guy and a management team that is onboard with the good Lean guy's plans, things can go well, but that's rare.

 

[Kaido]

I should also mention that things like Lean, Agile, Scrum, etc, all have a tendancy to fail if they are forced down from above.

The team needs to embrace a new methodology and build the transformation to it, up from the ground, organically.

If some management turd read an article on Forbes that said "Company X saved $Y by switching to LEAN IT practices!" then they were like "oooh, I'm gonna have our IT guys switch to LEAN" then your company is going about it all wrong. And management may not want to hear what the first LEAN coach who shows up is going to say to them.

Fortunately, most places I've worked never stick with these systems long-term...whether it's Lean, Six Sigma, whatever. They get all psyched up about it, have a major "culture change" push, and after a few months it kinda peters out. Done properly, they ALL work - it's just like those ab machines on infomercials...every single one of them works, but no one actually uses them properly & on a consistent basis to get the results they advertise.

I've also seen the flip side...when they over-embrace these systems and go nuts about things and turn into Nazis. My monthly Lean grade once got bombed because there was a penny on my desk organizer, and a penny doesn't belong next to pens & tape. I received a photo of it with a highlighted callout, my Lean score dropped to less than 90%, and I had to have a discussion about it with the Lean department

 

[vi edit]

I've also seen the flip side...when they over-embrace these systems and go nuts about things and turn into Nazis. My monthly Lean grade once got bombed because there was a penny on my desk organizer, and a penny doesn't belong next to pens & tape. I received a photo of it with a highlighted callout, my Lean score dropped to less than 90%, and I had to have a discussion about it with the Lean department

The day that happens to me is the day I turn in my resignation letter. I work in an office with some draconian policies but nothing like that.

We're a six Sigma and ITIL shop. Our change management is getting out of control on how convoluted and difficult even the most basic of changes are treated.

We used to be HUGE on six Sigma but that has really dropped off in the last few years.