What constitutes good coffee?

Greyd

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Dec 4, 2001
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I only started drinking coffee regularly last year. i've always been confused as to what is considered good tasting coffee.


I HATE Starbucks coffee. Their speciality drinks are fine.
I LOVE Coffee Bean and Tea Leaf. Awesome tasting!!
I LOVE McDonalds coffee. Tastes great. Their iced coffee aint bad either.

I personally add a little creamer and then use Splenda. I like coffees that are smooth and clean tasting. I HATE the overoasted, burnt taste of coffee (eg Starbucks). I have heard old coffee tastes bitter. I have also heard that really good quality, fresh coffee is slightly sweet.

Is this what coffee "connosieurs" consider good and bad coffee?
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
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Good flavor and mouth feel, not overly bitter/burnt , and not wattered down make a good coffee,

cream and sugar should only be used when you are given bad coffee, Black is the way to go
 

AgaBoogaBoo

Lifer
Feb 16, 2003
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I like black coffee with nothing in it. The coffee at places like Starbucks or other coffee shops doesn't really appeal to me.
 

Greyd

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Dec 4, 2001
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Originally posted by: Anubis
Good flavor and mouth feel, not overly bitter/burnt , and not wattered down make a good coffee,

cream and sugar should only be used when you are given bad coffee, Black is the way to go

So clean, smooth and not burnt?
 

Greyd

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Dec 4, 2001
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Originally posted by: Deeko
good coffee - coffee that you enjoy drinking

?

Well that would be like saying good wine is wine that you enjoy. :p While that may be true - there can be SOME objective standards to taste.
 

glen

Lifer
Apr 28, 2000
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Well, a good espresso is usually a blend creating a balanced coffee - not too much body, fruit, acidity etc... You want to dampen any extremes.

A good coffee is the opposite - usually a single estate -hopping to have extremes of flavor.

In broad terms, indonesian coffee has an extreme body, Central Americans and Africans have extreme acid.

My favorite? Well, it would vary from year to year, but typically I find a single estate Kenyan to be the best in the world. Consistantly, your average Costa Rican or Guatemalan is also world class - particullarly single origin estate coffees from well know hasiendas, such as La Minita.
 

Descartes

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
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First off, adding creamer and then Splenda to a coffee won't allow you to determine if the coffee itself is good or not. You might be able to tell the difference between obvious faults (over-extracted, under-extracted, bitter, etc.), but the nuances of a good coffee won't be present.

That said, some sugar for some coffees is ok, because some are really sensitive to bitterness.

Now, as to what constitutes a good coffee:

1) Made from fresh beans. Fresh as in 2 weeks or less, on average. Fresh also means no oil on the beans. This is a common misconception. Oil on the bean is not fresh; it's the oils that you want in your coffee, not being oxidized from the surface.

2) Ground fresh right before brewing. Preground is never a good idea except under specific circumstances. Some packaging methods do help preserve preground, but after evacuating all the gas (generally nitrogen) from the container, it begins to stale very, very quickly.

3) Proper temperature. Too cold and it's under-extracted; too hot and you can over-extract. You can moderate this to some degree through extraction time, too hot or too cold will either lead to little flavor or generally a lot of bitterness.

So that's largely preparation method. If you're not preparing it yourself, you can generally tell by taste alone:

1) If it's too bitter, it's not good. A good coffee will have some bitterness because caffeine tastes bitter, but it won't be so insipidly bitter that you can't drink it. Espressos from the majority of coffee shops are not made properly, and you get a lot of bitterness and little else. Also, the roast of the bean will determine much of this. If you overroast the bean, then you literally roast away the coffee oils that help balance the bitterness; all that's left is the char taste of the roast and the bitterness. Nasty.

2) Smooth, generally medium body. The oils will leave a somewhat viscous sensation in your mouth, so it's less watery than you find with most coffees. It should have a heavier body than water or almost a syrup if you're brewing espresso.

3) You should be able to taste more than the roast (sometimes tastes like toast, nuts, bread, etc.). A good bean will have some dried fruitiness to it, sometimes floral, chocolate, carmel, etc. This depends on the bean, roast and preparation method, but the point is that it's more than just the roast and typical coffee flavor.

That's all that immediately comes to mind. I'm typing this fast, so I'm leaving out a lot of things. You also have to realize that taste is always subjective, and what constitutes a good espresso vs. a good drip are going to be vastly different; still, the basic ideas above hold true.
 

Anubis

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Aug 31, 2001
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Originally posted by: Greyd
Originally posted by: Anubis
Good flavor and mouth feel, not overly bitter/burnt , and not wattered down make a good coffee,

cream and sugar should only be used when you are given bad coffee, Black is the way to go

So clean, smooth and not burnt?

for me yes, everyones tasts is different, some people like drinking really strong bitter coffee

on a scale from 1 to 10 with 1 being tap water i like mine about an 8
i know people that drink it around a 15
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
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Well, you asked for the opinion of "coffee connosieurs", they are all going to tell you you are are an idiot and ruining your coffee by putting cream/sugar in it...and don't forget that anyone on ATOT that has so much smelled coffee will define themselves as "coffee connosieurs".

I have a giant thing of Maxwell House that I got at costco for like $6. I brew my own, I put some sugar in it. That is good coffee to me. *shrug*
 

Greyd

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Dec 4, 2001
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Originally posted by: Deeko
Well, you asked for the opinion of "coffee connosieurs", they are all going to tell you you are are an idiot and ruining your coffee by putting cream/sugar in it...and don't forget that anyone on ATOT that has so much smelled coffee will define themselves as "coffee connosieurs".

I have a giant thing of Maxwell House that I got at costco for like $6. I brew my own, I put some sugar in it. That is good coffee to me. *shrug*

That's why I asked. I know very little about coffee.
 

akshatp

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
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Whatever tastes good to you?? Why should someone else's opinion on cooffee make it good or bad? After all, you are the one drinking it. If a 10 cent cup of maxwell house tastes good to you, then that constitutes "good coffee"
 

Descartes

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
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Originally posted by: glen
Well, a good espresso is usually a blend creating a balanced coffee - not too much body, fruit, acidity etc... You want to dampen any extremes.

A good coffee is the opposite - usually a single estate -hopping to have extremes of flavor.

In broad terms, indonesian coffee has an extreme body, Central Americans and Africans have extreme acid.

My favorite? Well, it would vary from year to year, but typically I find a single estate Kenyan to be the best in the world. Consistantly, your average Costa Rican or Guatemalan is also world class - particullarly single origin estate coffees from well know hasiendas, such as La Minita.

Agree with pretty much everything you said. A quality Kenyan is excellent. I brew single-origin shots with it and I'm never disappointed. I like the sometimes extreme brightness of it though.

 

glen

Lifer
Apr 28, 2000
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If you are cupping coffee at a warehouse - you don't add cream or sugar, and you don't filter it, and you make it really really strong.

However, people have added things, such as cream to coffee since it was consumed.
I always have sugar and cream in my coffee.
 

Descartes

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
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Originally posted by: Deeko
Well, you asked for the opinion of "coffee connosieurs", they are all going to tell you you are are an idiot and ruining your coffee by putting cream/sugar in it...and don't forget that anyone on ATOT that has so much smelled coffee will define themselves as "coffee connosieurs".

I have a giant thing of Maxwell House that I got at costco for like $6. I brew my own, I put some sugar in it. That is good coffee to me. *shrug*

That's always the argument that people put forth in any consumable. You can apply the same argument to wine, tea, beer, any food, etc.

The reality is, there is a very distinct difference, and the coffee industry doesn't rest on false notions of quality marketed by the likes of Starbucks. While no one can tell you what you should find to be "good coffee", there are basic metrics (some of which I outlined) that will ultimately lead to a good or bad coffee. Those familiar with them can identify them in taste the same as someone educated in wine can tell faults.

In the end though, if you like the coffee/wine/tea/beer/food, faulty or not, then who cares? Still though, OP asked about absolute quality, not what's good to him, me or you.

imo.
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
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I understand Descartes. I wasn't trying to say "don't ask that question, idiot", at least that's not how I meant to come across. What I meant was just that many of the "experts" on AT aren't really experts, so if that's what you're looking for, be wary...and also that if he likes cheap coffee like McDonald's, more power to him.
 

rh71

No Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
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Originally posted by: Descartes
Still though, OP asked about absolute quality, not what's good to him, me or you.
Shouldn't there be a comma after "me"? I've often wondered about this and was taught yes.
 

Mucho

Guest
Oct 20, 2001
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I would rather drink the $1.24 a cup Tim Horton's than the $4.60 a cup Starbucks.
 

glen

Lifer
Apr 28, 2000
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You can find folks who quibble about Starbuck's coffee, but I honestly think it is actually quite good. When I am away from coffee I have roasted myself, I typically find Starbucks.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
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Connoisseurs of most things are mislead into thinking that their accepted standards are universal, which is ridiculous. Morals aren't even standard, and people expect the taste of good coffee to be!!!
 

BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
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My standards for coffee are set the same as for just about anything else: Good coffee is delicious, bad coffee tastes undelicious.
 

Descartes

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
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Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Connoisseurs of most things are mislead into thinking that their accepted standards are universal, which is ridiculous. Morals aren't even standard, and people expect the taste of good coffee to be!!!

You've missed the point entirely.
 

djheater

Lifer
Mar 19, 2001
14,637
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Originally posted by: Descartes
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Connoisseurs of most things are mislead into thinking that their accepted standards are universal, which is ridiculous. Morals aren't even standard, and people expect the taste of good coffee to be!!!

You've missed the point entirely.

I agree.

For anything we desire to rate we create standards based on consensus. Throckmorton, the implication of your position is that all measurements of quality are subjective, which simply isn't true. We can agree that some things are good and others bad, that's the basis for rating anything, food, coffee, wine, cigars, electronics....