What could be causing this. With pics.

JCH13

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2010
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Oil in my exhaust. I drive about 350 miles a week and every Sunday I need to add a quart of oil if not more.

http://i.imgur.com/vxdD6fL.jpg

Thats 20 minutes of idling thins morning.

We need details... car (brand, model, year), and relevant options like the engine, miles, type of oil it has used and uses now, any other details that might be relevant. Is it blowing smoke? If so, what color?

Could be rings, valve seals, or really bad PCV issue.
 

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
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Looks like carbon deposits of some kind, possibly your converter is partially clogging and the carbon deposits are getting mixed in with condensation trapped in your exhaust system and spew out when you first start the car. As for adding oil it also looks like there are some oil marks on your driveway from leakage so it could be a combination of leaking and burning. As far as leaks go some are simple fixes, the PCV valve already mentioned could be clogged up, oil pan gasket is bad or valve cover gasket is dried out, Worst case scenario is a rear main seal, (where the crankshaft exits the engine and mates withe transmission), if it's leaking from there it's not worth getting fixed at that high mileage as it's a big labor job on a FWD car. I would baby it along for a few months and try and save enough $$ for a newer car, if you've gotten 220K out of a vehicle without any major repair you've done fairly well.
 

JCH13

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Sep 14, 2010
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Oil? it's not carbon and water?

Derp. This is most likely the case ^

With 220k on the clock I wouldn't be surprised if you were seeing wear in the rings, valve guide seals, two main seals, and the oil pan gasket.

What's likely happening is that you're getting lots of carbon buildup because it's old as crap and likely needs a tune-up. When was the last time you replaced spark plugs, plug wires if applicable, etc? These carbon deposits are being dissolved and shoved out of your exhaust when condensation forms in your exhaust after start up (happens to every car).

Try a seafoam treatment for the carbon build-up, a tune-up to let it run better, and maybe look at cleaning or replacing the PCV equipment.

I don't know what maintenance you've done, but at 220k all of this stuff is long overdue IMO.
 

TheSiege

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Jun 5, 2004
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Those are old oil leaks. I can assure my car does not leak oil. It's being burned up somewhere. But not enough to cause white smoke. But enough to require adding more oil once a week.
 

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
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The only way to be sure is to crawl underneath and look around, sometimes oil will leak and just get absorbed by the crud under the car. In any event, answer JC13's questions as to what maintenance has been done to the vehicle and maybe we can get a better handle as to what's happening.
 

JCH13

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Sep 14, 2010
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Those are old oil leaks. I can assure my car does not leak oil. It's being burned up somewhere. But not enough to cause white smoke. But enough to require adding more oil once a week.

Could be leaking only when the car is hot and running and being lost on the road, caught by the under-tray, dripped onto the exhaust and burned...

Don't make such broad statements about having no oil leaks unless you've pressure-washed your whole engine compartment and monitor it regularly for new oil stains. I know my wife's MR2 has a small leak in it's oil pump gasket, but I have yet to see a single drop of oil on the garage floor: it gets burned up when it lands on the exhaust.
 

Zivic

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2002
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why is it idling for 20 minutes?

I would switch to a 10w30 or heavier oil with that amount of miles. some cars just use oil. My odyssey would use oil from day one -> about a qt every 6k. I switch to amsoil and consumption is better by at least half... so weight and type of oil can have an impact on how much it's using.

at 220k I wouldn't be overly concerned about it using oil if everything else seems OK
 

FuzzyDunlop

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Jan 30, 2008
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Looks like carbon. Seafoam that engine.

Plagiarized from Texas_Ace at mr2oc.com
I like to start with the water/washer fluid first. Find a vacuum line on or near the Throttle Body that will feed all the cylinders evenly. Make sure it is not only connected to 1 intake runner or offset on the intake manifold so it would only feed some of the cylinders. If that is your only option you need to find an equal port on the other side of the manifold.

You don't want the line to be too big. If it is too big you can get a small vacuum line and usually shove it into the bigger line and it will seal good enough for what we need. 1/4" line is a good size, slightly bigger or smaller is fine as well.

Now start the engine and drive it around to get it nice and hot. When you get back connect the vacuum line to the port you found earlier and stick it into the gallon of water. You will have to give the engine a lot of gas to keep it running but just let it keep sucking it down. I usually run the whole gallon through the car in 2 or 3 treatments, broken up by me beating the heck out of it before coming back for the next one.

After you finish the water go drive the car hard to clean it out.

Now time for the seafoam, this is like the water except you need to let the car sit between treatments. Just like the water hook up the vacuum line and get ready to rev the motor up to keep it running. Stick the line into the can of seafoam and try to keep the motor running till it sucks up about half the can for the first treatment. Then let it bog out and die. Now let it sit for half an hour or so. Longer is better, for the first few treatments though you don't really want to let the motor get all the way cold.

Now go out and restart the car, it will take a little bit to restart, put the gas to the floor while trying to start it tends to help. Once started you should have one heck of a smoke show. The more smoke, the dirtier the engine is. You can let it idle for a little bit and have fun revving it so you smoke out the neighborhood or go for a drive and leave long trails of smoke. At some point go out and flog the car before the next treatment.

Now repeat the earlier process except use about 1/3 of a bottle at a time from now on so it lasts longer. Keep doing this a few times, you will start to notice that you have less and less smoke the more treatments you do. It will get to a point where the amount of smoke stops improving, thats when it is about as clean as it will get right now.

I generally will do one last treatment at this point, heavier this time. I will then let it sit overnight.

Dump any left over seafoam or marvel mystery oil into the gas tank.

The next morning start it up and go for a nice long drive, get the oil up to temp and keep it there for a good 10-15 mins if possible to help clean the last of the junk out of the motor. Could go to work and do it when you get home or whatever. Just don't put that many miles on it before changing the oil.

Now change the oil, and make SURE you change the oil, after all of this you will have some water and seafoam in the oil for sure, it needs to be changed. Refill the oil check all the fluids and there you go. It should now run noticeably better.

I have had GREAT luck with this regime on all of my cars but you do this at your own risk!
 

JCH13

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Sep 14, 2010
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Related to what fuzzy pointed out (that you should seafoam it) your oil consumption might be due to rings that are stuck or dirty as a result of carbon buildup.
 

xBiffx

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Aug 22, 2011
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I wouldn't recommend Seafoam on a direct injection engine without a catch can. I don't think that's the case here but I'd thought I'd toss it out for people reading.
 
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FuzzyDunlop

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Jan 30, 2008
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I wouldn't recommend Seafoam on a direct injection engine without a catch can. I don't think that's the case here but I'd thought I'd toss it out for people reading.

You gotta change the oil and filter after. The oil will be black as [fill in joke yourself] after doing the treatment from all the carbon that breaks loose.

When I did it to my MR2 I still had carbon spitting, but not nearly as much as before.
 

xBiffx

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Aug 22, 2011
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You gotta change the oil and filter after. The oil will be black as [fill in joke yourself] after doing the treatment from all the carbon that breaks loose.

When I did it to my MR2 I still had carbon spitting, but not nearly as much as before.

Sure, but isn't the proper procedure to run the engine for a while after treatment? Without a can, that's surely going to do more harm than good. Pretty much defeats what the Seafoam is intended to correct, I would think.
 

Yuriman

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Jun 25, 2004
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Personally, I'd probably not seafoam a really old engine. OP may lose compression, develop new oil leaks, etc. by breaking up the carbon that's coating everything. The only real solution is a rebuilt/replacement motor.
 

JCH13

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Sep 14, 2010
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I wouldn't recommend Seafoam on a direct injection engine without a catch can. I don't think that's the case here but I'd thought I'd toss it out for people reading.

Why?

Sure, but isn't the proper procedure to run the engine for a while after treatment? Without a can, that's surely going to do more harm than good. Pretty much defeats what the Seafoam is intended to correct, I would think.

The Seafoam intake treatment is ESPECIALLY advisable on engines with DI because there is no fuel in the intake to keep the intake clean. Without a Seafoam treatment the intake manifold can experience severe carbon buildup from oil vapor that's not caught in a catch can.

Treating the engine oil with seafoam is also fine without a catch can. The carbon goes into solution with your engine oil and flushed out when the oil is changed. This is why seafoam suggests changing your oil as soon as it looks dirty.

Some oil vapor, possibly with extra carbon, might get into the intake. However, it shouldn't be much since the oil should be changed within 50-100 miles of seafoaming. Besides, this will get flushed out at the next intake seafoam treatment.

I, and many others, use Seafoam on DI engines without a catch can with no adverse effects. I'm on almost 5-1/2 years of seafoaming before nearly every oil chance on my MS3. In fact, the last time I forgot to seafoam it it started misfiring... seafoamed the intake and *poof* no more misfire. It really is good stuff.

Personally, I'd probably not seafoam a really old engine. OP may lose compression, develop new oil leaks, etc. by breaking up the carbon that's coating everything. The only real solution is a rebuilt/replacement motor.

I might not go as aggressive as the procedure fuzzy posted. However, I seafoam'd my first Miata's engine at 219k with great success. No leaks, great compression, ran like a top when I sold it too; and the next owner reported the same for the year or two he had it.

My point being that the $10 and an hour or two it takes to seafoam is probably worth a shot, as opposed to the thousands required to swap an engine in.
 

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
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Why?



The Seafoam intake treatment is ESPECIALLY advisable on engines with DI because there is no fuel in the intake to keep the intake clean. Without a Seafoam treatment the intake manifold can experience severe carbon buildup from oil vapor that's not caught in a catch can.

Treating the engine oil with seafoam is also fine without a catch can. The carbon goes into solution with your engine oil and flushed out when the oil is changed. This is why seafoam suggests changing your oil as soon as it looks dirty.

Some oil vapor, possibly with extra carbon, might get into the intake. However, it shouldn't be much since the oil should be changed within 50-100 miles of seafoaming. Besides, this will get flushed out at the next intake seafoam treatment.

I, and many others, use Seafoam on DI engines without a catch can with no adverse effects. I'm on almost 5-1/2 years of seafoaming before nearly every oil chance on my MS3. In fact, the last time I forgot to seafoam it it started misfiring... seafoamed the intake and *poof* no more misfire. It really is good stuff.



I might not go as aggressive as the procedure fuzzy posted. However, I seafoam'd my first Miata's engine at 219k with great success. No leaks, great compression, ran like a top when I sold it too; and the next owner reported the same for the year or two he had it.

My point being that the $10 and an hour or two it takes to seafoam is probably worth a shot, as opposed to the thousands required to swap an engine in.

While Seafoam has a well-deserved reputation I doubt that skipping one treatment resulted in a misfire, those are usually related to somewhere in the ignition system (assuming all the injectors are working normally). Actually I'm thinking of Seafoaming my car as it closes in on 95K miles, I do run Techron through the fuel system and change the oil when the OLM reaches 20% life left but the throttle body is probably due for a cleaning after 9 years.
 

JCH13

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Sep 14, 2010
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While Seafoam has a well-deserved reputation I doubt that skipping one treatment resulted in a misfire, those are usually related to somewhere in the ignition system (assuming all the injectors are working normally). Actually I'm thinking of Seafoaming my car as it closes in on 95K miles, I do run Techron through the fuel system and change the oil when the OLM reaches 20% life left but the throttle body is probably due for a cleaning after 9 years.

I had recently installed a new set set of OEM plugs, properly gapped, and I've got COP ignition... so no wires to replace. Ignition system was/is fine.

The MS3 runs REALLY rich under boost, down to nearly 9:1 AFR routinely. This can lead to serious carbon buildup, especially with my length of commute (0.8mi). Bear in mind that "one treatment" is 5kmi/6mo for me with this car. So it had about a year and 10k miles of short drives and rich fueling.
 

xBiffx

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Aug 22, 2011
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Some oil vapor, possibly with extra carbon, might get into the intake. However, it shouldn't be much since the oil should be changed within 50-100 miles of seafoaming. Besides, this will get flushed out at the next intake seafoam treatment.

This is the problem. Words like "possibly", "might", and "shouldn't" aren't convincing enough for most people. Also, most people aren't going to do this treatment more than 1 or 2 times.

I also have twin turbos on my DI engine so I'm definitely not going to be using this stuff.
 

JCH13

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Sep 14, 2010
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This is the problem. Words like "possibly", "might", and "shouldn't" aren't convincing enough for most people. Also, most people aren't going to do this treatment more than 1 or 2 times.

I also have twin turbos on my DI engine so I'm definitely not going to be using this stuff.

Just because people aren't convinced (namely you) doesn't mean anything.

What evidence do you have, besides speculation, that suggests that using seafoam in a DI engine without a catch tank is a bad idea?
 

xBiffx

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Aug 22, 2011
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Just because people aren't convinced (namely you) doesn't mean anything.

It means we aren't using seafoam, so I guess it does mean something.

What evidence do you have, besides speculation, that suggests that using seafoam in a DI engine without a catch tank is a bad idea?

None, I guess, other than anecdotal. What evidence do I need to not want to risk it? Considering it works by breaking up carbon and other deposits, and on a DI engine that means those are going right back into the engine that uses high pressure injection without a fuel rinse. Is it a stretch to think that that isn't a good thing unless you can eliminate them (via a can) first?

Also, like I said, I have turbos as well. Please don't try and tell me that seafoam is a good idea on my engine. Is it hurting you at all for me not to want to use or stand behind this product?
 
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